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	<title>Comments on: Oh no! The Prince fight has changed!</title>
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	<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/</link>
	<description>Feral Druids in World of Warcraft</description>
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		<title>By: Vagar</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6683</link>
		<dc:creator>Vagar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6683</guid>
		<description>Hey,  raid leader from Essence of Grandeur here, I just wanted you to know we all thank you for the help getting through the &quot;fixed&quot; Prince fight. And thanx 4 not giving away our KZ secrets lol. Much respect man. Oh, and you&#039;ve inspired me to get back to leveling my &quot;little&quot; big bear butt Druid. See ya around the realm!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey,  raid leader from Essence of Grandeur here, I just wanted you to know we all thank you for the help getting through the &#8220;fixed&#8221; Prince fight. And thanx 4 not giving away our KZ secrets lol. Much respect man. Oh, and you&#8217;ve inspired me to get back to leveling my &#8220;little&#8221; big bear butt Druid. See ya around the realm!</p>
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		<title>By: Riy</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6612</link>
		<dc:creator>Riy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 07:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6612</guid>
		<description>We mark a reliable hunter with a nice big blue square over his head and have the raid rotate around him - both for OMG I HAVE ENFEEBLE RUUUUUUUUUNS and for &quot;crap, bad infernal drop, let&#039;s move the entire raid out of the way.&quot; We&#039;ve never used &quot;safe spots&quot; and we&#039;ve never had trouble with wiping, even with really bad infernal drops - because our raid is mobile, organized, and has a nice big blue square to follow around when stuff gets messy.

Even without safe spots it&#039;s an easy fight. People just need to be on their toes and self-aware.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We mark a reliable hunter with a nice big blue square over his head and have the raid rotate around him &#8211; both for OMG I HAVE ENFEEBLE RUUUUUUUUUNS and for &#8220;crap, bad infernal drop, let&#8217;s move the entire raid out of the way.&#8221; We&#8217;ve never used &#8220;safe spots&#8221; and we&#8217;ve never had trouble with wiping, even with really bad infernal drops &#8211; because our raid is mobile, organized, and has a nice big blue square to follow around when stuff gets messy.</p>
<p>Even without safe spots it&#8217;s an easy fight. People just need to be on their toes and self-aware.</p>
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		<title>By: Ghel</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6552</link>
		<dc:creator>Ghel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 14:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6552</guid>
		<description>Our Kara groups set up with ranged dps and healers standing on the light-colored tile just inside the door. In 50+ kills of Prince we have never had an infernal drop there. Our gnome mage likes to stand on the little post next to the door so he can see what&#039;s going on. ^.^

The tank sets up out from the group, along the right wall, with her back to it. She is of course in heal range and if we have an imp-using warlock the imp gets parked right there (phase shifted). A hunter misdirects the tank, runs out and hits Prince with an Arcane Shot. Prince dutifully rushes over and begins beating on the warrior. The hunter returns to the light-colored tile just inside the door with the rest of the ranged folks.

Melee dps position themselves on Prince&#039;s butt. When Enfeeble happens, the afflicted melees (if any) run over to the door to get out of range of the shadow nova, then run back in and resume stabbing and slashing.

If an infernal drops on the tank, the melee dps will try to reposition to a non-affected spot if they can. If they cannot, they run back to the door. Any class that can do something else, does (e.g. enhancement shaman unable to melee will switch to healing). The tank does not move and our healers just heal her through the infernal damage. This gets rough if an infernal drops on her during Phase 2, so we blow all +damage and +haste cooldowns during this phase to get through it as quickly as possible.

