Comments on: A look at our Bear Tanking future in Wrath http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/ Feral Druids in World of Warcraft Wed, 23 May 2012 05:49:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Tynny http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9791 Tynny Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:33:43 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9791 Excelent post. I'm incredibly worried this is going to cause a lot more trouble than its worth, and I'm worried this will be offputting to a number of current druid tanks contining to play as a bear. Currently rogues were upset at sharing gear with hunters a problem thats been fixed now with int/atp change (although on exceptional pieces it will still remain I'm sure) For example, T6 helm now has the less armour than the Cursed vision of sargaras, an item I waited a great deal of time for as an offspec item. It with the upcomming changes offer more stamina (via socket bonus) and tanking stats we could use, like hit rating and omg crit, with the loss of 8 agility. While yeah its old gear, it kinda screws a lot of peoples thoughts. Will i be able to tank brutalus now with 25k armour in bear? I have no doubt we will have the stam and the dodge to be equal to our plate wearing chums, but I'm seriously worried that we will be a bitch to heal those times we do get a pounding. Excelent post. I’m incredibly worried this is going to cause a lot more trouble than its worth, and I’m worried this will be offputting to a number of current druid tanks contining to play as a bear. Currently rogues were upset at sharing gear with hunters a problem thats been fixed now with int/atp change (although on exceptional pieces it will still remain I’m sure)

For example, T6 helm now has the less armour than the Cursed vision of sargaras, an item I waited a great deal of time for as an offspec item. It with the upcomming changes offer more stamina (via socket bonus) and tanking stats we could use, like hit rating and omg crit, with the loss of 8 agility.

While yeah its old gear, it kinda screws a lot of peoples thoughts. Will i be able to tank brutalus now with 25k armour in bear? I have no doubt we will have the stam and the dodge to be equal to our plate wearing chums, but I’m seriously worried that we will be a bitch to heal those times we do get a pounding.

]]> By: FranktheTank http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9788 FranktheTank Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:11:15 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9788 As new lvl 70 druid, it's bad to hear that they thing we are too good at DPS and Tanking. I find it hard enough to keep aggro as it is, and DPS is the only consistent way. It's nice that they want to let us drink pots in bear from, but there are macros available that do quick switches between caster and bear forms, thank you. Also glad to hear that it's not just me that thinks the heavy clefthoof set bonuses are off. I hope they at least keep the DPS/Tanking differentiation towards the bottom of the tree. If it does, I could easily see people taking the cat side of the talent side tree, along with SotF, and then relying on the gear for tanking. Incidentally, the new leatherworking patterns will have the ability to add +90 stamina to bracers - which combined the increased armor for rogues quoted in this article might give them an advantage... As new lvl 70 druid, it’s bad to hear that they thing we are too good at DPS and Tanking. I find it hard enough to keep aggro as it is, and DPS is the only consistent way. It’s nice that they want to let us drink pots in bear from, but there are macros available that do quick switches between caster and bear forms, thank you. Also glad to hear that it’s not just me that thinks the heavy clefthoof set bonuses are off. I hope they at least keep the DPS/Tanking differentiation towards the bottom of the tree. If it does, I could easily see people taking the cat side of the talent side tree, along with SotF, and then relying on the gear for tanking. Incidentally, the new leatherworking patterns will have the ability to add +90 stamina to bracers – which combined the increased armor for rogues quoted in this article might give them an advantage…

]]> By: SuraBear http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9783 SuraBear Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:07:26 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9783 Not exactly, BW. The problem is, base paw damage is based on level (up to 60, at which point it stagnates). However, that would mean your DPS scaling would be extremely subpar as you progress through level 80 content. The rogue's weapon DPS would continue to go up, while your paw's base damage would stay the same from quest greens to T9 weapons. Not exactly, BW. The problem is, base paw damage is based on level (up to 60, at which point it stagnates). However, that would mean your DPS scaling would be extremely subpar as you progress through level 80 content. The rogue’s weapon DPS would continue to go up, while your paw’s base damage would stay the same from quest greens to T9 weapons.

]]> By: BW http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9753 BW Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:55:10 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9753 So I was wondering, if they want to reduce items that give feral AP and they want us to do comparable DPS to that of a rogue, why don't our paws have an increased base damage? I'm mean really, wouldn't that shoot two birds with one stone? So I was wondering, if they want to reduce items that give feral AP and they want us to do comparable DPS to that of a rogue, why don’t our paws have an increased base damage? I’m mean really, wouldn’t that shoot two birds with one stone?

