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	<title>Comments on: Leveling grind? What leveling grind?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/</link>
	<description>Feral Druids in World of Warcraft</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:36:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kheldar</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8399</link>
		<dc:creator>Kheldar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i know some people say its nice to level in different starting areas with different classes/races and some people end up levelling on the other side to see what its like to be a horde after being an ally for so long or vice versa.

unfortunately i&#039;m one of those people who finds it incredibly boring to have to go through all the low level stuff again. 

hence why i have only 1 level 70, my druid which i&#039;ve had since day 1 of wow.

my only other alt is a 57 mage. and he&#039;s gone through periods of not gaining a single point of XP for 3, 4 or even 6 months. he&#039;s never done an instance that i can remember. and he&#039;s 90% levelled solo. i only use him now for bank alt and he lives in Og to check AH for me.

i dont believe he will ever see 70 and i cannot even be bothered to take him to outlands as i do not have the time or patience to level him through the 60&#039;s and gear him via 5 mans.

so for me if i could have started him immediately at 40 or 55 etc it would have been a help and then i may well have decided it was worth levelling him to 70 having saved all the lower level time wasting grind.

having had my druid for so long and in the past done the raiding thing in 40 mans i&#039;d love to experience some other class types at high level. but i will never do this due to the levelling from 1 to 70 factor and the time it still requires.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i know some people say its nice to level in different starting areas with different classes/races and some people end up levelling on the other side to see what its like to be a horde after being an ally for so long or vice versa.</p>
<p>unfortunately i&#8217;m one of those people who finds it incredibly boring to have to go through all the low level stuff again. </p>
<p>hence why i have only 1 level 70, my druid which i&#8217;ve had since day 1 of wow.</p>
<p>my only other alt is a 57 mage. and he&#8217;s gone through periods of not gaining a single point of XP for 3, 4 or even 6 months. he&#8217;s never done an instance that i can remember. and he&#8217;s 90% levelled solo. i only use him now for bank alt and he lives in Og to check AH for me.</p>
<p>i dont believe he will ever see 70 and i cannot even be bothered to take him to outlands as i do not have the time or patience to level him through the 60&#8242;s and gear him via 5 mans.</p>
<p>so for me if i could have started him immediately at 40 or 55 etc it would have been a help and then i may well have decided it was worth levelling him to 70 having saved all the lower level time wasting grind.</p>
<p>having had my druid for so long and in the past done the raiding thing in 40 mans i&#8217;d love to experience some other class types at high level. but i will never do this due to the levelling from 1 to 70 factor and the time it still requires.</p>
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		<title>By: Kinzlayer</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8345</link>
		<dc:creator>Kinzlayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good discussion from both camp for the starting level. I do agree, after leveling my 4th alts to 70, it&#039;s pretty fun to run through the old world. And I also agree that leveling from 1-70 does not teach a person to play their class properly but rather it&#039;s after when they interact with others in BGs, 5-man, 10-man, or 25-man raid; not to say that the person is willing to change their play style even when it is pointed out what they are doing wrong. (I had a lvl 63 pally telling me he did not know what Blessing of Protection was when I told him to BoP the healer and even when the group told him, his response was oh well, I&#039;m not healing so I don&#039;t have to learn to use those spells.)

I did have a lot of fond memories of struggling through Jintha&#039;alor (prior to those trolls being made non-Elite) with my warlock, or being scared to death in Hillbrads from alliance gankers on my warrior as I turn every corner, or besting a rogue who tried to gank my hunter in Stranglethorn Vale.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good discussion from both camp for the starting level. I do agree, after leveling my 4th alts to 70, it&#8217;s pretty fun to run through the old world. And I also agree that leveling from 1-70 does not teach a person to play their class properly but rather it&#8217;s after when they interact with others in BGs, 5-man, 10-man, or 25-man raid; not to say that the person is willing to change their play style even when it is pointed out what they are doing wrong. (I had a lvl 63 pally telling me he did not know what Blessing of Protection was when I told him to BoP the healer and even when the group told him, his response was oh well, I&#8217;m not healing so I don&#8217;t have to learn to use those spells.)</p>
<p>I did have a lot of fond memories of struggling through Jintha&#8217;alor (prior to those trolls being made non-Elite) with my warlock, or being scared to death in Hillbrads from alliance gankers on my warrior as I turn every corner, or besting a rogue who tried to gank my hunter in Stranglethorn Vale.</p>
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		<title>By: Schmoo</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8334</link>
		<dc:creator>Schmoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the &quot;learning curve&quot; is a load of bull.  The &quot;bad&quot; 70s I&#039;ve played with were simply stupid people...there&#039;s no cure for that.