Sometimes we do wipe due to infernal + phase 2 damage on the tank, but 90% of the time we just heal through it. Bear in mind these are experienced, well-geared Kara teams farming the instance for badges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our Kara groups set up with ranged dps and healers standing on the light-colored tile just inside the door. In 50+ kills of Prince we have never had an infernal drop there. Our gnome mage likes to stand on the little post next to the door so he can see what&#8217;s going on. ^.^</p>
<p>The tank sets up out from the group, along the right wall, with her back to it. She is of course in heal range and if we have an imp-using warlock the imp gets parked right there (phase shifted). A hunter misdirects the tank, runs out and hits Prince with an Arcane Shot. Prince dutifully rushes over and begins beating on the warrior. The hunter returns to the light-colored tile just inside the door with the rest of the ranged folks.</p>
<p>Melee dps position themselves on Prince&#8217;s butt. When Enfeeble happens, the afflicted melees (if any) run over to the door to get out of range of the shadow nova, then run back in and resume stabbing and slashing.</p>
<p>If an infernal drops on the tank, the melee dps will try to reposition to a non-affected spot if they can. If they cannot, they run back to the door. Any class that can do something else, does (e.g. enhancement shaman unable to melee will switch to healing). The tank does not move and our healers just heal her through the infernal damage. This gets rough if an infernal drops on her during Phase 2, so we blow all +damage and +haste cooldowns during this phase to get through it as quickly as possible.</p>
<p>Sometimes we do wipe due to infernal + phase 2 damage on the tank, but 90% of the time we just heal through it. Bear in mind these are experienced, well-geared Kara teams farming the instance for badges.</p>
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		<title>By: Mookoo</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6549</link>
		<dc:creator>Mookoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 08:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6549</guid>
		<description>Hi,
the prince is a pure &quot;luck&quot;-encounter. We&#039;re always quite unlucky with the infernals an get used to down him with 2-3 infernals hitting the tank. Our strategy is to tank him on the far left side from the entrance. Ranged &amp; heals gather in a mob in the middle watching for the infernals and move as a group out of the range of these. Poor melees often have a hard life to dps, but on the rare occasions no ore one infernal  lands near the tank we down him in 3-4mins. 
Key is to shift positions.

Cheers,
Moo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
the prince is a pure &#8220;luck&#8221;-encounter. We&#8217;re always quite unlucky with the infernals an get used to down him with 2-3 infernals hitting the tank. Our strategy is to tank him on the far left side from the entrance. Ranged &amp; heals gather in a mob in the middle watching for the infernals and move as a group out of the range of these. Poor melees often have a hard life to dps, but on the rare occasions no ore one infernal  lands near the tank we down him in 3-4mins.<br />
Key is to shift positions.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Moo</p>
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		<title>By: Darkk</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6546</link>
		<dc:creator>Darkk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 08:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6546</guid>
		<description>My guild has killed Prince around 5 times now, actually had the guild first kill on my first Kara run. Our bear tanks him in the far left &#039;corner&#039; and our MT healer is marked with a diamond for the ranged people. He&#039;s the spotter so they follow him, for us melee types it&#039;s good to know where to run with Enfeeble. 

We have the fight pretty well down now, usually the infernals drop on just the wrong places and sometimes trap us so we can&#039;t move. Usually takes a couple wipes until we get better infernals. :P It&#039;s a pretty fun fight though. Last time the infernals totally sucked, but we one-shotted him with half the raid down in the end. Just me (a ret pally), the tank, a mage and two pally healers up. 

Me and the tank were trapped between two infernals so tight we were taking aoe and couldn&#039;t move safely, used up all my mana nuking him and in the end had regened just enough for one Crusader Strike and he fell. Good times. It is mostly about mobility, but you can&#039;t ignore pure luck either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guild has killed Prince around 5 times now, actually had the guild first kill on my first Kara run. Our bear tanks him in the far left &#8216;corner&#8217; and our MT healer is marked with a diamond for the ranged people. He&#8217;s the spotter so they follow him, for us melee types it&#8217;s good to know where to run with Enfeeble. </p>
<p>We have the fight pretty well down now, usually the infernals drop on just the wrong places and sometimes trap us so we can&#8217;t move. Usually takes a couple wipes until we get better infernals. :P It&#8217;s a pretty fun fight though. Last time the infernals totally sucked, but we one-shotted him with half the raid down in the end. Just me (a ret pally), the tank, a mage and two pally healers up. </p>
<p>Me and the tank were trapped between two infernals so tight we were taking aoe and couldn&#8217;t move safely, used up all my mana nuking him and in the end had regened just enough for one Crusader Strike and he fell. Good times. It is mostly about mobility, but you can&#8217;t ignore pure luck either.</p>
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		<title>By: Ghosthoof</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6539</link>
		<dc:creator>Ghosthoof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 02:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6539</guid>
		<description>I find my biggest problem with Prince since 2.3/2.4 is getting people to understand that if an infernal drops then they need to move right away, not when it starts to cast its AoE. I also have a lot of problems with people wanting it to be a tank and spank fight, when it&#039;s not.

