I’ve been just kind of idly messing around with the talent trees for Ferals, at least as they stand right now.

Everything is subject to change, yes. In fact, I expect lots of things to change.

But I am curious how we will be building a tanking spec in times to come. Will we be able to shoehorn in EVERY talent that is good for tanking, damage output and rage generation as we can now for bear? Sure, right now we willingly lose a teeny bit of kitty talent to max bear… but will we be so close then as we are now to having a ‘no brainer’ spec?

Hey, I’m a Feral Druid. I am getting back into tanking mode again, excited about playing my Druid again (Shadow Priest is geared up enough to rest a bit), and I am a curious bear. And when Cassie asks me, what my main will be to level first in WotLK, the answer is 100% bear.

The Talent Tree Spec I’m looking at right now is based on what I’m seeing as currently highly valuable Resto Tree talents, and leaves off quite a bit… most of what is lost seems to be talents that would help the team, or increase your ability to be brutal in PvP. Although I would dearly miss Feral Charge. Hey, it’s far from perfect.

What catches my eye, and keeps me coming back, is the 51 point talent in the feral tree.

Berserk just seems far, FAR too good to be true. I do not exect it to go live.

But if it does… well then. :)

WELL THEN.

Nom Nom Nom.

I’ll put up the new Berserk talent that is in the tree now… and then for contrast, I’ll put up the old, very small Berserk tooltip from the earliest days of the Alpha leaks.

Berserk NewBerserk Old

23 Responses to “Playing around with WotLK Druid feral talents”
  1. Dysintary says:

    Does it also increase your size and turn you red? :)

    My wife is going to love this if it goes through.

  2. Kumata says:

    Having looked at it for myself I think the spare points will come from Infected Wounds. I really think we will be able to get away with 2/3 points in it. 66% with a 12 sec uptime is plenty when you are spamming it while tanking anyway.

  3. bigbearbutt says:

    Kumata, I absolutely agree with you. I’m seeing Infected Wounds as being a place to pull one point from.

    And you notice I’m not talking about Defense, Uncrittable, and 6% from Survival of the Fittest?

    Don’t I show restraint?

    There is a rumor, and Matticus and I so far are the only ones who both remember it but can’t pin down where the source was, that Resilience will no longer benefit PvE in WotLK. So you would no longer get Resilience benefits to being uncrittable.

    It’s only a rumor, unless someone can find Matt and I an actual link to where we saw the rumor. My point would be, that since we don’t know if 6% from Survival of the Fittest will either totally remove our need for Defense Rating or reduce our need to the point that it’s easy to get, PLEASE don’t shard your Defense Rating items once you get PvP gear. Please.

  4. Mitch says:

    I remember seeing that somewhere too, I want to say on the wotlk wiki page a while back. I mentioned that to someone recently and I’m not sure if it was taken off the page or what but I couldn’t find word of it.

    If they do this they better itemize correctly this time around . . .

  5. Doyce says:

    Huh. It’s the Beast Master 41-point power. :)

  6. Doyce says:

    Err, no, sorry, it’s not the 41. It’s Beastial Wrath.

    Which is awesome.

    Now, if only a Bear pet could do feral charge…

  7. bigbearbutt says:

    No, the phrasing is stolen from Bestial wrath, yes. Which of course was stolen from the first Terminator film.

    But this is not Bestial Wrath… it merely shares the ‘immune to fear’ effect during the duration.

    Since it’s still HEAVILY under development, I can see why a dev would have tagged the Bestial Wrath Terminator quote on it, if they are trying to keep in mind their goal as they make changes; to remember the goal is to develop an ‘oh shit’ tank button for when you absolutely cannot afford to be feared or stunned, or made to run away.

    God bless them.

  8. Blackworld13 says:

    Maybe it will make our butts look bigger.

    The 5 min CD will only let us use it once during most boss fights tho. I guess its almost like the Last Stand move for warriors with a mix of Beastial Wrath.
    The Mangle move that will hit 3 targets would be good for PvP mostly imo.