]]> By: David http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9747 David Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:18:12 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9747 I have to say that it's disappointing to see that Blizzard hasn't yet put much thought into druids, as druids seem to be performing miserably in beta right now. One might think they get the basic stuff done during an early stage of development and use the beta stage for any tweaking or bugfixing. After all they have all the formulas, know the bosses, etc. and they could have tested all these game mechanics before even one line of code was written... From Ghostcrawlers posts I get the idea that they still have a lot of work to do, in order to divide cat and bear apart. It's okay to be not the raids top damage dealer or primary tank, when we can switch between the to roles easily. Deciding whether we want be cat or bear is okay for me as well, but as soon as we're forced to decide, being just a "viable tank" or a "viable damage dealer" is not an option anymore. So I guess there has to be done more than just adding a few more talents. It's however good to see that we (if everything works out) can use the same amor items for bear and for cat. And I'm not worried about competing with rogues for gear, other classes have to compete with up to two other classes, and from what I've seen, if you're the tank, others will pass on the stuff for you if they know that you need it. I have to say that it’s disappointing to see that Blizzard hasn’t yet put much thought into druids, as druids seem to be performing miserably in beta right now.
One might think they get the basic stuff done during an early stage of development and use the beta stage for any tweaking or bugfixing. After all they have all the formulas, know the bosses, etc. and they could have tested all these game mechanics before even one line of code was written…

From Ghostcrawlers posts I get the idea that they still have a lot of work to do, in order to divide cat and bear apart. It’s okay to be not the raids top damage dealer or primary tank, when we can switch between the to roles easily. Deciding whether we want be cat or bear is okay for me as well, but as soon as we’re forced to decide, being just a “viable tank” or a “viable damage dealer” is not an option anymore. So I guess there has to be done more than just adding a few more talents.

It’s however good to see that we (if everything works out) can use the same amor items for bear and for cat. And I’m not worried about competing with rogues for gear, other classes have to compete with up to two other classes, and from what I’ve seen, if you’re the tank, others will pass on the stuff for you if they know that you need it.

]]> By: sable http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9746 sable Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:37:27 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9746 hi guys, i have been thinking a lot about loot homogenization especially in relation to druids. it seems that leather gear will be shared with rogues and tank cloaks/rings will be shared with the other tanks. In a way this makes sense as useless drops to the whole raid were a problem. The issue is we all need differant stats.... ...but... what if.. the awesome ring of tankness had various stats as now but varied according to which class picked it up... so a ring with str/stam/agl/whatever had either armour for druids/dk or shield block for war/pally. this way the drops are useful to someone more often and also have the stats they most want. then i thought... no int on rogue stuff. well most of the time we don't want int but moreso pvp. kitties don't really need armour but bears do..... what if having made gear different slightly for diff classes druid gear changed slightly with form. so armour went to AP in cat form or crit to armour in bear form or whatever... and some stats from feral gear converted to SP/int in caster form..... not massive amounts. not OP stuff just enough to allow us to be hybrids once more in PVP as feral. enough so that itemisation points aren't wasted. the 1st part allowing stats on the same gear to vary with the class to which owns it (as soulbound item) would help every class but the 2nd part seems to solve the no mana/ our heals are a waste of time issue. just to be clear i am asking that our heals in feral gear be similar to an enhance shammy in enhance gear with the stats change with form gear. not a total feral gear becomes out and out caster gear in caster form. i will cease rambling now but i wanted to ask what people think in a safe druid area 1st. can people make sense of what i am saying? if so do my ideas have any potential traction??? should i just shut up? hi guys,
i have been thinking a lot about loot homogenization especially in relation to druids.
it seems that leather gear will be shared with rogues and tank cloaks/rings will be shared with the other tanks. In a way this makes sense as useless drops to the whole raid were a problem. The issue is we all need differant stats….
…but…
what if..
the awesome ring of tankness had various stats as now but varied according to which class picked it up… so a ring with str/stam/agl/whatever had either armour for druids/dk or shield block for war/pally.
this way the drops are useful to someone more often and also have the stats they most want.
then i thought…
no int on rogue stuff. well most of the time we don’t want int but moreso pvp. kitties don’t really need armour but bears do….. what if having made gear different slightly for diff classes druid gear changed slightly with form. so armour went to AP in cat form or crit to armour in bear form or whatever…
and some stats from feral gear converted to SP/int in caster form….. not massive amounts. not OP stuff just enough to allow us to be hybrids once more in PVP as feral. enough so that itemisation points aren’t wasted.
the 1st part allowing stats on the same gear to vary with the class to which owns it (as soulbound item) would help every class but the 2nd part seems to solve the no mana/ our heals are a waste of time issue.
just to be clear i am asking that our heals in feral gear be similar to an enhance shammy in enhance gear with the stats change with form gear. not a total feral gear becomes out and out caster gear in caster form.
i will cease rambling now but i wanted to ask what people think in a safe druid area 1st. can people make sense of what i am saying? if so do my ideas have any potential traction??? should i just shut up?

