Well, I’m annoyed. Something that I had grown to enjoy has now been, effectively, ruined for me in the game.
I’m talking about fighting the giant trees in Skettis.
Now, I’m gonna recap what happened, and then I’m gonna do my obligatory QQ about it. I wanna say up front, that this post isn’t really about anything Blizzard has done, though… it’s just the players we game with. Our so-called ‘community’.
I’ve talked about this before… how I had been in the habit of doing sweeps with my Druid through the various zones, herbing in Swift Flight Form and sending the metric tons of herbs off to Cassie to make elixirs and flasks for fun and profit.
But I had heard that some folks enjoyed taking on the giant trees in Skettis, the Talonsworn Forest-Ragers, killing them, and then herbing them for piles of good high level herbs.
Some research showed me that they also had the best drop rate chance for Black Lotus, the main ingredient in Flasks of Supreme Power.
So I carried myself over to Skettis, and gave tanking them a try. And found that, not only did I successfully take them down and get good herbage each time, but that I enjoyed the fight itself, because it was a clear indication that my gear was pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. And that made me quite happy. Honestly, if it wasn’t for the Black Lotus drop rate, I’d probably not have killed them so often, but put that plus the fun of the fight together, and it was a nice way to farm herbs while actually enjoying the game. MUCH better than mindless circling of zones looking for gold dots on a mini-map, even if it took a lot longer to get the same amount of herb.
Well, last night I have bid a sad farewell to the trees. I won’t be wasting my time going back there again.
Earlier in the week, Whirlish told me that he had been killing the trees, and after he downed one, he went to herb it and got the Herb loot window displayed… and then the herbs vanished. He looked around in shock, and saw a Hordie standing there, who had somehow herbed the tree after he had already started… and taken the herbs that HAD been displayed in his window.
Now, okay, we play Alliance, and a Horde came up on a downed tree when Whirl wasn’t looking, and herbed it from under him. Whirl doesn’t roll with autoloot enabled, so fine. Lesson learned. From now on, enable autoloot.
It did disturb me that Whirl described the situation as being a case where he had already initiated and completed herbing, had the loot window displayed, and only after that did the herbs disappear. It wasn’t me there, so who is to say? But if that had been true, then that tells me someone else can successfully herb a tree even after you start it, IF the other person hasn’t been quick enough to grab the loot.
A heads up if other herbalists have known this for a while… it does NOT work like that on Mining. If you mine a node, and someone else is mining the same node in competition to you, then the first one to open the loot window ‘wins’… the other gets an error message.
Silly me, I expected the same thing on herbs. Not that it would seem to make much difference, in the long run.
So, that’s the story Whirl told me. He killed a tree, looted it, herbed it, and got the herbs taken from him by a Hordie. Haha, didn’t have autoloot on, well played. Lesson learned, move on. Sucks to be you, Whirl.
You think you know what’s coming, don’t you? I know you do. 
Cut to last night. Cassie needs herbs, and I am running on short time before I need to go to Kara. I’m already in Skettis. What the heck? Let’s hunt for trees for 10 minutes.
I find a tree right away… I down it just as fast. I look around… no one in sight. I loot it, I herb it… I get the herb loot display window… I see the herbs… the Mana Thistle and Motes of Life vanish, but the autoloot hangs up on the Ancient Lichen… then the Ancinet Lichen vanishes. Just a hiccup, like you might see in a lag spike.
I glance at my chat tab… and see the only loot I got was the Ancient Lichen. No Motes of Life, no Mana Thistle. I only got half the loot from my herbing. I wheel around, and sure as shit, appearing in the middle of what WAS the body of the tree is a figure standing there in herb loot animation… that kind of scrunched over, wringing hands posture we know so well. I just got my herbs ninja’ed… WHILE AUTOLOOT WAS ENABLED.
So I whisper the asshat ‘OMIGOD you just ninja’ed the herbs? WTF?!’
That’s right, I whispered him… because he wasn’t Horde screwing with Alliance… he was a fellow Alliance. I got screwed by one of our own.
He lol’ed me in reply, whispered me to ‘look around next time nub’, and flew off.
Now, don’t get me wrong. He wasn’t talking about looking around because he was getting ready to take on the tree, and I jumped in and stole the kill. He wasn’t anywhere around when I started. I did check. In a 4 minute fight, how the hell do you stop someone from flying by, and then seeing what you’re doing and jumping in?
So yeah, Kael’thas (US) has a wonderful Alliance player named Jimyon in the guild Judgment that is an asshat. Newsflash, whoopie shit. If I had a dollar for every asshat I encountered in open areas in the game, I wouldn’t have a day job. It’s why I don’t pug, and why I typically don’t group with strangers or go into well-populated areas.
Say hello to Jimyon, everyone! Smile for the camera!
Anyway, what blew my mind was that autoloot didn’t prevent the herbs from being ninja’ed!
Holy shitski! Stop the press!
So I do something totally out of character for me. I make an announcement in /1 General chat in Terokkar to watch out for Jimyon, he is waiting for you to loot the skettis trees, and then ninja’ing the herbs.
And, the game and the people playing it being what it is, I get zero sympathy. Instead, I get a nice build up of ‘QQ more’ posts, ‘only whiners play Alliance’… ‘Alliance are crybabies…’, ‘just move on, nub’.. etc.
