Mania and BRK have already weighed in on the subject, and that should be enough for anyone, but what the heck, I love my Beastmaster Hunter. Been playing my Hunter all the time lately. So I’ll fire up my ‘Aspect of the Long Winded’ and take a shot at it.

First, let me quote Mania quoting Ghostcrawler’s post:

Hunters of all specs, and particularly Beastmaster, are doing too much damage in PvE.

We tested this a lot internally in beta and knew hunters were high but we hoped other classes would be able to catch up in a way they have as yet been unable to do. We want to be careful not to hurt hunter dps too much in PvP, so we’re taking most of the damage out of Steady Shot and Volley. Beastmaster hunters are in addition losing some of their pet dps. We still want BMs to have the best pets, but pet dps numbers are a little high at the moment. We are also still concerned about hunter survivability in PvP and taking the opportunity to jazz up Deterrence into something that looks and plays a little more interesting.

These are not all of the changes we are working on for hunters, but those changes we feel are ready for testing. We hope to get these changes up on the PTR so players will have a chance to test them out and respond before they go live.
1.        Steady Shot – now only gains 10% of attack power as damage (down from 20%).
2.        Volley – reduced the damage by about 30% for all ranks. Note that AE damage from many classes is very high right now and we are looking at all of them. Volley in particular had reached the point where some hunters were using it to the exclusion of most other attacks.
3.        Readiness – no longer affects the cooldown of Bestial Wrath.
4.        Deterrence – has been completely overhauled. It now allows you to deflect 100% of incoming melee or spell damage for 5 seconds, but prevents you from attacking while active. You still must be facing the attacker to deflect the damage (this is a limitation we are trying and might end up removing). 60 sec cooldown.
5.        Kill Shot – cooldown reduced to 15 sec (from 35 sec).
6.        Kindred Spirits – now only grants 3/6/9/12/15% pet damage.
7.        Serpent’s Swiftness – now only grants 2/4/6/8/10% bonus attack speed to pet.
8.        All hunter pet abilities with a cooldown longer than 30 sec have been moved off the global cooldown.
9.        Growl— threat generation increased by 20% (same for Voidwalker Torment).
10.        Call of the Wild – now benefits only the hunter and his or her pet.
11.        Rake and Scorpid Poison – slightly nerfed to bring them into line with other pet abilities.
12.        Spirit Strike – reduced the period on the dot so it will work better with Longevity.
13.        Improved Tracking – now benefits damage to all included creature types as long as you are tracking one of them. You don’t have to swap around what you are tracking as much.
14.        Aspect of the Wild – now raid-wide.

Okay, my first take on this. They will reduce pet DPS, which provides threat as well as the damage, and boost Growl’s threat generation to compensate.

From the bottom of my heart, may I say, “Thank you”.

Thank you for having the forethought to recognize that if you reduce our pet DPS, that you are reducing our pet’s ability to hold aggro off us as we solo.

You might think that is a no-brainer, but we’ve seen other issues in previous class adjustments. If you want to reduce the Hunter overall DPS, that’s okay, just please don’t put even more brakes on my soloing DPS because my pet can’t put out the threat.

The change to Call of the Wild surprises me quite a bit, though.

Oh, I’m not saying it wasn’t powerful enough to need adjusting. No, I’m just surprised they are making it apply to Hunter and Pet only, instead of leaving it raid or group wide and just reducing it’s overall effect. It’s as deep into the pet tree as you can get, and you have to make a solid commitment to having it. For raiding Hunters, having a raid-wide occasional buff is fun, it makes you feel like you are contributing to the group instead of racing on the solo DPS charts. It’s sad to think they’ll pull it. I’d personally prefer that, rather than yank it entirely, they would treat it instead like they have the healing component of Shadow Priests, and give the Hunter and his Pet more benefit from the ability than the rest of the raid, but still give back something.

But, “Hey! How about that Kill Shot change?”

“mmmMMMMmmm… nummy!”

I like Kill Shot, I like the damage it puts up there. It really feels like a ‘finishing move’… except the damn thing is usually on cooldown more than half the time when I’m soloing. Reducing the cooldown WILL cause me to use it a lot more, to be LOOKING for it to be available to use a lot more. I like the concept of a Kill Shot, a single finishing move that says “I have chosen to end your struggle…. NOW, bitch!”.

In fact, I think it would be fun to have a macro that added a /say to Kill Shot, so whenever I trigger it, my hunter yells “BOOyah!”

Okay, it would be fun for about 5 minutes, and then everyone around me would be sick of it.

Talking about the changes is all well and good, but let’s look at the core argument here.