Grinding from 1 to 70 doesn&#039;t make you better player than doing it from 60 to 70.  The &quot;grind&quot; is all solo anyway, doing XYZ quests to get your loot and XP.  I find nothing in the 1-69.99 content that comes even close to the gameplay of being a level 70.

Personally, I say WoW copies Guild Wars.  Once you have a max-level character, you should just be able to make another max-level character.  What&#039;s the point of grinding all over again?

Also, the whole &quot;profession alt&quot; thing is useful for consumables...MAYBE.  All of your uber gear from professions is BoP at some point - either the pattern is BoP or the resulting item is.  Consider how useful having profession alts is now...I have a 60 Rogue as my bank alt who I levelled Enchanting with just enough to DE...about the only useful thing about having a 60 alt.  Basically, having a profession alt is no more imbalancing than having a guildmate make stuff for you with your own mats.  As for a &quot;gathering alt&quot;, why would you do that?  Your main will likely have epic flight, incredible gear, and be able to go anywhere, do anything, kill anything, and be the best gathering toon you could make, UNLESS you dump a ton of time and cash getting your &quot;alt&quot; to that same level.  At that point, you don&#039;t even have an alt, you have a perfectly legit &quot;2nd main&quot; character.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the &#8220;learning curve&#8221; is a load of bull.  The &#8220;bad&#8221; 70s I&#8217;ve played with were simply stupid people&#8230;there&#8217;s no cure for that.</p>
<p>Grinding from 1 to 70 doesn&#8217;t make you better player than doing it from 60 to 70.  The &#8220;grind&#8221; is all solo anyway, doing XYZ quests to get your loot and XP.  I find nothing in the 1-69.99 content that comes even close to the gameplay of being a level 70.</p>
<p>Personally, I say WoW copies Guild Wars.  Once you have a max-level character, you should just be able to make another max-level character.  What&#8217;s the point of grinding all over again?</p>
<p>Also, the whole &#8220;profession alt&#8221; thing is useful for consumables&#8230;MAYBE.  All of your uber gear from professions is BoP at some point &#8211; either the pattern is BoP or the resulting item is.  Consider how useful having profession alts is now&#8230;I have a 60 Rogue as my bank alt who I levelled Enchanting with just enough to DE&#8230;about the only useful thing about having a 60 alt.  Basically, having a profession alt is no more imbalancing than having a guildmate make stuff for you with your own mats.  As for a &#8220;gathering alt&#8221;, why would you do that?  Your main will likely have epic flight, incredible gear, and be able to go anywhere, do anything, kill anything, and be the best gathering toon you could make, UNLESS you dump a ton of time and cash getting your &#8220;alt&#8221; to that same level.  At that point, you don&#8217;t even have an alt, you have a perfectly legit &#8220;2nd main&#8221; character.</p>
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		<title>By: nefer</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8318</link>
		<dc:creator>nefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the utmost interest should be to have fun.
For me there are two different groups:

-	experienced players with a max level char
-	new players.

While some players have fun leveling up alts from the beginning, I think the majority likes it 1-2 times. The game mechanics stay the same and tbh playing wow is no rocket science. Ofc there are mechanics that require deeper insight, but learning does not justify leveling for several weeks. 

New players are discouraged because they have to “work” for 2 months until they can play with their friends at max level. As the way becomes longer and longer players may feel shut out from the game.