  9. bigbearbutt says:

    Rampel, with your build, two things I see is that, first, you lost all three points of Primal Tenacity. As a bear tank, I like Primal Tenacity.

    The second thing I see, is that by dropping 2 points in Naturalist to enable yourself to take 2/2 of Master Shapeshifter, you are losing 4% physical damage in bear AND cat to gain 4% physical damage in bear and 4% crit in cat.

    To my mind, doing that you are going from 10% physical damage in bear to… 10% physical damage in bear.

    But you are going from 10% physical damage in cat to 6% phys dam in cat and 4% crit.

    And in order to do it, you have to take all 3/3 of Natural Shapeshifter.

    To be honest, looking at it in the cold light of day, I would either want to take Master Shapeshifter WITH full 5/5 of Naturalist for the 14% physical damage, or drop Master Shapeshifter and Natural Shapeshifter entirely to put those points elsewhere.

    It’s fun to speculate, isn’t it?

  10. Felkan says:

    Do you really need Primal Tenacity? You don’t need it now and you’ll need it less with Berserk. Though I guess it is sort of nice for PvP. But 15%? If it was 50% I’d _think_ about it, but at 15% it is near useless.

    What about Intensity, I love it. But do I really need it? Maybe as I suspect I will be pulling with roots come Xpac (tank with CC!!!). Root–>bear–>enrage. So, the initial 10 rage would be nice. Maybe, gasp, I could drop FFF???????? That might hurt too much when solo questing in kitty.

    Infected Wounds seems like a PvP talent. As most bosses today are immune to any type of snare. But maybe things will change? I love the talent, but if I just PvE, I would probably do without it.

    Primal Precision seems like a very odd talent. 10 exp is nice for bear (and solo Kitty), but the kitty energy kick back seems a bit weak. With a fair amount of +hit you will rarely use it. So, is it worth 2 talent points?

    Imp Mangle for bear has me wondering if is worth it. Nice for Kitty, I guess. Bear? Cut 1.2s off an attack sequence that already generates almost too much threat? Hmmmm. Maybe we’ll need way more threat come Xpac than we do today???

    King of the Jungle is a sweet kitty talent for PvP, solo questing, etc. Not sure I see much benefit in bear, though as I mentioned above, if I start pulling with root–>bear–>enrage the extra burst threat might be nice to initially hold mobs from trigger happy DPS’rs.

    No, Imp LotP?!?!? That is so nice when questing, but at end-game??!?! I’m sure it helps melee DPS quite a bit with splash damage.

    I agree about Primal Aggression, seems to be strictly a kitty PvP talent. Unless threat generation suddenly becomes an issue for bears.

    I’m still on the fense for the “5 point” Master Shapeshifter talent. Looks nice, but I hate wasting points to get a good talent. Just makes me so PO’d at Blizzard (sneaking little b-tards).

    Time will tell…

  11. bigbearbutt says:

    Yep Felkan, I think the new indoor entangle will affect a lot of things.

    And you would be surprised how often Primal Tenacity lets me stand there when multiple mobs have fear, such as the rays in Underbog just before the third boss with our druid bear buddy pet. Really, 15% doesn’t seem valuable… but I see it proc often enough I complain bitterly when it doesn’t.

    And no, you guys can’t have a Big Bear Butt pet.

    As far as the rest f your anaylsis, very good points. Very good indeed.

    I really, REALLY want Blizzard to announce their Talent Trees soon, the way they did months before Burning Crusade was released.

    THEN we could really dig into the potential specs.

  12. Ryu says:

    My spec :p
    http://wotlkwiki.info/talent/druid.html?b=6zd503032132321010530103531041c5503312r

    I’m thinking more into end game raid dungeons like SSC, TK +, as far as I know, most of them don’t have fear, and usually if they do theres a shaman or priest in your group for fear ward or tremor totem.

