Ninja story mode ON.

Logged in last night, hoping to see Guild Group 1 finish our Kara of last week. Seems silly to have 1 great day, with zero follow up. On the other hand, well… Thanksgiving!

Now, I was online, WITH the guild officers for the most part, until midnight the night before, running Heroic Slave Pens and chatting on TS.

One MIGHT think that, hey, I played with ‘em for hours until midnight, logged in right away next day… must be dialed in to the latest gossip, right?

As Oxhorn might say… ROFLMAO!!!

I log in. I pop into Teamspeak. (Does ANYONE use Blizzards’ built in voice chat? Anyone?) And I say “Hey guys, we finishing Kara tonight?”

And I get told that we’d see, our Raid Leader was talking to another guild about the Kara hax this weekend.

Ummm…. WTF you say?


And I hear… “Oh, hadn’t you heard?”

I swear… makes me want to slap the stupid out of people, sometimes. “No, I hadn’t heard. [sarcasm on] Apparently it wasn’t a topic of conversation for the two hours we farted around together last night in Slave Pens. So, like… can you tell me WTF is going on?”


Nutshell: Group 2 went into Kara last week. They went in several times, and by Saturday evening they had successfully cleared up to and INCLUDING Curator. They kicked ass and did a fine job.

Now, Group 2 is 100% guild member based, and last week three hardcore members of Group 1 ran with them to help out on the pulls and organization. In one case, there was a substitution within the guild when one person couldn’t go. So apparently there was a total of 11 guild members that had been in Kara Group 2 clearing bosses through Saturday night. The three of them from Group 1 were Levi, Guild Raid Leader Jops and Jayboi.

Well, Sunday night rolls around, and they go in to take down Illhoof. And there is a pile of skeletons in and just outside of Illhoof’s room. The group goes on to down Illhoof, after several shots at him, and the victory tastes sweet for them. And guess what? The tanking cloak that both I and Jops had wanted from Illhoof drops… but I’m not there, and Jops likes the new Badge cloak he bought better now. So sharded it goes.

On Group 2 treks, deeper into Kara. They have never gone this far, and finally they have the ‘free epics’ of Chess to look forward to. A nice little “Oooh, you made it this far, time for fun” interlude prior to Prince.

Except… the Chess event is already over. It’s already been completed, and looted.

What???? WTFHAXBBQ?


According to Jops, the way it breaks down is, one of the guys that had been in Kara last week in Group 2 decided to ‘share the Raid ID’ with another Guild, Green Dragonflight on Kael’thas… and the other guild attempted Illhoof and failed several times, before going on and doing Chess and looting the box.

My first thought was, “How the hell can that even happen?”

Well, it turns out to be fairly obvious… in hindsight.

When a group of folks enters the Karazhan instance, a Raid ID# is generated, and everyone currently in that group gets that ID# tagged to them. They are now ‘saved to instance’, and cannot go into Karazhan with any other group of folks that have been in already that week… cause their ID#s won’t match.

However, if someone has NOT been in Karazhan that week yet, they are free to come on in… and if they come in as part of the same group as the person that already has a Raid ID#… they all get assigned that Raid ID# also.

Now, you can see how it’s this way so that a Guild can swap people in and out of Karazhan groups based on what skills or abilities are needed for a specific fight, or based on needing a replacement for a single player who can’t make it one particular night. A guild might end up with 13 or 14 different characters that have all been involved in a single weeks’ Karazhan run.

The big hullabaloo about Tuesdays, is that it is the night the Raid ID#s are ‘reset’ for the entire server. Everyone’s number is wiped clean… and people can mix and match new combos of folks into runs, and the instances themselves are all fresh and new again and ready for looting.

It was my previous understanding that you could go into Karazhan with a group and clear ‘trash’ without having a Raid ID# set… that you were not officially ‘saved to an instance’ with a Raid ID# until a boss was downed.