And as I get ready to fly away from the area, Jimyon, apparently thinking the response I got indicated no one cared about someone getting ninja’ed, pipes in, saying ‘yeah nub, i ninja’ed your herbs, go whine some more’.
Now, I don’t know about your play experience in the game, but I have found that the people who automatically assume that anyone who complains is a liar or whiner, and will GLADLY tell everyone so in General chat, are the same people that will, when confronted with the person who did the deed openly admitting it and bragging about it, wheel on that person with a vicious intensity and open fire.
So did it happen here. The tone of the comments went from ‘QQ more’ to ‘burn in hell you immature little asshat ninja’ in about .3 seconds. And the kid just didn’t get why. He started throwing around the ‘all you nubs are whiners’, and ‘you are all fat nerds that live with mommy’ stuff… and when inevitably people started talking about how sad the little kids who play the game are these days, of course he denied he was a kid. Jeez, someone needs to write a manual for these kids in school, I swear.
Granted, he might not have been a kid. He might have been an older person whose growth was simply emotionally arrested at the age of 12, or stupid. That’s fine, too. If you are stupid, you can’t exactly help it. Ignorance can be cured… stupid is forever.
But honestly, some kids you can just tell… it’s not lack of intellectual capacity; it’s willful ignorance, selfishness and a lack of caring that anyone else may experience emotions. If anything, the thought that they just ‘got someone’ may give them a thrill of power in their otherwise powerless lives.
A manual SHOULD be written, really. In it, the first chapter could say, ‘When you accuse others of things to hurt them or insult them, you often draw unknowingly on the things that hurt you or bother you about your own life, things that you know cause you pain. It is natural to use these painful experiences to attack an opponent, expecting the other person to experience similar pain to your own. This speaks very tellingly to viewers as to your current mental state, and what problems or fears are dwelling on your mind.
In short… if your first response when angry is to accuse other people of being “fat nerds that live in basements in moms’ house with no lives”, and you yourself speak at a sub-literate level, act immature, and are playing the exact same video game as everyone else… well, let’s face it. I think we know what’s on the guys’ mind. Oh yeah, and let me go out on a limb here… and say that I think this also applies to anyone that accuses another person in General chat of being a virgin and never having had sex before. Let’s face it, you don’t know the person, you have no way of telling what they are like… but when you are acting and talking like an immature 14 year old, I think we know why the subject of virgins and not having sex is foremost on your mind. /agree?
Anyway, I have digressed. I’m reading it over, yeah I got sidetracked, but I don’t disagree with anything I said so screw it… maybe someone will laugh.
So recap the recap… I told folks about Jimyon of Judgment on Kael’thas (US), and got laughed at… he came into the conversation, admitted it and lol’ed at me, and got reamed.
Now, there were a couple funny bits there. My favorite, and a situation that never ceases to surprise me, was when Jimyon was gloating over ninja’ing the herb, calling us all nerds and stuff, and telling us to ‘cry more, whatever lols’, you know the deal. And someone asked in General, “Windshadow, don’t you write a blog?”.
I will never get used to having people that I don’t personally know, or people outside my guild, know that I have a blog and mention it in game. Still trips me out bigtime. But in a good way.
I reply back that, yes, yes I do, and that Jimyon has made #1 on the next days’ “What the heck do I talk about today” list.
And Jimyon, god bless his stupid little 12 year old oblivious head, starts telling us that it doesn’t matter that he’s gonna get written up, go ahead and suspend his account for an hour, he’ll be right back in skettis as soon as he can log back in.
LOL!!!!
I’m sorry, but nothing pegs an emotional age better than being that clueless. Who in their right mind would ever think that any BS on some dipshits’ blog is going to somehow magically get you banned from the game, for ANY length of time? Hell, I didn’t even bother reporting him to a GM, for Elunes’ sake.
As far as I know, he exploited a bug that’s letting multiple people herb the same drop and get access to the loot. It’s not like he physically hacked my system. And I don’t report people just for being obnoxious. It’s his life, he can deal with the trainwreck of his immaturity when he decides to grow up. I’ll be damned before I give him more fuel for his ‘oh owe is me it’s so unfair’ angst meter by reporting him for general asshattery.
But let’s move on. Cause we ain’t over yet. 
I see the reaming Jimyon is getting in General, I search Skettis to find him, and I take a few screenshots for fun. Man, did that annoy him, having me buzz around him taking pictures. lol.
I just now decided to look good old Jimyon up, just for fun. You’ll see why later. It turns out that Jimyon transferred to the Kael’thas server at level 60, from Aggramar, and he has been guild hopping ever since. He was in a different guild just a week ago, and many more before that. No wonder he lol’ed at me, he bounces around like a tried and true loot ninja. As soon as one guild figures his ass out, off he goes to another. Not exactly the kind of person who is going to care about his reputation… because the blame doesn’t ever rest with him. It’s everyone ELSE that sucks. I am laughing sooo hard right now.
Anyway, really, time to move on.
As I’m heading out of Skettis, I happen to see another tree. What the hell, I say to myself, I’ll take him. I figure, either I’ll get the loot, or I’ll get a better screenshot while operation: asshat ninja herb is in action.
Either way, win!
I take down the tree, and as he goes down, I catch a glimpse of a blue blur on the far side of the body. then it’s gone. And I swear, I SWEAR that what I saw was someone actually ducking INTO the dead body of the prone tree.
