When we talk about symbols, it’s easy to think about what it used to mean rather than what it now means. Symbols are cultural references and cultures can easily attach or places new meaning on a symbol. It’s not exclusive to just images, but also words and names. I think we would all feel very badly for the other Ted Bundy or the other Monica Lewinsky who just happened to have a similar name by coincidence.

It’s true that honorable and noble individuals fought under the Confederate Flag. It’s also true that the symbol has also been perverted by the Klu Klux Klan and other groups to represent racism. In most places (other than the south), people will attribute the meaning of that symbol to racism rather than any other previous historic meaning.

The meaning of any symbol is determined by how our culture chooses to interpret that symbol. I can go give someone “the bird” in some undiscovered tribe in the Amazon and they’ll have no clue what I intend for it to mean. That’s an important point because different cultures can interpret the same symbol differently. With the Confederate Flag, we have a culture in our Confederacy states that still remembers the original meaning of the symbol. While in the rest of the US, most people attribute the new meaning to that symbol.

It’s unfortunate that it happens, but we can’t simply choose to ignore it. As a kid, I used to think rainbows were cool. Now I realize that the possibility of a rainbow bumper sticker is forever lost to me if I don’t want to be confused with being homosexual.

It seems like the vast majority of callers into the shows don’t seem to realize this. I think the main reason I listen to MPR instead of KLTK is that the hosts don’t tend (tho they still do to an annoying degree, especially certain ones) feul the fire of ridiculousness as badly as the KLTK ones do.

The flag by itself is nothing. The flag hanging over the grave of a confederate soldier is a memorial the sacrafice he made. The flag hanging over a red pick up being waved by a bunch of asshats is a symbol of hatred and asshatism plain and simple.

These days anything viewed as offensive to a single person is chastized and removed as soon as possible. Whether its intended to be hatefull, as a joke, or purely on accident that person is then labeled a bigot or racists or whatever.

Our society as a whole just seems to be completely one sided now a days. Different opinions can’t exist anymore regardless. I love debating and often times both sides of any arguments but people hate this because it might step on someones toes. The flag is bad the flag is good I can argue both sides…. but at the end of the day wtf does it matter?

Lets take the flag out of the situation…. A couple of asshats waving a stick around yelling racial slurs… there ya go focus is back on the kids and not on a piece of fabric. Lets look at the people not at objects to find the source of our problem

It’s funny how we look down upon the Muslims for being offended by some cartoons when there are Americans who would react the same way to a person who created cartoons that challenged current views on racism, sexual orientation, or global warming.

We have lost the ability to have a dispassionate discussion/debate on issues in order to feel self righteous. It’s a shame that our divisions have led to the “I’m right, you’re stupid” stage where nothing is resolved.

Was he kicked out? No.

But he was the next year for drug-related reasons. :P

To paraphrase Apu,

The causes of the Civil war were many and varied, including social and economic factors, and the issue of states rights…

To paraphrase the guy giving the citizenship test,

Just say slavery.

People don’t want complex issues, they want sound bites and black and white. I don’t listen to talk radio, watch cable news, or read any political books because they are trying to distill things into sound bites and only present one view on the subject. Unfortunately, that is what most people in this country seem to want.

No, never have convinced a southerner of that. The best I’ve ever gotten is an agreement that Grant was a lot better than his reputation.

And yes, I place Lee as a human fairly high. Much higher than Nathan (spit) Bedfort (spit again) Forrest, for example. Which is, in turn, part of the original argument I was making, which is also sorta buried in the original rant. The flag was a war flag, and its continued presentation was a not-so-subtle declaration of sympathy and support for (and possible participation in) the same guerrilla campaign Lee so roundly rejected.

Its like the swastika that the Nazis used on their flag. It has been perverted because asshats decided that they wanted to use it for thier own ideals. The swastika was originally a symbol for good luck and was in lots of cultures before the freaking asshat Nazis decided to use it. Now when most people see a swastika they think about what happened during WWII. The old meaning has almost been washed away because of this.

God…I really feel for the world and the idiots on it.

The distinction you are making in the meaning a symbol can have, depending on your POV, actually lies in a very narrow and treacherous path.

Consider the simile the old lady tried to give at the talk show. The swastika. And put that together with your argument about the confederate flag.

/history lesson on
After WWI, the winning countries imposed severe penalties and regulation on Germany, both on economic and military aspects, so as to prevent the country to build it’s power again and lead the world in a second war. But Germany managed to get through. One of the arguments Hitler used to justify the invasion on nearby countries, was that German people needed “lebensraum”, that is lining space. For most everyday Germans, having faced economic oppression between the 2 WW, that was true. They needed space (and raw materials of course) for their country to develop. They didn’t care for all the “higher race” bullshit and all. So they rallied under the banner with the swastika, for something they believed was ok.
/history lesson off

You can see where this arguments leads us.

Another such example is the pentagram. Most (if not all) people connect the pentagram with the worship of Satan. The actual symbol is way older. It dates back to ancient Greece, where out ancestor mathematicians from the school of Pythagora, used it as a symbol of structural perfection (the Golden Ration and everything, go look it up on google), and harmony.

The point I am trying to make is that, the real problem is not ignorance, but fear of where this arguments might lead you. Most people prefer the easy way. Behave like ostriches who plant their head on the sand in the face of danger. Call names and not sit down and talk, at anything that has the potential to break the bubble they live in. They DON’T WANT to think. That’s what they teach them to do. Others have made that thinking for you, before you. Go with the flow etc. Why give a damn if the confederate flag might actually represent something noble, when it’s easier to just call it a symbol of racism and be done with it. Get the point and the pattern?