In practise, I have found that just being in Karazhan and clearing trash HAS saved me to a Raid ID#. There have been occasions where I was tanking for Group 2, and we had not downed a boss yet… and Group 1 needed me to off tank… and I could not enter their instance as part of their group. So at what point exactly you become ‘saved to instance’ is still a bit unclear to me.

Where my assumptions got rocked, was that I had assumed there was some kind of threshold… that you needed a certain ratio of ‘saved’ raid ID#s in a group before you could add new people in. As I said, it was a partially formed assumption… the idea I had was that you needed, say, at least half the group be people that had already been saved to the instance in order to be able to add more folks in.

The reality is, all you need in a group is one person with a saved Raid ID from a partially complete run. And that one person, as soon as a party enters Karazhan, has just ‘shared the Raid ID’ with the rest of the group.

So someone from the successful Group 2 raid had, while still in the guild, gone to Green Dragonflight on our server, and got some of them to group with him to attempt the higher end content that Group 2 had cleared to. They attempted Illhoof, and sucked so bad they wiped multiple times trying to clear it…. but their skills were up for doing the Chess event. The fun, no stress, ‘easy epics’ event. And they did it.

Now, what guild was involved is well known and confirmed. That is the only reason I am posting the name. Our Raid Leader spoke directly to the GM of Green Dragonflight about this, in an attempt to find out exactly which one of our Group 2 members was the ‘traitor’. The GM of Green Dragonflight did not deny it happened, in fact the GM even brought the traitor directly into the conversation. A player in Green Dragonflight named Kaziral directly admitted to our Raid Leader Jops that it was HIS main in Legatum Ignavis that had been in Group 2 and ‘leaked’ the Raid ID# to his buddies in Green Dragonflight. But he refused to name what his Legatum character name was… the secondhand quote I heard, was that he told Jops… “I’m not gonna tell you my mains’ name… if you can figure it out, go for it. I’m not worried.”

Now, researching this kind of thing this morning, it surprises me how often this seems to be happening out there. It just blows my mind that an activity I think is clearly cheating, is so prevalent. I know that to get loot a raid still needs to down a boss… but the Chess event is so easy that I really think you could make a reasonable claim that it is ninja looting to let someone else make the progression to that point, and then swoop in, clear a few trash pulls, and do the Chess event for the loot.

What really stuns me is that there are that many people in a guild that, if approached about doing this, would say “Sure! Let’s go!”

If you assume the coldest scenario, then a member of Green Dragonflight said to his buddies, “Hey we cleared Kara past Curator in my mains’ guild. You guys wanna go into Karazhan and see if we can clear Illhoof and Chess?” and at least a few other guys said “Sure!”.

Personally, I would prefer to imagine that the person is really pissed at some interpersonal dynamic within Legatum, and approached his good friends in Green Dragonflight and told them, “Hey, those jerks have done this, this and this to me… it’s totally unfair and BS… can you help me teach them a lesson by going into Kara on their Raid ID# and snagging Chess loot?”

It wouldn’t be right, but at least it wouldn’t be a cold hearted and soulless betrayal of people who trusted you, for no other reason than boredom.


As far as I know, the only thing we as a guild want to see happen out of this is the identification and removal of the traitor from within our ranks. Jops had even stated he was not originally planning on kicking the person from the guild… he wanted to know who it was to talk to them… let them know that, if it was an accident and he thought it was safe to enter Karazhan with another guild, that it was not appropriate guild behavior, and doing it again would result in a /gkick.

But now, after personally speaking with Kaziral, it’s pretty clear… we want to know who this guys’ main is, and boot his butt out.

Sadly, Blizzard has not shown any interest in helping. A long chat with a Blizzard GM yesterday resulted in that GM stating that they would not reveal who was in the group with Green Dragonflight from our guild sharing the ID#. So we seem to be blocked from doing more than either dropping he issue, or starting some kind of ‘witch hunt’ that would cause divisiveness and drama, and only succeed in putting a big smile on the corpse of McCarthy.