Now, I think about it for a minute. Seriously. Did I just see someone approach the tree body from the far side and move into it, out of view? Is someone really in there, feverishly clicking away hoping to herb the millisecond I loot the trash?
Well, I still have time before Kara. Let’s see what happens if I sit here a while. This is fascinating. Am I imagining things? Is there someone in there?
And I wait, chatting on TS all the while. And I wait. At least three minutes pass while I sit there, circling the tree to view it from all sides. I can see NO sign of anyone in the tree. But I am patient. A little time in the Marines helps you develop a bit of patience, when faced with the prospect of ambushing someone.
Five minutes pass. And there he is!
The little asshat WAS hiding in the tree! He finally lost his patience and ducked outside to see what I was doing! Ah HA!!! Gotcha! Screenshot for the win!
Everyone, say hello to potential herb thief number two… Troll Shaman Mechanized, from the guild “The Rapture”.
Remember Jimyon, and his server transfer from Aggramar server? Guess what? Mechanized was first seen on January 14th, 2008 on my server. Can you say ANOTHER ninja server transfer to escape a sordid past? This time, the transfer was from the Eldre’thalas server.
I feel bad for his guild, I don’t play Horde but I’ve heard good things about The Rapture. I hope they keep an eye on him and the guild bank, is all I’m saying.
Now, Mechanized doesn’t really bother me at all. To be honest, it was Skettis, he was Horde, I’m Alliance. Whatever. That is a totally different situation in my mind than some little same-faction asshat being a dick, and gloating about it.
Of course, welcome to the joys of server transfers. Hmmm… what are the odds that I get two herb ninjas, and BOTH are recent server transfers? Seriously, thanks Blizzard. Can you help them change their name to make sure we have no way of tracking ninjas by reputation? Plskthxbi? Oh yeah, you did that too. Thanks a lot.
But yeah, so Mechanized peeks out and I bust him. And he knows because I take pleasure in standing on top of him and doing the bear dance with him in the tree for a couple minutes.
But he’s not leaving… or moving. And that makes me wonder… is he still sitting there, frantically clicking away in the hopes that I’ll loot the tree so he can snag the herbs? He’s got over 8 minutes invested in this by now… the tree has GOTTA be about to despawn… has he given up, or is he really that dedicated? He can’t know when I plan to loot… I have initiative, he is in a reactive posture. So is he clicking? And if so, CAN he beat someone that moves as fast as possible to loot and herb, when he doesn’t know when that is going to happen?
I was going to just let the tree rot, but now I want to know.
So I dance… and then I loot and herb. And before I even start a full second into the herb cycle, he has completed herbing, grabbed the herbs and is starting his mounting animation.
I mean, seriously, that fast. I right clicked autoloot, the loot window displayed, the trash went into my bag, I got the herb icon on the tree body, I clicked and .2 seconds into herbing, the body faded, the Troll /lol’ed, and he started mounting. That fast.
So the lesson I carried away is, if you commit to fight a tree, there is right now absolutely NO WAY to enusre that you get to loot the herbs from the body if someone else feels like taking them from you.
And that ruins the tree farming experience for me, now. I don’t mind the ganking from cross faction, but I refuse to be a sucker for some punk Alliance asshat too lazy to take down his own trees.
I was grabbing far more herbs in a much shorter time flying, anyway. It’s just more boring, darn it!
But yeah… it is a good night when I get so much blog fodder, but I feel sad at the passing of my innocent joy in taking down the trees.
Entries (RSS)
January 23rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I herb one occasionally but exalted on my Herbilist alt so I tend to not to go to skettis so much.
By habit I allways shift loot and straight away shift herb. Just in case. Last time, sure enough their is another alliance hiding inside the corpse. I would have been very annoyed if he had beaten me.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Holy crap, 8 minutes? That guy earned those herbs. I mean I’m not saying you didn’t, and I still think he’s a complete waste of life, but that takes some dedication. And stupidity. He could’ve picked a whole handful of nodes in that time. The stuff from the tree is, at best, a consolation prize for his failure to understand basic farming efficiency.
I’m really sad to hear that this kind of thing is possible, because my mate is just getting her first 70 herbalist her last experience bars now, and I was looking forward to seeing what was inside some of those trees.
Hopefully Blizzard will become aware of this problem and resolve it in a decent time period. I won’t hold my breath, but sometimes they fix stuff.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Honestly, I don’t think we’ll see a change from Blizzard with this. Herbing a tree uses the same logic as skinning a beast. Blizzard doesn’t “tap” the kill to the killer specifically so other skinners (herbalists) can clean up after a non-skinner (herbalist).
Maybe we’ll see the “locked while looting” business you get with mining, but remember… even mining has people fighting over a node. You might get the first load of ore, but if someone else clicks first they can get the 2nd load.
As for that troll, I would have looted the corpse but left one item on the tree. Then flew off…
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
That’s why you should be on a PvP server so you could smoke that troll and then loot your tree =D
But as for the alliance character, when you call them a kid and they’re anywhere from 15 and on they will deny they are a kid since they probably consider themselves to be a young adult. Also, they could still be in their early 20s as I have known people that age that have the same immaturity problems. Oh well. /sigh, move on, and hope you ever have to deal with them again.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I’ve noticed this same problem in SSC with looting the big bog looking things (can’t recall their names). Last night, a guildie and I were having a friendly race over who could ninja the herbs first. ;p I think we came out about even in the end.