I&#039;ve wanted to operate a two group system, splitting the healers up so that I don&#039;t lose all my healing on one infernal drop, but no one wants to hear that. They want to stand in the doorway and take the dice roll. If an infernal drops on the ranged spot then we generally wipe due to all of the healers running and not healing the tank.

We still do it normally on the first try, two attempts at max, but that&#039;s mainly because we bring mostly T5 people along. I can imagine that phase three is hell with a group that still needs a lot of Kara upgrades and is mostly full of people throwing out 700 DPS or less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find my biggest problem with Prince since 2.3/2.4 is getting people to understand that if an infernal drops then they need to move right away, not when it starts to cast its AoE. I also have a lot of problems with people wanting it to be a tank and spank fight, when it&#8217;s not.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve wanted to operate a two group system, splitting the healers up so that I don&#8217;t lose all my healing on one infernal drop, but no one wants to hear that. They want to stand in the doorway and take the dice roll. If an infernal drops on the ranged spot then we generally wipe due to all of the healers running and not healing the tank.</p>
<p>We still do it normally on the first try, two attempts at max, but that&#8217;s mainly because we bring mostly T5 people along. I can imagine that phase three is hell with a group that still needs a lot of Kara upgrades and is mostly full of people throwing out 700 DPS or less.</p>
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		<title>By: Maulrush</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6538</link>
		<dc:creator>Maulrush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 19:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6538</guid>
		<description>Just want to repeat a nice trick that was mentioned earlier:

If infernal placement is looking ugly, you don&#039;t have to grit your teeth and prepare for the inevitable wipe.  You can have Prince &#039;punt&#039; the tank to a new spot by having the tank rotate around Prince until the tank has his back to the direction where there is a clean tanking spot, and let the next Shadow Nova send him flying across the room.  Since the healers tend to be in the center and it take some time for Prince to catch up, its not too tough to pick up the healing and set up in a nice clean, Infernal-less space.  Just make sure to stop ranged DPS during the transition.  Its safe for Prince to even go running through the raid to catch up to the tank, since he just did the Nova.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just want to repeat a nice trick that was mentioned earlier:</p>
<p>If infernal placement is looking ugly, you don&#8217;t have to grit your teeth and prepare for the inevitable wipe.  You can have Prince &#8216;punt&#8217; the tank to a new spot by having the tank rotate around Prince until the tank has his back to the direction where there is a clean tanking spot, and let the next Shadow Nova send him flying across the room.  Since the healers tend to be in the center and it take some time for Prince to catch up, its not too tough to pick up the healing and set up in a nice clean, Infernal-less space.  Just make sure to stop ranged DPS during the transition.  Its safe for Prince to even go running through the raid to catch up to the tank, since he just did the Nova.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahakune</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6537</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahakune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 19:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6537</guid>
		<description>Yeah... im pretty sure all the safe spots are gone
everytime my guild goes in there a new guildee or a pug says hey dont u kno about the safe spot and everytime we listened a infernal drops right on top of me or whoever is tankin
Tankin by the door seems to work the best and i havnt had a problem lately walkin thro a infernal even in phase 2... u just gotta watch out and not walk towards ur melee or healers when hes about to shadow nova but still stay in range of heals or no matter how much HP u got hes gonna bust u
And i have gotten enfeebled while MTing.. it was kinda funny cuz i noticed i had 1hp and was dodging everything he was throin at me then he shadow nova&#039;d and we all kno how bears handle any kinda spell attacks so needless to say.
and after i was wondering wth happened and thought of someone bein higher on aggro than me even tho we had salv from our sweet pally healz but still couldnt figure it out,, glitch maybe
big game o luck imho</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah&#8230; im pretty sure all the safe spots are gone<br />
everytime my guild goes in there a new guildee or a pug says hey dont u kno about the safe spot and everytime we listened a infernal drops right on top of me or whoever is tankin<br />
Tankin by the door seems to work the best and i havnt had a problem lately walkin thro a infernal even in phase 2&#8230; u just gotta watch out and not walk towards ur melee or healers when hes about to shadow nova but still stay in range of heals or no matter how much HP u got hes gonna bust u<br />
And i have gotten enfeebled while MTing.. it was kinda funny cuz i noticed i had 1hp and was dodging everything he was throin at me then he shadow nova&#8217;d and we all kno how bears handle any kinda spell attacks so needless to say.<br />
and after i was wondering wth happened and thought of someone bein higher on aggro than me even tho we had salv from our sweet pally healz but still couldnt figure it out,, glitch maybe<br />
big game o luck imho</p>
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		<title>By: Macciatto and Catsmeow</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6536</link>
		<dc:creator>Macciatto and Catsmeow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 19:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6536</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve been lucky then Lish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve been lucky then Lish.</p>
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		<title>By: Blacknimbus</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/comment-page-1/#comment-6531</link>
		<dc:creator>Blacknimbus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 16:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/05/27/oh-no-the-prince-fight-has-changed/#comment-6531</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve always tanked him on the wall to the right of the door with healers and casters standing just inside by the door.

Tank moves to max healing range and the healers confirm this.  Hunter then misdirects to tank and we do slow DPS for phase one.  Your rogues and feral druids don&#039;t even have to do much except their ranged attacks until phase 2.  When phase 2 starts, the tank has a lot of aggro built up and your casters should have most of their mana. 

Phase 2 - everyone ramps up the dps and healers ramp up their healing.  If an infernal drops in front of the door, half the time the healers are still in range and the ranged dps is either in range or can move.  Melee DPS has to move around the infernal to do their damage.

There is a lot of luck involved, because sometimes the infernal will push the healers out of range and it&#039;s difficult for him to move without getting bounced around or moving into the infernal aoe.

The key is to keep the tank in range of the healers...end of story.  DPS can generally relocate, although I&#039;ve noticed that infernals tend to cover the area pretty solidly now and people get killed trying to run around because they get enfeebled or just die for the aoe.

We just plan on it being a one-shot or taking up 3-5 attempts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve always tanked him on the wall to the right of the door with healers and casters standing just inside by the door.</p>
<p>Tank moves to max healing range and the healers confirm this.  Hunter then misdirects to tank and we do slow DPS for phase one.  Your rogues and feral druids don&#8217;t even have to do much except their ranged attacks until phase 2.  When phase 2 starts, the tank has a lot of aggro built up and your casters should have most of their mana. </p>
<p>Phase 2 &#8211; everyone ramps up the dps and healers ramp up their healing.  If an infernal drops in front of the door, half the time the healers are still in range and the ranged dps is either in range or can move.  Melee DPS has to move around the infernal to do their damage.</p>
<p>There is a lot of luck involved, because sometimes the infernal will push the healers out of range and it&#8217;s difficult for him to move without getting bounced around or moving into the infernal aoe.</p>
<p>The key is to keep the tank in range of the healers&#8230;end of story.  DPS can generally relocate, although I&#8217;ve noticed that infernals tend to cover the area pretty solidly now and people get killed trying to run around because they get enfeebled or just die for the aoe.</p>
<p>We just plan on it being a one-shot or taking up 3-5 attempts.</p>
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