    I do incredibly love the Primal tenacity talent tho. Bosses like Maulgar and Nightbane, i watch other dps’ers go running away in fear while I keep on dps’ing =]
    But as I said, whether to pick up the talent or not is completely dependent on the type of bosses that’ll be showing up.

    I absolutely love Intensity too =D. I tried it out recently and have grown so accustomed to it!! Also less time with the armor reduction is nice, along with a rage boost in the middle of the fight for more Maul spam is nice.

    Thought Primal Aggression was a must, but I sacrificed 1 point to max the Naturalist and Master Shapeshifter talents =]

    I think the only thing I’m iffy about is the Infected Wounds. I’m wondering, how many bosses will it’s attack speed reduction or movement speed reduction will it’s effect work on? Will it work with Warrior’s Thunderclap or Impv Thunderclap or will they overlap and deem one useless. But if you’re thinking mostly 5-mans or pvp, Infected Wounds would be good on whatever it works on =]. Also wondering whether it’s gonna be a disease, poison, or magic debuff. If it’s disease maybe it’ll help them Death Knights?

    ~Ryu

  13. Ryu says:

    Oh, forgot to mention… I can’t live without Feral Charge and Feral Faerie Fire. =D
    The Impv LotP didn’t seem useful. Clean up splash damage? Heh, that’s what shamans are for :p.
    The random Primal Precision is there because I couldn’t find a more useful spot to put it in and the rest of the tree was offlimits unless I put something near the bottom, so 4/5 Primal Agression for meh. =]

  14. Ryu says:

    Oh, one last tidbit :p… the 3 points in Intensity would probably rotate around Intensity, Impv Mangle and Primal Tenacity…depending on how things end up when the expansion is released. I didn’t think 1.2 seconds off of Mangle would warrant enough reason to put 3 ranks in it. Though I could be wrong.

  15. Elnino says:

    Never mind Berserk, look at Infected wounds, for a bear tank…

    -50% mob attack speed….

    That can not go live, or apply to Raid bosses, seriously, that is far, far too good =)

    Whilst we are at it, is it me, or does the new Survival of the Fittest mean I don’t need defence gear any more? =)

    Val / Elnino

  16. Messyah says:

    If in fact this anti-fear talent comes to surface, Bears will rock against Archimonde. No crushing blows and anti-fear for critical moments. w00t!

  17. Rampel says:

    I think loosing Primal Tenacity might be ok if we do get Berserk as it is now. Besides, how many bosses are we going to tank that stun or fear when we have no Shaman or Priest in the group with us?

    I’m on the fence with Infected Wounds. If the attack speed reduction applies to bosses then we could potentially reduce boss attack speed by 50%. If, however, it does not apply to bosses then that’s 3 points better spent elsewhere.

    As far as Master Shapeshifter vs Naturalist goes; It’s exactly the same for Bear but isn’t 4% crit more DPS in Cat than 6% physical damage over the course of a boss fight in most cases? If Infected Wounds does not work on bosses then you can expect that I’ll be getting both full Master Shapeshifter and Naturalist.

    It is fun to speculate.

  18. Felkan says:

    @Elnino: Regarding SotF, that is certainly how it reads. So, I suspect the game mechanics may have been changed as well. And IW on boss mobs, I think you are correct. IW will just be a PvP talent. You’ll noticed Blizzard add several PvP talents to the Feral tree, IW just might be the best one.

    @all:
    Frankly, I wonder if Berserk will turn out to be just a PvP talent? As a bear, I don’t get feared or stunned all that often from mobs now. And when I do, it is more annoying than a deal breaker (if it is a deal breaker bring a shammy or a priest along). Plus with the 5m CD, can it be used in effectively PvE? I guess the 30% instant health is the real bear benefit (though your healer better fill you up in 20s or else you’ll die when it expires), the anti-fear/stun is just PvP “fluff”. Unless, of course, some boss has a “fear phase” that last for 20s. Though the 3 target Maul/Mangle(bear) seems like a nice “oh crap” button when CC breaks or bad pulls. Combined with challenger Roar and you’d have mobs stuck to you for some time.