I don’t like that herbing bodies is a ‘free for all’. I understand it’s like skinning and the body is not attached to the killer, but if you’ve herbed it and have the window open and see you’re lovely herbs just waiting for you, they should be yours! I’d be far less bothered if the herb animation happened and then got the ‘this object is busy’ message.
January 23rd, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Heh, now that was a really entertaining read! I feel sorry for you I have to say. I know what it’s like, because it’s the same deal (as Dorgol said) for skinners and beasts. Essentially, the corpse becomes skinnable to all players once you have finished looting the initial drop.
There’s sometimes a bit of a lag-delay between the initial loot and the time it takes for your UI to realise that the corpse is now skinnable. If the ninja’s UI shows the corpse is skinnable before yours does, there’s not much you can do.
However, I find that sometimes it’s better to not auto-loot the original drop, just open the loot window, click the items individually, and when you click the very last item start spamming right-click on the corpse - this minimises the risk of losing the skinning (or herb) loot to the ninja. It doesn’t give you a guarantee of getting the loot, but it can help
Anyway, on another note - I just wanted to say well done for the great work on this blog
Boshanka
Feral Druid
(Azjol-Nerub EU)
January 23rd, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Ninja looting like that is annoying enough when it’s the opposite faction, but when it’s the same? Rude. Just have to hope that what comes around goes around.
Interesting and surprising how the channel turned so fast on him once he spoke up. By now, I’ve come to expect jerkfaces like this to be celebrated for garbage like this. For example, people are celebrating this guild bank thief, talking about what a genius he is for impersonating a guild officer and then ripping off the bank. Yeah, it wasn’t a smart move to give him permissions without verifying who he was, but I just can’t get over the way this asshole maneuver (that he will no doubt continue to attempt with other guilds) is being praised. Wonder how those folks would feel if it were their guild bank that was robbed.
January 23rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
The attack against the ‘fat, virgin, nerds living in their mothers basement’ is a sure sign of immaturity and an adolescent mind. I’m gonna guess someone between the ages of 14-20 simply because social acceptance and belonging are central to their high school/college existence. We’d have the same thing happen when I was playing tabletop wargames. Young college aged guys would get into the game in order to beat up on the other fat nerds. Of course the asshats don’t realize that their behavior is far more pathetic.
What really sucks is that life hasn’t grabbed these asshats by the short and curlies enough yet for them to realize that their antics are wasting someone elses spare time. Time that they fight, scratch and bargain for. The real crime of gold sellers and character sellers isn’t that it deprives Blizz of revenue, but it provides asshats an easy entrance into the game. If they all had to level up from 1 and earn every gold, they’d leave the game by level 20 out of frustration. (that may be my delusion though, lol)
January 23rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
While playing on a PvP server, this kind of cross-faction looting is not uncommon. I’ve done it myself a few times, though I don’t think I can be fully blamed. When I have my mind set to gather X amount of a certain herb and some Alliance punk is out there also gathering, I tend to turn into that emperor from the Dark Crystal and begin to scream “MINE! MIIIIINE! AHHHHHH!!!”. I can’t help it, it’s a condition.
Although same faction ninja-looting is just wrong. Tell him to transfer to Agamaggan. My swift riding wolf wouldn’t mind another Paladin-shaped treat.
January 23rd, 2008 at 5:24 pm
I ran into the exact same problem the other day when a same-faction ninja stole my Thick Clefthoof Leather. I saw him standing around when I approached the Clefthoof Bull, waited a few seconds to see if he was going to engage, and when he didn’t I went ahead and pulled/killed/looted. When I went to skin, nothing there. ?? I’m confused now. Then when the body disappears, he is standing right inside it. I busted his chops over it and the response I got was ‘I wanted it too.’ I suppose that’s all fine and good, but I tagged the mob, I did all the killing, and you want the loot? That’s just wrong.
January 23rd, 2008 at 5:48 pm
On the SSC looting comment..
I know all the herbys in my guilds SSC runs. They do a /roll and the winner gets all the herbs.
We usually have upwards of 10 herbalists, so not everyone walks away with herbs.. but theres no ninjaing goin on.
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Yeah i had the killer tree issue happen too. Not fun. My understanding is that it’s the best source of Ancient Lichen though. But, yeah I hate skettis. Hate it. I think we are lucky on Blackwater Raiders that not everyone is an ass-hat, but how many does it take? Just one. I guess i really dont understand the mentality of the ninjas. You are going to circle and circle and hope somebody kills the tree for you so you can maybe ninja it? Isn’t there a better use of your time?
Nowadays I only go into Skettis when its early in the morning here (ie 7am), there are only a handful of people there. I’ll usually do the egg drops, do the prisoner, kill a few trees, and I’m out of there before the general population is up. I figure (mostly correctly) that the asshats don’t get up early in the morning because they dont have to make a living.
I find doing the dailies for 30 min is a great way to spend the morning before work though.
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Where is my SS I’ve ninja’d you before… Passive agressive PVP on a PVE server is great. Keep on downing those trees so I can loot you herbs.
January 23rd, 2008 at 6:22 pm
TriB,
That really ticks me off. If you find their real address, I’ll go over there and plant a tree up his ASS!
I hate people like that. I loathe them with a passion. I start thinking about way to really mess that guy up! Doom knows what I’m talking about. He posted something like that before.
Can I do a /PokeOutEyesOverInternet or a /SystemShockOnPC or something to make him pay for his lameness! Arg!