]]> By: tkc http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9741 tkc Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:37:28 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9741 From the looks of things, if I want to tank, I'd better level my warrior and keep my druid spec'd resto. /sigh From the looks of things, if I want to tank, I’d better level my warrior and keep my druid spec’d resto. /sigh

]]> By: Tesk http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9716 Tesk Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:50:14 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9716 Personally I see the problem as being that we're told one thing and seeing another. We're told that we'll be viable tanks in end-game content, and then looking at gear that drops from that content and we wonder how that's possible given the current stats. My 70 feral is in beta right now. I leave him at 70 because I like to compare my stats, and currently the only thing that makes the outlook bleak is gear itemization. Side-by-side comparison with his stats wearing the exact same gear on the live server vs. beta: in beta he gains 20 armor, about 300 health, 1.7% dodge, and 600 ap. All gains. I think he loses 1% crit or something. However, that's wearing level 70 gear (some tier 4, some pvp gear, some badge/rep vendor stuff - the usual feral piecemeal). But at level 80, the gear is apparently going to be VERY different. I'm not exactly happy with the way things look to be going for us, but I do remain at least partially optimistic. I've been a feral that's picked up Nightbane after the main tank has gone down. I tanked him to the next flight phase, popped a battle rez on the tank, dropped back into kitty, and kept going to the kill. All in DPS gear. The idea that my talents determine if I'm DPS as opposed to my gearset determining that is a nice thought to me. Less gear to lug around, and I'll be even better capable of maximizing my effectiveness as a hybrid. If they can pull it off that is. Still, I shed a tear at the loss of my massive amounts of armor... Personally I see the problem as being that we’re told one thing and seeing another. We’re told that we’ll be viable tanks in end-game content, and then looking at gear that drops from that content and we wonder how that’s possible given the current stats.

My 70 feral is in beta right now. I leave him at 70 because I like to compare my stats, and currently the only thing that makes the outlook bleak is gear itemization. Side-by-side comparison with his stats wearing the exact same gear on the live server vs. beta: in beta he gains 20 armor, about 300 health, 1.7% dodge, and 600 ap. All gains. I think he loses 1% crit or something.

However, that’s wearing level 70 gear (some tier 4, some pvp gear, some badge/rep vendor stuff – the usual feral piecemeal). But at level 80, the gear is apparently going to be VERY different.

I’m not exactly happy with the way things look to be going for us, but I do remain at least partially optimistic. I’ve been a feral that’s picked up Nightbane after the main tank has gone down. I tanked him to the next flight phase, popped a battle rez on the tank, dropped back into kitty, and kept going to the kill. All in DPS gear. The idea that my talents determine if I’m DPS as opposed to my gearset determining that is a nice thought to me. Less gear to lug around, and I’ll be even better capable of maximizing my effectiveness as a hybrid. If they can pull it off that is.

Still, I shed a tear at the loss of my massive amounts of armor…

]]> By: Llangar http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9707 Llangar Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:56:03 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9707 I just wanted to point out that no one is hating on GhostCrawler or Blizzard. We have two viable raiding builds: healing and tanking. After the expansion some builds will be left in the cold. You can tell people that every build in every class will be equal, and that's what they're trying to do, but it won't happen in reality. I do believe players with a more involved base get more attention. Case in point: GhostCrawler today to Moonkin's: "[Sorry,] I am focused on tanking an awful lot right now." I just wanted to point out that no one is hating on GhostCrawler or Blizzard. We have two viable raiding builds: healing and tanking. After the expansion some builds will be left in the cold. You can tell people that every build in every class will be equal, and that’s what they’re trying to do, but it won’t happen in reality.

I do believe players with a more involved base get more attention. Case in point: GhostCrawler today to Moonkin’s: “[Sorry,] I am focused on tanking an awful lot right now.”

]]> By: Andrinal http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/comment-page-1/#comment-9706 Andrinal Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:23:33 +0000 http://thebigbearbutt.com/2008/09/08/a-look-at-our-bear-tanking-future-in-wrath/#comment-9706 I have to say, I don't understand the hate. If I read through Ghostcrawler's posts I see two themes: 1) All tanks will be equally good 2) You will have to choose to be a better tank or dps (or mid-level both) The response seems to be, Ghostcrawler is lying, druids will suck. Or the claim that after 5 years of work building the most successful game ever Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing. Maybe I am Mr. Sunshine but I'll take what she says at face value and I am excited about Wrath. Also, related to armor; Ghostcrawler says pretty clearly we will get more mitigation abilities to make up for lost armor. OK, I'm good with that. Why assume she is not being truthful? I like the idea of picking from a wider range of gear, rather than having to go with the limited high-armor pieces. Frankly, I don't see the part in any of this that says, "Feral Druids will not be viable tanks". In fact I see her state very clearly the exact opposite. I have to say, I don’t understand the hate. If I read through Ghostcrawler’s posts I see two themes:

1) All tanks will be equally good
2) You will have to choose to be a better tank or dps (or mid-level both)

The response seems to be, Ghostcrawler is lying, druids will suck. Or the claim that after 5 years of work building the most successful game ever Blizzard doesn’t know what they are doing.

Maybe I am Mr. Sunshine but I’ll take what she says at face value and I am excited about Wrath.

Also, related to armor; Ghostcrawler says pretty clearly we will get more mitigation abilities to make up for lost armor. OK, I’m good with that. Why assume she is not being truthful?

I like the idea of picking from a wider range of gear, rather than having to go with the limited high-armor pieces.

Frankly, I don’t see the part in any of this that says, “Feral Druids will not be viable tanks”. In fact I see her state very clearly the exact opposite.

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