I find myself saddened that there are really that many… asshats, for lack of a better term, that would do this kind of thing. I mean, it’s not like anyone is sitting here wailing and nashing teeth over lost epics, or crying ‘ninja’!. If there are really that many people wanting to screw over others, well, they have to live with themselves, I certainly don’t. They inconvenienced members of our guild for a few days. They have to live with being asshats for their entire lives… Sucks to be you. I win.

And I’m not alone in not getting too worked up about the whole thing. As Clint Eastwood said in one of the greatest Corps movies of all time… (even if it does co-star a rocked out Mario van Peebles).. Don’t give the prick the satisfaction… sir.

I wish I could find a resource that would let me look up all the names of a players’ characters on one account… find out who Kaziral’s other alts are, get it over and done with. But barring that… there will always be that little uncertainty now, wondering which one it might have been.

The whole thing just saddens me greatly. Why would anyone want to have that kind of reputation? Is having a couple pieces of epics and a couple Badges of Honor really worth the drama and reputation? Or if you did it for some kind of ultra-cowardly version of revenge, a stealth revenge, did it feel as good as you hoped? And what about all the people who were once IN that guild? There are only so many players on any server… and only so many end-game guilds. A fair number of damn good folks are ex-members of Green Dragonflight… and I doubt if any of them would appreciate having a reputation of having once been in a guild of ninjas… I just find it hard to believe that an entire guild was ‘in on it’… but on the other hand, some of them certainly, self-admittedly, were. And enough of them were to attempt Illhoof, so it wasn’t just two or three guys doing Chess event.

Just blows my feeble little mind.

24 Responses to “What do you mean, it was looted already? Ninja’d???”
  1. Waradwen says:

    Whoa. That puts the jerks in my guild who sign up for raids and then don’t show up into a little perspective. I hope that the loot was worth it to him/her, but I can’t imagine that it was.

  2. Ferocious Bite says:

    Sorry to hear about this. That realy sucks. I would suggest putting Kaziral’s name in your friends list and watch to see what member in your guild logs in/out whenever Kaziral logs out/in. After 2-3 times of seeing Kaziral has logged out and then seeing JoeAsshat has logged in, you’ll know it’s JoeAsshat. Unfortunately, it might take a few days or even weeks of watching to figure it out, but eventually, you’ll know. Also, if you think he might come to your blog, delete this comment so he won’t know you’re watching.

  3. Langalore (Duskwood) says:

    OK – so here’s how the raid IDs work and why you were probably saved from just clearing trash.

    Let’s say group 1 goes in Tuesday night, downs 1 boss. You come in Wed night with them… the MOMENT you zone in to the instance, you now have their raid ID. The particular night does not matter as long as 1 boss has been downed for the week.

    Now, here’s how your guild member could have shared his raid ID and no one would be the wiser. Let’s say he groups with someone from Green dragonflight. Let’s call your member J (since you guys have so many J names). J is safely in Shatt, checking his bank… you all see him checking it, you’re on TS with him. Meanwhile, he’s grouped with a GD member who is in deadwind pass… the GD member zones in, how has your raid ID.

    They ungroup, and the GD member gets 10 people together and zones in – they ALL have your raid ID now. That’s how it works unfortunately.

    The thing that prevents this from happening accidentally is that you need to be in a designated raid group to zone into kara – so they HAD to know what they were doing.

  4. Alex - aka Firelight says:

    That sucks! :(

    But as Ferocious Bite says, just add Kaziral to you friends and watch his/her movements and who logs onto your guild – best watch “catch” them.

    Especially if its his main thats in your guild.

  5. brian says:

    That is indeed pathetic and despicable. I joined Green Dragonflight for about 2 weeks while leveling because they said they were a raiding guild…and then found out that they raid Kara once a week. On Sunday. Come on kids, that’s not a raiding guild. My wife and I got out of the guild after we realize what a massive pack of noobs they are, and this just confirms it. They have zero serious raiding prospects, so go figure that they’d resort to this for loot.