/calming down
ok, it’s a bit outta my system
Good luck on future herbing of trees.
January 23rd, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Aw man
This sucks! I was gonna get help farming them, but now I don’t wanna. >_>
Conversely, I’m on a PvP server, and a BElf lock and I took turns for a short while killing and looting trees. Weird.
I’m sorry it happened. I hope they do make it like the mining, or people with latency issues are SOL.
On the subject of bog lords, with my group we generally pick one person to loot them all, and that person then divides them up evenly in the end. It’s a trust thing, but it’s worked well so far.
January 23rd, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Those elite trees still herb well? I thought they nerfed them quite some time ago. Good to know.
Anyhow, I think BBB has tapped a new source of bear tanking goodness. . . between goldsellers on the blog and herb ninjas in game, I’m pretty sure he now has infinite rage!
January 23rd, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I’ve had the same thing happen to me. The first time it happened, it was to a Horde, and I was confused (I always shift-loot trees). The second time, it was an Alliance. I’m pretty sure I was about to get ninja’d a third time, but I did as you. I just sat there with the tree unlooted (for people who haven’t killed one of the trees before, they usually only have one item on them). I frankly had decided I’d rather let it rot than let the ninja have it. Eventually, he moved on.
So here’s my take: keep hunting them. Usually there won’t be a ninja around and you’ll get your herbs. If there is? Let the corpse rot.
January 23rd, 2008 at 8:10 pm
This type of behavior isn’t limited to ninja-looting equipment or profession items, unfortunately.
True story: I was doing my alliance druid’s Ogri’la demon-banishing daily at the southern forge camp, minding my own business, just mangling away with a portal up five feet behind me. Warrior named Bila from the guild <BladeStorm> runs up and drops his own portal directly on the demon before I hit the final maim, and the demon soul went into his. I object to this, and find he’s got two of his guild buddies nearby, who proceed to mock my gear and say I didn’t deserve to get the banish.
Yeah. I’ve basically refused to run anything with that guild since.
Fast forward to two weeks ago. That same warrior whispers me if I want a group for the heroic daily. I’m sure you can guess just how much fun I had telling him to respec his worthless arms/fury ass if he needs a tank.
– Athadon
January 23rd, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Wow, talk about a broken game mechanic. I’m not an herbalist, but I think I am going to see if there are any ninjas waiting in Skettis on my server by downing a tree and waiting.
January 23rd, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Dam BBB, Ask blizzard if they are looking for a herb police, think ive just foun the man;)
January 23rd, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Man thats sucks, thats just plain wrong with the ninja looting of those trees. I’m a herbalist too. I will kill a tree every now and then just for fun but have not seen that happen before on my server and i’m in Skettis Everyday. But i be looking out for it though.
These days when i kill a tree its just a reaction because the tree is bothering me when i’m fishing mixed pools and have to kill it to go back fishing. It odes indeed only take one asshat to ruin everybodys day. I mean seriously. In the time it takes to wait to ninja a tree form someone else that person could have gone around find and killed a similiar tree and got the loot from that. Go figure.
January 23rd, 2008 at 9:20 pm
I had something similar happen (cross-faction) the other day. I was on my rogue (my druid is a skinner), killed a tree, and saw a horde guy slip underneath. So I refused to loot it. I waited a minute or so, he didn’t move, so I went and killed a tree in the South, looted it and went back… About that time, the horde was just flying off, so I looted and took my herbs.
Having some guy do that on Alliance side though is just ridiculous. We had a couple of ninjas like that on Runetotem (US) - practically everyone I know refuses to play with or near them. I imagine they’ll be transferring to your server soon!
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:44 pm
You need to be on a pvp server If alliance go anywhere near my mobs (skinning works like herbing these guys) I drop the hammer on their ass… and then camp them for being asshats.
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:47 pm
On RExxar(US), I have seen people walk the tree into the water so when it dies the corpse it submerged.They wait for the ninja to swim up for air or die while they sit their with the water breathing pot or buff active.
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
I have had just the opposite happen on Blackrock. I have followed a Horde around on my Ally druid, helping him kill felboars in SMV in return for skinning.
I just did a simple /target mob; /point; /target player; /question and he /agree’d
I then shredded all the mobs he attacked, that way I couldn’t hurt him if my target changed.
Back on topic, I agree that blizz should do something about this, like putting a 30 second exclusive rights timer on a mob after looting. The despawn timer for the corpse should start from when it is looted, not from when it was killed. (i.e. if you loot a mob just before it despawns it resets the despawn timer and the mob stays there for 5 mins or what have you.)
January 23rd, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
Better idea, though.
Don’t just give up, modify your farming a little. Kill the tree and leave. Move on to the next mob. Once the next tree drops, swing back by the body in cat, see if you see anyone and then loot/herb if it’s clear. Unless you have a retard sitting in stealth spamming it, you’ll get what you earned.
And if they do persist in following you around? Kill the trees, don’t -ever- loot them and just enjoy honing your skills.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:34 am
Two things concern me greatly:
First, the mechanic is fubared. I’m pretty sure the intent of the game is for you to be able to finish what you start.
Second, it sounds like these guys might be using a hack: If you opened the tree first, there is no way in hell someone should be able to loot that tree before you do. However, I’m going to try something with my skinner and a guildie skinner to see if THAT is broken too.