To speed up leveling was a nice idea, but there should long have been an option to start at later levels if a char has already max level. I would suggest to set the starting point of all classes to 55 in wotlk and to raise it to 65 in the following addon, adjusting the starting level for new players to lvl 20 or 30 maybe to speed up leveling and keep the players coming.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the utmost interest should be to have fun.<br />
For me there are two different groups:</p>
<p>-	experienced players with a max level char<br />
-	new players.</p>
<p>While some players have fun leveling up alts from the beginning, I think the majority likes it 1-2 times. The game mechanics stay the same and tbh playing wow is no rocket science. Ofc there are mechanics that require deeper insight, but learning does not justify leveling for several weeks. </p>
<p>New players are discouraged because they have to “work” for 2 months until they can play with their friends at max level. As the way becomes longer and longer players may feel shut out from the game.</p>
<p>To speed up leveling was a nice idea, but there should long have been an option to start at later levels if a char has already max level. I would suggest to set the starting point of all classes to 55 in wotlk and to raise it to 65 in the following addon, adjusting the starting level for new players to lvl 20 or 30 maybe to speed up leveling and keep the players coming.</p>
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		<title>By: Rav</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8312</link>
		<dc:creator>Rav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The PvE guy making a 55 char on a PvP server is a moot point. Unless you are on a highly active server, most people play the cold war fight on those first &quot;few&quot; levels. And ganking barely happens pre-BC.

The general mechanics of the game don&#039;t change, but the small details mechanics change from class to class.

Both sides have valid concerns and excellent arguments in favor and against insta-rising characters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The PvE guy making a 55 char on a PvP server is a moot point. Unless you are on a highly active server, most people play the cold war fight on those first &#8220;few&#8221; levels. And ganking barely happens pre-BC.</p>
<p>The general mechanics of the game don&#8217;t change, but the small details mechanics change from class to class.</p>
<p>Both sides have valid concerns and excellent arguments in favor and against insta-rising characters.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8309</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m wondering if another implication of this will be a further shortage of caster/healers in the end game raids.  Nearly everyone will have a DK alt since it&#039;ll so relatively easy to do and adding that many extra Tank/Melee DPS-ers into the mix without adding any extra caster or healer type&#039;s could mean even more raiding guild will be heavily recruiting those classes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wondering if another implication of this will be a further shortage of caster/healers in the end game raids.  Nearly everyone will have a DK alt since it&#8217;ll so relatively easy to do and adding that many extra Tank/Melee DPS-ers into the mix without adding any extra caster or healer type&#8217;s could mean even more raiding guild will be heavily recruiting those classes.</p>
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		<title>By: Itok</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8304</link>
		<dc:creator>Itok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know we have months before we get our hooves on WOTLK.  However, I would like to say that I am all for the possibility of being able to start a new character at level 55.  I do not expect a brand new player to have this option only those who already have at least one Character at max level.  

I do not need to steal more pumpkins or collect more Raptor skulls in order to learn the ins and outs of a new character.  If Blizzard is requiring a string of quests to help us learn the ropes of playing a Death Knight what would be the objection to having a similar string of quests in relation to the other classes.

Itok]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know we have months before we get our hooves on WOTLK.  However, I would like to say that I am all for the possibility of being able to start a new character at level 55.  I do not expect a brand new player to have this option only those who already have at least one Character at max level.  </p>
<p>I do not need to steal more pumpkins or collect more Raptor skulls in order to learn the ins and outs of a new character.  If Blizzard is requiring a string of quests to help us learn the ropes of playing a Death Knight what would be the objection to having a similar string of quests in relation to the other classes.</p>
<p>Itok</p>
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		<title>By: The Daakster</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8302</link>
		<dc:creator>The Daakster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8302</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Feels like a potentially disastrous idea to me. Basically the game would start at 55 for what I am guessing are the majority of players (if not a majority then a very significant number). Anyone who doesn&#039;t get much play time and hasn&#039;t managed a 70 would get totally turned off by the idea of all these people just skipping past them and I bet a lot would just give up and quit.
- wasteland for new players
- no one to learn from/play with
etc

I like the lower end content, it&#039;s not hard to level and it does give you time to learn your class. But would I still run through that with a new alt if I didn&#039;t have to? I very much doubt it. Insta 55 and nip back and slaughter everything for rep, ruining the fun of any new players &#039;Hey, you killed Hogger! I needed him =(&#039;