    For Kitty PvE, Berserk is really nice bunch of burst damage. Not sure when you’d use it. At the beginning of a fight, you’d pull agro. Later in a fight, you don’t have the energy to take advantage of its benefits. Though combine Berserk w/ KotJ (free 60E every 30s), would make for an insane amount of burst damage later in a fight. Great for PvP, but how do you control it in PvE?

    As it stands now, I don’t think I’ll pickup Berserk at lvl 70, as I’d rather have OoC for leveling. But the insane burst damage (combined with KotJ) could make short work of that Group[2] or Group[3] quest mob without have to resort to bear form.

  19. Kumata says:

    I’ve played around with it a bit more and I have some additional commentary.

    Primal Tenacity – everyone has been talking about the Fear resist, it’s nice, but not the primary reason to get this talent. The stun resist is. Cause a stunned druid dodges no blows.

    Infected Wounds – based on abilities currently in game the snare (movement debuff) will not apply to bosses but the attack speed debuff will. It is unlikely to stack with Thunderclap, Deathfrost, etc so I’d say it is looking at being a useful talent but not a required one for PVE.

    Primal Precision – useful at the lower gearing levels, obviously as you get more gear you may be able to step out the points in this talent to other areas.

    I think that Infected Wounds and Intensity are probably going to be the 2 areas where people can swap points in and out to fill out other areas that they want.

  20. Felkan says:

    @Kumata: If IW attack speed reduction works on boss mobs…

    I have to wonder if the 50% attack speed reduction on boss attacks might adversely affect rage generation. I’m sure I’d be fine if I just use Mangle/Lacerate, but on a boss I like to land as many Mauls as possible to give DPS/Healers as big of a cushion as possible. Seems like I’d have to be more careful about if/when I use Maul on mobs (boss or trash) as I might become rage starved more easily due to IW. Unfortunately, you cannot disable IW at will.

    Hmmmmm….

  21. Asherax says:

    [url]http://wotlkwiki.info/talent/druid.html?b=6011z50303213232c10530123531301005503112r[/url]

    my build…..

    primarily a feral tank, with the ability to pvp on occasion, farm, and mob slaughter in both forms…

    seemed to me primal aggression could be sacrificed, as ferocious bte would not be my finishing move of choice anyway, and with the extra crit/damage of the other talents, its a waste. Shred might be missed, but im not spending 5 points on a kitty talent when im primarily a Bear form bashing brutal tanking machine. I dropped a 50% chance of entanglement for those pvp moments, and that caters for cat and bear.

    Only 1 point in intensity is required, as the 4 points and the 10 i get from furor gives me an instant snap mangle for threat generation…any more and its a waste…so 2 points saved there.

    Primal tenacity was always a must in my previous build, but ive dropped that here as the shapeshifting and master shape shifting talents are way too handy to ignore…that and the fact that a priest can always drop a fear ward on you anyway, and now we have Berserk which iradicates the need for fear mechanic immunity so 3 points saved there also.

    Brutal impact was interesting….never used it in my builds, but as things stands the extra duration on stun effects from pounce whilest in stealth might have been very handy….but i sacrificed them as i did the primal aggression as im not primarily a catform specialist.

    Improved mangle, now means i get 2….yes thats right TWO mangles for free with the intensity point and furor, not just 1….so its a must. IlotP, is a welcome addition as well, as that splash healing can add up in critical fights and be very handy. KotJ and infected wounds are damn handy…maybe not for boss fights but for trash clearance a must.

    All in all, i stopped playing wow a while ago now, but will be back to my bearsome best whenWotLK hits the stores!

  22. Asherax says:

    also now that entanglement works inside that 50% chance of entanglement is damn handy for infight multiple tanking for pve, and tricky instances….heck, we now have thorns, then drop into shape, fff, charge, entangle, and onto the third target…who needs CC! ;)

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