But seriously, it really really does sound like a speedhack of some kind is being used, and for any MMORPG veteran — UO, AC, DAOC, you name it — speed hacks are right up there with capital crimes as far as being hated with unbridled venom.
In other words, I think Blizzard needs to be made aware of a possible cheat. If there’s even the remotest possibility such a thing is in use, all of us are in danger (game-wise, of course). Think Mailbox.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Is clicking a lot consider a hack?
Oh and Sense and Komobi from KT say thanks for the herbs.
January 24th, 2008 at 4:23 am
To Jaltir and any others who ninja and then brag about it…. just wanted to let you know that Windshadow has something that you don’t have. It’s something you can’t take from him by hiding inside a tree, either. It’s something that you have to earn, and you probably never will.
You have a few herbs, grats.
Windshadow has respect. He has self-respect, and he has the respect of this community.
Years from now, when there are no more servers running and World of Warcraft is just a memory, he will still have that.
And you will have nothing.
Enjoy your herbs.
BBB, thanks again for this great blog.
January 24th, 2008 at 4:37 am
Thanks a lot for the kind words, Snotpaw, but Jaltir is actually being funnier than you know.
See, he is a troll from the WoW forums… turns out someone posted a link in the Kael’thas (US) forums called “Jimyon is a ninja”, linking to this article.
That is what brought Jaltir here. He’s never ninja’d me, but he claimed he did to be a forum troll. You’ve seen them before… they don’t actually DO anything crude, they just say they do to try to elicit a response. They’re funny. It’s cool. It’s kind of flattering, really, to have my own forum troll. I hope he sticks around.
Anyway, what’s cute is, he’s making it sound like Sense and Komobi (Hordies btw) were thanking me for letting them ninja me… he’s just joking, cause what really happened, is Sense and Komobi spent some time following Jimyon around today… and ninja’d every tree he tried to loot.
At least, they say they did. Sense has a pretty solid rep on the server, so if he said it, I’ll buy it.
And the thought of Jimyon walking around getting the tree loot ninja’d from him brings warmth to my heart. It really, truly does.
If we were a PvP server… ah yes, I can see the joys…. but sinse we ain’t, well… that will certainly do to make me smile.
Thanks Sense, thanks Komobi. Even if you didn’t really do it, the thought that you might have is awesome. You guys are the best.
January 24th, 2008 at 8:28 am
LOL, whups. Okay then, the troll got me!
(falls over in a dramatic death, troll dagger sticking from back)
Still, what I said stands as far as the real gloaters are concerned. And it’s really just the ones who gloat that bother me… it’s one thing to steal something because you feel like you desperately need it, but it’s quite another thing to think that you’re really somebody special because you got away with it. If you want to be somebody special, like I said, you have to earn it. In my opinion, you’ve earned it by your hard work on this blog, your dedication to your guild and to the larger Druid community, and your willingness to learn your class - all while balancing WoW with a home life and a professional career, paying bills, et cetera.
That’s a “talent spec” that a lot of these loud-mouthed punks don’t know anything about.
Like “Pablo” said above, once you’re out of your mom’s basement and you actually have a wife, job, etc, your time is a lot more valuable. You do indeed have to “fight, scratch, and bargain” for it sometimes. For someone else to take it away from you, and then gloat about it, just demonstrates that they themselves have not learned how valuable it actually is. It’s not just imaginary gold they’re taking from you - it’s minutes of your actual life that you’ll never get back.
Good grief, I talk too much. Sorry. Maybe I need my own blog.
January 24th, 2008 at 9:56 am
My only 70 is a prot warrior; which means I’m not much good at killing any elites (solo anyway). I had a bash at those trees in Skettis, and lets just say I struggled!!
Anyway, I’ve experienced the same issues you have. I often do a few loops of the dead mire (Zangarmarsh) killing the bog lords for some Primal Life farming. Its easy and I can grind a good few per hour without too much effort. A lot of people quest here too, so I make sure I don’t “clean up” every mob and if I see they don’t herb their bodies, a quick polite /w asking if they mind I do normally gets a favourable answer.
But I hate it when I get people following me around just to herb the bodies as soon as I have looted it, especially as I’ll /w them and let them know I’m a herbalist. I can’t do much with the opposite faction, but I can’t see the point of a fellow alliance doing it. For a start, if they’re trying to profit from it, its far more profitable to go and do a few loops around Zangarmarsh herbing.
Sadly, there’s not a lot I can do, and when I do get a parasite, I tend to let my netherwing mount loop me around the map for a while and pick herbs. The drop rate of motes of life is much lower, but I get far less interruptions from fools with too much free time (how entertaining can it be just waiting to steal another body, especially as it has a good 50% chance to only herb a grey / white item)
On the subject of cross faction, I can’t really talk cos I’m on a PvE server. I know if I go to a node and see a hordie about to pick the herb, I’ll move on. To me, its just good manners. Sadly, I have come across the same problems everyone else has mentioned and there’s not a lot you can do, bar try another zone (which feels like defeatism, but at the end of the day, parasites like Jimyon need you to kill stuff to do what they do). So let them sit there doing nothing (what fun, worth every penny) while you go and do something worthwhile on another toon.
Anglomaniac
(Hellfire-EU)
January 24th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
“Forum Troll”? I think I have a total of 13 posts… and most of them say “Haha Cornhole.” or something to that effect. I have ganked your herbs BBB on the SW side of Skettis. I don’t hide in trees that often either I’m more of a stand in front of them man.
