I took two weeks off without playing the game at all, I went out and did things. At the end of the two weeks, I was ready to come back and “rested”. I should have realized at the time that the game should be rest, I shouldn’t need a vacation from my fun free time.
I left the guild and went to a BT-clearing, Sunwell progression guild. I’ve met many people in the game, but really only one who I would consider a real-life friend – someone who knows things about me other than me in the game. I don’t mean where I’m from or where I live or my job, I mean… one person who KNOWS me, who I would consider a best friend. We’d been in the same guild as one another for almost a year, even transferred servers together at one point. Our friendship suffered a lot from my departure, they weren’t ready to make that step. They were as unhappy as I was with the management in the old guild but didn’t want to step up.

After a few months of raiding BT/Sunwell, meeting new people, and losing old friendships, I realized what was happening to me and that the game isn’t about raiding and skill and progression. I was on a Sunday raid, not feeling well, realizing all of my friends were back in the old guild, and we had a huge rain storm. My internet disconnected on a power bump and I simply didn’t log back in. For a week, I didn’t play, I called friends I hadn’t talked to in a year, I went out for walks. I was a WoW addict. That was two months ago. I spent a month after I came back just playing my friend’s druid, farming them some herbs but mostly fishing. I played about an hour a day, but I spent most of my time writing with people, being a friend. I farmed the Crawdad box :) for my friend’s druid.

Since then, I’ve been guildless. I still do 3 to 4 hour kara runs once a week with FRIENDS, no matter what guild they’re in, and in fact most of them are still in the guild I used to be in. I talk with people more now than I ever did, and I don’t play that often – mostly on the weekends. I have a full friends list of people I can talk with and enjoy being in their company.

My friends in-game don’t begrudge for my move. They know that I’m unguilded now and there to spend time with them.

Add to that the dying of the guild I was in because the GM got a new job and moved to a higher progression guild that raids at a later time, leaving the two AGMs with no leadership skills in charge.

The full compliment of 10man raids in WotLK will really balance out those that want to be friends and play together, have fun with difficult content but laugh and have a good time. How many people can honestly say that they’ve been in a 25 man (gah, or even a 40 man) where they were friends with everyone in the raid? How many can say that about 10mans? I can honestly say that since I left hardcore raiding and run kara/ZA now strictly with friends, I lead the raids and pick my own people who I enjoy spending time with. Occassionally we have to pug a couple but it ends up being ok in the end and we have a great time.

First I love this conversation! It’s great to hear different people’s takes on guild membership.
Second I will take on your challenge. I’ve written returning players in a post titled “Second Chances” here; http://www.chickgm.com/second-chances I suppose it is time to take take on the topic of summer slump + expansion + Sunwell is hard.

I just left a guild precisely because of this issue with friendly guild versus progression guild. I tried to explain to them why I left, and that they really /were/ a progression guild – but they wouldn’t listen. I didn’t put it nearly as well as you, of course, and probably couldn’t make myself understood.

They had started recruiting and those recruited were wanted specifically for their talents, not for their personability or due to friendship. Once that started happening, well … I’d rather play with friends.

Thank you for putting things so well.

We accept people who 1: fit in with our guild, 2: have a sense of humor and 3: have decent knowledge of how to play (Note, not UBEROMG, but you aren’t a level 70 mage saying, “You can’t resheep something once it’s been sheeped once.” (real life moment, seriously. It happened.))

I took my “main”, my ‘lock, out of KoU to have access to higher raid content. Every single other one of my characters is in KoU. I raid with KoU as well with my warlock. Other than not having access to the guild chat and having a different name under my lock, I’m still in KoU for all intents and purposes. All my other characters are in KoU not because I HAVE to be, but because I want to be.

We have a hemorrhage of people leaving us to go to bigger better things… and then want to come back. It’s tough to figure out what to do. Some people, we let back in, depending on how they left and who they left in the guild and what they do with the guild even though they’re raiding with someone else. Other people, we politely hedge but deny membership.

Is it a tough call? Yes. It is. And I’m not sure there’s one real solution out there. It’s a case by case basis, I think.

Of course, I would not have the audacity to ask to come back if it weren’t for one thing – I can almost guarantee that I will be sticking around. The main thing that convinces me of this? 10 man raiding (and the fact that as of next year I will be working in a job which makes incredible demands on my time). I know that I have been bitten by the raiding bug, which means I know that no matter how much I love the people in my guild, my desire to raid will eventually win out. It is in this that I am thankful there is 10man raiding (whatever the hardcore raiders say about it being EZ Mode… bah to them!)

So, when looking at taking people back, what would you consider? Definitely the person, and the circumstances in which they left. I gave plenty of notice, and took no more loot from Kara based upon my leaving (in fact, I think I stopped even taking a spot), and farewelled everyone. I have kept in contact, and my alts are almost ALL in that guild. If they left under bad circumstances, and genuinely are sorry, then I would consider taking them back… but certainly without privileges, and on a very trial basis. It is tough to judge without seeing the person.

The unspoken truth here is so often when this happens we are glad they left, and that’s probably the type of person you meant. The loot whiners, drama queens, powergamers, that caused problems when in the guild. Maybe not lots of drama, but annoyed people enough that no one was all that unhappy when they left. Those people sure, they’re not wanted back. (I’ve seen these people get kicked from their raid guilds too for bad behavior).

But there’s other instances of people who I was friends with who remained friends. They just wanted to do other things. They I would welcome back. Because I knew they are good people who just wanted to do something else. I eventually left my guild to raid after it was dead. Before that I raided in a coalition so I could remain in my guild.

I’ve been on the receiving end of the bitterness too. And it’s like “wow I thought I knew this person” and hurts. But then you get over it and are glad you don’t talk to them much anymore, if that’s how they are, they’re just toxic.

Cause the truth is even in the rest of just life in general, even with adults, if you socialize less with a group and more with others, people from that group will be mad and think to themselves “you think you’re better than me?” and won’t want to be socialize with you at all. This happens even in your 30s (I’m not 40 yet but I’ll let you know if those things still happen :) ).

And I guess maybe we should rise above that. Maybe you can be careful without being bitter. It’s hard to walk that line. I guess it’s about the golden rule. Forgive people many times over, but also don’t “cast your pearls before swine”.

Or…we could go with “Her most leet-uber-awesomeness”…has a nice ring to it.

=P

There are those who are friends, friends from the start and will allways be friends. They should naturally be let back in. Everyone plays the game they way they like to otherwise you get burned out and I think most people go through phases. They want to try hardcore for awhile and then go back to casual or their schedule changes or whatever.

The first guild I was in that I loved got turned inside out for the sake of progression to the point where it wasn’t any fun for anyone… even those pushing so hard to progress and it led to the guild being disbanded.

So… I guess all this to say that I agree with you BBB on pretty much everything that you said. If I were a GM I would take the same stance. The guild I am in currently pretty much does the same.

I really like that you guys got right to the core issue about trust and whether bringing someone back that left may hurt the people already in the guild and cause drama, against whether it’s right NOT to let them back in and give them a second chance.

It feels good chatting with folks that go right to how the people in the guild will feel, rather than issues about loot or progression. It really does.