    It doesn’t surprise me in the least that they would need to ninja somebody else’s instance to get drops in Kara, and it surprises me even less that they couldn’t down Illhoof. Go figure, a shitty guild with shitty players behaves in a shitty fashion.

    You reap what you sew, Green Dragonflight. Any guild leader or raid leader with a shred of integrity would decline such disrespectful behavior because they simply wouldn’t want one of their guildies to go and burn them like this. The fact that the people in your guild are willing to do this should tell you something about what to expect in the future. Don’t be surprised if you walk into Kara in the future, if you ever start downing anything with consistency, and find the loot pinata you were busting your balls for is gone and looted!

  6. Kirk says:

    Sent you a letter with methods to search, but a couple of comments need public.

    First, I think you’re wrong, you do need to pursue this. Not because of the guild loot. There are 11 suspects – well, 8 really. 7 of them are going to be wrongly viewed as thieves until the guilty person is identified. They’ve had their reputations stolen – completely ruined – with no way to recover it on their own. Some members of your guild (inevitably) will not be able to refrain from treating some or all of the suspects with, well, suspicion – refusing to group with them, petty verbal jabs, etc. If it’s not fixed, you’ll see some of them quit — possibly not just the guild but the server or even the game. It’s just a game and they DO NOT NEED that kind of stress.

    One public possibility. The person may have gotten one of the Kara drops. Check your guild on wowjutsu.com. The last 20 “point drops” are shown to include the date they were obtained. If one of the eight is on the list as getting a kara drop on that date… I’d say that’s pretty conclusive.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Some Guild Officer needs to write down all 11 names. Then keep Kaziral on his buddy list. Every time that character is online cross off people who are online also. Might take a while but it will work.

  8. Ratshag says:

    One: What a suckfest. Really sorry it happened to you and yer guild, BBB.

    Two: Agrees with Kirk – all the innocent parties is named “mud” until the ninja can be found and kicked. And they don’t deserve that.

    Three: A serious investigation to determine the identity of the evildoer, when you already has proof exactly one evildoer exists, ain’t a witchhunt. So no joys for Macarthy.

    Four: If the ninja ain’t found and kicked, what’s to keep him from pullin’ the same crap again?

  9. Xian says:

    One other thing that might work if the offender got any of the chess drops it may show up on http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/kaelthas/Legatum%20Ignavis

  10. Anonymous says:

    Keep in mind that is may not be one of the 11 who were supposed to be on that Raid ID.
    All it would take is someone else, in your guild or not, throwing one of the raiders an invite, and then zoning in to Kara.
    Could be real fast, so fast you might not even notice it is a raid, before they say “oops, sorry” and drop the group.
    I, for one, wouldn’t think much of it, and generally accept group invitations from guildies – even if only to ask “/p what’s up – why the stealth invite?”

  11. Teni says:

    You *DO* realize you will need to vet out your traitor. Green Dragonblight may be scuzzy for their behavior, but you have another very serious problem: Until your traitor is identified, YOUR guild name is tainted because others will know that you have a traitor in your midst.

    By the way, don’t forget that these days people can pay to have their character names changed, too. It’s Blizzard’s official witness protection program; just before, it used to take moving to another server (and creating a level 1 of your old name there to force a name change).

  12. Girl Meets WoW says:

    I’d chime in with the same method of friending and tracking Kaziral’s movements, but with one caveat: that totally won’t work if he’s a two-boxer with multiple accounts. I’d don’t know how common that is in general, but my guild 5 or 6 these days.

  13. brian says:

    Teni- I don’t think paid name changes are active on Kael’Thas yet.