It’s really the best thing to do while I wait for my MD CD to end honestly little click clicky and I get some herbs. It’s fun. It’s challenging. And though there are usually sore losers who report me for “harassment” (check TOS it’s not). I think some people might just see the whole trees in skettis as passive agressive PVP.
Though I do agree Jimyon looting from the same faction… well thats just not nice.
January 24th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Lol Jaltir, no. No, you haven’t ‘ganked’ my herbs.
Although there have been times when I was just killing the trees and moving on, it’s sure possible that you herbed one after I was done with it….
Taking my cast- off ‘leavings’ as it were.
But eh, like I said in my post above, Horde vs Alliance herbage and stuff doesn’t bother me. I said Whirl got owned and laughed when a Horde did it to him, and I lolled my ass off at the persistance of Mechanized.
Actually, I think I was pissy at Mechanized at the time, simply because his attempt came so quick after Jimyon.
You’ll note I didn’t have any hard feelings at him successfully grabbing the herbs.
But nah, Horde vs Alliance is built into the game. That’s cool.
But two thigns aren’t cool.
1) Same faction ganking crap. You want herbs and are same faction? Suggest teaming, and trade the loot back and forth. Work together. Cooperate. You jackass, Jimyon.
2) Built-in failure to lock down your looting if you WERE first to loot. Need to make it the same as Mining, imo.
But hey… I tell you what.. I don’t want to squabble. Tell ya what Jaltir, I’ll go buzz around Skettis tonight.. if you see me, do a /wave, and I’ll go kill a tree. We’llr ace on the herbage, and if you can gank it from me, I’ll screenshot it and put it on a post.
We can make a game of it
January 24th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
And you live in the cities!… Why is it so cold here?
January 24th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Now that you mention it…
The exact same thing happened to me last night, except that it was in SMV. I was picking up a Netherdust pollen (sic) and this Horde Shaman dismounted from his mount, started picking after I started, and ended before I ended, effectively stealing my pollen.
My (long shot) guess is that herbing is affected by haste effects.
January 25th, 2008 at 12:13 am
This seems to be a PvE server problem. When I first Xferred my Draenei warrior from an RP server to PvE, I was in absolute disbelief at how many assholes will gank mining nodes while you’re fighting next to them, or even better–run up and start trying to mine right along with you! There have actually been WAY, way more alliance do this to me than horde.
Now, on my old druid main, back on my PvP server that never happened. My fellow horde never tried to yank my nodes out from under me, or out-skin me. Only fool alliance with a death wish. And then even if they did manage to get the drop on me and skin/mine my goods, I’d tail and camp them so bad I’m sure I ruined their evening. But, anyways, it’s possible I was either on a really good server, or there was just a greater sense of camaraderie because it’s very literally us against them on a PvP server.
Not so here on Kilrogg! It’s every alliance for herself. Very, very frustrating
Made me drop skinning, and I didn’t bother with mining until my warr got her epic flyer. /sigh Hoping they will address this somehow in the future.
January 25th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
I’ve been thinking about this the last day or so, and wanted to point out something in response to something Galohart said:
“In the time it takes to wait to ninja a tree form someone else that person could have gone around find and killed a similiar tree and got the loot from that.”
When Von Neumann was looking at game theory (not that I want to support him as a great person by any means), they found that very often winning wasn’t enough for people–their opponent also had to lose. In fact, they found that many times people would actively work towards a lose/lose situation rather than a win/win one. (If you’re interested, read Prisoner’s Dilemma, but don’t buy it–it’s not very interesting otherwise)
Personally, I think it is this mentality that is behind most ganking (they get nothing from it but the knowledge that they disrupted your gameplay), and it makes me believe that even if they couldn’t get the herbs themselves, they would still be doing this.
As for what we can do about it? Do what we can to keep from ending up as asshats ourselves.
January 25th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I’ve just experienced this first hand and it pissed me off to no end. I posted about it as well.
http://wowjones.blogspot.com
And I disagree that its not Blizz’s problem. You can even ninja the plants when the other person is literally viewing them in their loot window and they are ready for the taking.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Haha its crazy that u make a big deal about it. I didn’t think twice about it /shrug. I was satisfied. i win. gg
January 29th, 2008 at 6:39 am
Dear BBB,
First of all, I enjoy your journal - is amusing and thought-provoking and thank you for writing, and for all the useful links I keep finding from here *smiles*
But I read this post and I couldn’t _not_ comment. I make no judgement on the actual game situation, looting timers, etc, but it’s the potential repercussions that bother me. I understand and I accept that you are less bothered, as are most people, when a member of the other faction could be seen as taking advantage of you in this way or with skinning, mining, etc, because that’s how the game is set up - Horde and Alliance in competition. Following from this mindset, it does feel like being stabbed in the back by someone who should be working with you when
it’s done by your own faction.
But why? For your own side, it’s a “do as you would be done unto” attitude, for those of us with a mental age and maturity above that of the average ninja-looting nubcake. Blizzard, the game itself, encourages this mindset that the other faction don’t matter to the same degree. Why? In part, it’s because it makes their game work better, I suspect. PvP servers and battlegrounds are examples, if we ignore the “Rush FW noobs!” yells in Alterac Valley, for example *grins*
But if there wasn’t this inherent understanding and acceptance that it’s okay to do over the other faction, where would we be? Probably some folks would have a slightly less fun PvP game. Okay.