DK is fine, new class new rules. It&#039;s no different to &#039;Oh, I can&#039;t get a mount till 60?&#039; &#039;That sucks but I guess those are the rules&#039;

Just my two penneth =)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feels like a potentially disastrous idea to me. Basically the game would start at 55 for what I am guessing are the majority of players (if not a majority then a very significant number). Anyone who doesn&#8217;t get much play time and hasn&#8217;t managed a 70 would get totally turned off by the idea of all these people just skipping past them and I bet a lot would just give up and quit.<br />
- wasteland for new players<br />
- no one to learn from/play with<br />
etc</p>
<p>I like the lower end content, it&#8217;s not hard to level and it does give you time to learn your class. But would I still run through that with a new alt if I didn&#8217;t have to? I very much doubt it. Insta 55 and nip back and slaughter everything for rep, ruining the fun of any new players &#8216;Hey, you killed Hogger! I needed him =(&#8216;</p>
<p>DK is fine, new class new rules. It&#8217;s no different to &#8216;Oh, I can&#8217;t get a mount till 60?&#8217; &#8216;That sucks but I guess those are the rules&#8217;</p>
<p>Just my two penneth =)</p>
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		<title>By: Felkan</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8294</link>
		<dc:creator>Felkan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@BBB:  Good point about the wasteland for noobs.  I thought of this feature as a way to keep existing players in the game (making alts but with less time leveling), but at the same time it would undermine development of new players (since very few other players would be around to learn from) at least until they hit lvl 55.

And with professions, on a PvP server having a bunch of lvl 55 going back to Thousand Needles to farm iron and silver would be a nightmare for the lvl 24 noobs in the same zone.  Though if they set professions at ~250 this wouldn&#039;t be much of an issue.  But who would buy lowbe mats?

Ugh!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@BBB:  Good point about the wasteland for noobs.  I thought of this feature as a way to keep existing players in the game (making alts but with less time leveling), but at the same time it would undermine development of new players (since very few other players would be around to learn from) at least until they hit lvl 55.</p>
<p>And with professions, on a PvP server having a bunch of lvl 55 going back to Thousand Needles to farm iron and silver would be a nightmare for the lvl 24 noobs in the same zone.  Though if they set professions at ~250 this wouldn&#8217;t be much of an issue.  But who would buy lowbe mats?</p>
<p>Ugh!</p>
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		<title>By: Lassirra</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/comment-page-1/#comment-8293</link>
		<dc:creator>Lassirra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/07/22/leveling-grind-what-leveling-grind/#comment-8293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is actually something I&#039;ve been wishing Blizzard would implement for quite a while. To me, the lower levels get boring after the 3rd or 4th time through, no matter how many new little tweaks they add (like the new quests in Duskwallow). Also, often times I feel like the leveling process is just a means to an end. Now, I realize not everyone feels the way I do, which is why I would prefer an optional &quot;auto level&quot; process like you describe. I figure, already having three 70s, chances are that by now I understand how the game works. So, let me start new characters past all the boring crap I&#039;ve done a million times and don&#039;t need or want to see again, but still leave me a ways from the cap to give me a chance to learn the new class.

I really hope this is something Blizzard will implement at some point, though I kind of doubt it&#039;ll ever happen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is actually something I&#8217;ve been wishing Blizzard would implement for quite a while. To me, the lower levels get boring after the 3rd or 4th time through, no matter how many new little tweaks they add (like the new quests in Duskwallow). Also, often times I feel like the leveling process is just a means to an end. Now, I realize not everyone feels the way I do, which is why I would prefer an optional &#8220;auto level&#8221; process like you describe. I figure, already having three 70s, chances are that by now I understand how the game works. So, let me start new characters past all the boring crap I&#8217;ve done a million times and don&#8217;t need or want to see again, but still leave me a ways from the cap to give me a chance to learn the new class.</p>
<p>I really hope this is something Blizzard will implement at some point, though I kind of doubt it&#8217;ll ever happen.</p>
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