  14. Heather says:

    The raid ID thing that everyone mentioned is not entirely true. The only way to share that raid ID is if THEY zone in first. If someone unsaved to Kara zones in, and the thief zones in after, they would be in two separate instances.

    Unless Blizz changed things in Burning Crusade, this was verified several times with our raid leader wanting to bring an alt for specific boss drops we had on farm.

    And I agree you need to track down who this is. It really does leave a taint on the innocent. Just imagine if you’d been in that group. *You* know you’re innocent, but does everyone else? You hope they do but…what proof is there?

    /end lecture

    I’ve been enjoying your blog, having followed it over from BRK, keep up the amusing anecdotes!

  15. Lalecize says:

    Hey BBB. Don’t suppose you use guild portal?

    Often people add all their characters under their profile on there (even if they are in a different guild, you can view them through clicking on their name).

    Look for your bad apple from GD there…may work.

    Nice blog btw…been reading for a while :)

  16. langalore (duskwood) says:

    Heather – if they zone in and THEN group, you’re correct.

    However, if they’re already grouped and in a “raid” – then all the other person has to do is zone in and they’re saved.

    Not sure I can explain the difference properly.

  17. Jops says:

    I am not sure what to do about this situation. I have gone several routes to try and identify the traitor with no luck. I have come to the conclusion that the GM from GD (who BTW was in on the scam) is covering up the information needed for me to correctly identify anyone. This doesn’t surprise me one bit. He logs into WoW and the first thing he does is ask me if I have found out who it was yet. Why would he be so interested????????

    As for Kaziral, he was added to friends and after watching him there isn’t anything suspicious going on yet. He did state that it was him who did it but my searches have come up empty handed. I know of 8 people from their guild who were in on this and I am not sure if most of them new what was going on. Don’t get me wrong here they knew the raid was ninja’d but I don’t think they were all in on it.

    The only thing that really bothers me about the whole situation is the lack of assistance from WoW administration. So basically they support the actions of the traitor by not helping with this!! I was told and I quote “We can not give that information to you as we need to keep peoples identity safe.” This came after my third attempt to speak with administration.

    The situation will most likely not come up again since everyone knows that we are continuing to investigate and that we take these actions serious in our guild.

  18. Halite says:

    Have you tried reviewing the list of ‘suspect’s on warcraftrealms.com? Also, if you want some really inventive ways of tracking someone, contact Foton of AFK Gamer. He has mad skillz in this stuff.

    Perhaps you’ll find a link between guildings for the known character and the others.

    Good luck and I sympathize.

  19. Saylah says:

    First time poster and will keep it short. 1. you must find your traitor. 2. sorry this happened. 3. Foton at AFK Gamer does have mad skillz at rooting out ninjas emos and dramaqueens. 4. love the blog.

  20. Anonymous says:

    You may be able to find out the identity of this person by putting Kaziral on /ignore. Your ignore list squelches an entire account, not just one character.

    So, put Kaz on ignore, then watch guild chat with a buddy. If buddy can see someone talking and that person’s text never shows up for you, I think you have your traitor.

  21. Anonymous says:

    This blog is a waste of words :(

  22. BigBearButt says:

    LOL at Anonymous…

    Interestingly enough, I addressed your concerns in this post, dated months ago. Enjoy!

    http://bigbearbutt.blogspot.com/2007/09/why-i-do-that-thing-i-do.html

  23. […] original post is right here, where I describe the entire situation, of the raid going into the second night of Karazhan, only […]

  24. […] Now, you can all be forgiven for having NO EARTHLY IDEA what I’m talking about. But that’s okay, because thanks to the miracle of the internet, you can either read my recap which follows immediately after these three links, or you can read the original posts themselves starting with the following post… made on November 27th of 2007. […]

  25.  

World of Warcraft™ and Blizzard Entertainment® are all trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment in the United States and/or other countries. These terms and all related materials, logos, and images are copyright © Blizzard Entertainment. This site is in no way associated with Blizzard Entertainment®