Now take it the other way, and push it a bit further than you have. There becomes an inherent understanding and acceptance that these avatars, these on-screen people who look different, sound different, and whom you can’t communicate with, well, they’re not worth being polite to. They can be stolen from, lolled at, spit-spammed, etc. Okay - so most of us mature folks don’t go quite that far. But even in a game, it’s got a lot of folks a sneaky several steps down the road to bigotry without even considering that they’re there or where it might lead.
I wonder if Hitler started in a way similar to this? After all, even the gypsies, Jews and homosexuals could communicate with the Nazis without it being a bannable offence…
In my view, just because someone isn’t your faction isn’t a reason to treat them like they’re not just as much of a human being behind the keyboard as you are, or would want to be treated as. The immature idiots will always treat everyone else like they don’t matter at all, and we just have to live with them. But for those of us who are mature adults, it’s different. Or it should be, right?
Theft is theft, and the Nazis quite happily helped themselves to what they wanted on a variety of pretexts that boiled down to “we think we’re better than them” and “we’ve been told that it’s okay”. Yes, asshats will likely always be asshats, as pointed out by a prior commenter. Forgetting that the gnome, dwarf, troll, orc, etc that you can’t do more than emote to isn’t just as much of a person, with just as real feelings as yours, and just as much right to any herb or node or skin they’ve worked for too, just because Blizzard want you to think that way, well, that’s not a good way to go, in my opinion.
Yes, WoW is just a game. But an avalanche starts with a single pebble. It all starts somewhere, unless you stand up and stop it.
Still love the blog and best wishes!
February 7th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
I guess I have been lucky on both my skinner (my main) and my herbalist (my alt) that I have not experienced the ninjaing of my skins/herb. In fact its usually the other way around where I will team up with someone who is not a skinner/herbalist and we take down the mob, he/she gets the normal loots when its his/her turn, then I clean up the corpse. I have done this with both Alliance and Horde “partners” and they are happy as they get their quest mobs dead faster (like the hunting quests in Nagrand) and I get my skins/herbs.
If someone was to try and ninja my herbs/skins, I would be on the Armory the next minute researching their guild then reporting their worthless ass to their guildmaster. I have done this with persistent beggars (just be because I have the numerals 7 and 0 next to my name doesn’t mean I am an ATM) before.
Theseus - 70 NE Druid, Xinh 66 NE Rogue, Bronzebeard EU
February 7th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
/popcorn
Wow, your post even managed to trigger Godwin’s law. Now that’s quality blogging!
February 11th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Replying to Rav’s “herbing is affected by spell haste effects” post.
While I don’t know if haste does affect herbing or not, this kind of thing is usually caused by network latency — you see yourself as the one who starts herbing first, _but so does he_. This is also noticable while capturing a flag in AB.
A funny side-effect of this mechanism is that you can’t possibly run side-by side with someone else — either you or the other person will see the other as being a few feet behind. Try it
February 11th, 2008 at 1:28 am
Oh, and btw BBB, thanks for ninjaing one of my jokes
— I used to say that I don’t tank because I can’t see shit from behind my big bear butt.
Great blog, added.
–
Tatko
Cow-based oomkin from I R EVIL @ RagnarosEU
February 15th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Im not a skinner, or herbie, i mine and engineer, so i don’t have much experience with this. (primal earth is sooo flaming common on our server that no one would try and ninja a rock kill it just aint worth it) but I think i may go back to kill those trees again to see if anyone trys to ninja herb em. the loot off of those things aren’t that great, ill just let em rot. I enjoy that idea. Its not being an ass to let it rot. your kill your prerogative. now if someone asked me if i were an herbalist… ill loot it for em, but eh i just like messing with people who think they are better than others
BTW im a pally on fethermoon (US) and i love the blog
February 26th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Love your blog man.
I am not a herbalist, but I was in Skettis yesterday for my daily throw-bombs-at-eggs, and I thought, why not, put your tanking gear on and take on one of those trees. Buffs - check, mana - check (just in case), pots - check.
Funny as hell, I never dropped below 90% hp while doing that tree, I was amazed at just how cool a bear is. Yeah, I already knew that (;-) ), but it just amazes me over and over again on just how much this class rules. In raids, if I am not MT/OT but ‘just dpsing’ (and usually being on #2/#3 of the dps meter), I like to throw a tranquility or spot heals every once in a while if needed, brez someone etc etc..
In short, druids are my favorite class to play in this game. Period.
If anyone ever hangs out on Rexxar and needs a tank or dps, PST to Waldengel.
Or Heilerin, a newbie 27 holy priest that I am leveling for exclusive healing purposes (/shamelessplug:) ).
Again, great blog BBB, enjoying the read every day.
February 26th, 2008 at 9:25 am
oh, forgot, I did a /1 to General “just killed one of those Tree Giants and looted it. Coordinates are XXXX,YYYY, Herbalists, go for it” and got a “tyvm:)” 2 mins later. I may just do this every couple of days now just for the heck of it.
Never hurts to build that rep. Especially if it is SO easy.
April 15th, 2008 at 6:10 am
[…] stage. It’s an all too familiar story. Bellwether talked about it here, I mentioned it way back there, but everyone sees it at some point in the […]
May 26th, 2008 at 6:21 am
Being a 12-year-old…the worst diss on WoW.