“Hunters of all specs, and particularly Beastmaster, are doing too much damage in PvE. ”

Can anyone seriously dispute that statement?

I’ve been saying the same thing since 3.1 came out. Beastmaster Hunters are godlike in PvE, and it’s been damn fun. We’ve been SO powerful, so consistently explosive on DPS charts, that I’m fairly complacent about any upcoming adjustments.

Because from the list of changes GC gave us, it doesn’t look, AT ALL, like a knee-jerk reaction that will bring us to our knees and nerf us to the ground, before building us back up sometime later.

It looks a lot more to me like a careful, reasoned, multi-structured adjustment that will tweak some things up, some things down, and mix it up somewhere in the middle.

Who woulda thunk it?

Now if only we’d get some more Feral Druid news, at least something more than clarification that we would be keeping the bonus armor on weapons, but wouldn’t get a multiplier on that armor.

C’mon GC, give me something more to chew on!

13 Responses to “Hunters? Yeah, you didn’t hear it here first!”
  1. Rob says:

    I ran an instance with two hunters, one 78, the other 80. It was ZulDrak i think, err the instance in ZD. Anyway as a boomkin I kept up with them readily, one was doing 800 dps, the other 1000 dps. This is no brag as to my awesomeness. However in my experience hunters aren’t doing all that much dps. I kinda like the volley change in that hunters wont feel the need to volley all the time.

  2. Alorina says:

    @Rob
    1000 dps for a lvl 80 hunter is really (and I mean really) low. I can easily pull off 1600 in my crappy blue quest rewards and left-over lvl 70 badge gear. I’ve seen wws reports from hunters in heroic gear pulling over 4k dps in Naxx.

    @BBB
    I was all full of QQ when I first read GC’s post but now that I’ve calmed down and had some time to think I agree that this is a reasonable way to approach how OP hunters (particularly BM hunters) are at the moment. I think we’ll see some small changes to the numbers before the changes go live as well. All in all I think it’ll turn out ok.

  3. Rohan says:

    The CotW change is because Blizzard wants to get away from having specific group composition within a raid. Making CotW a raid buff would guarantee that only a few specific pets would ever be allowed in raids. So individual buff it is.

  4. Beaker says:

    When i saw the changes i was less than pleased lets say. Even now I’ve cooled down I’m still leaning on the side of annoyed. Sorry but these changes are totally a new jerk reaction. For example, Hunter survivability in Arena is a hot issue but blizzard say they want to wait a full season to analyse this. Wotlk has been out less than a month and already they swing a mighty nerf bat our way. While other classes who have been OP since the echoes of doom patch have still snuck by unscaithed.

    I’ve raided and cleared all current content. Yes hunters are often top (someone has to be and why not the class that brings little else to raids besides dps and is quite frankly less than stellar in PvP) but hardly by the margins everyone seems to be quoting. Ret pallies, mages and boomkins for example have all been giving us a run for our money. And the different types of boss fights favour different classes, so we arent always top.

    I agree that volley needed to be nerfed..it was a bit OTT and was one of the reasons why we can rack up the damage in a raid where AOE trashing clearing seems to rule the roost.

    But the changes to serpent swiftness is quite obviously blizzard trying to force Haste onto us. While changing readiness to not affect Beastial Wrath is hardly required when the vast majority of hunters dont take it preferring to go for the 51 point talent in BM. Would it have been beneficial to PvP? who knows since it was removed before we even got to try it. Also we get a half thought out change to Deterence. Doesnt look like it removes snares or stuns and only works when facing a target…sigh…i preferred the old version which at least had the chance to proc the Monkey Glyph.

    Also remember that different classes scale at different rates with better gear. Who knows what things will look like in Ulduar.

    Sorry maybe i seem like im QQ and ranting but I love the class and have stuck with it through all the crap that blizz has sent our way….seems they haven’t learnt anything.

  5. menglor says:

    Hunters bring little else to the instance?

    Your kidding right?

    Hunters have the ability to stand in a corner and “bring it” while the tank and melee have to do run around Dance.

    I am not saying hunters are OP or not, but I just want to point out that their are certain aspects of the class that make you better then others.

    sustained DPS has more value then just high dps.

  6. Klinderas says:

    Well, I think we saw this one coming.
    As I mentioned elsewhere though, there are nice things!
    The growl improvement is great, that’s smart thinking on blizzards part. Plus, it might mean more tenacity pets other than gorillas running around.
    Spirit Strike is getting fixed, making the lucky few with a Spirit beast happy.
    Randomly, Aspect of the Wild is raid wide now. Well, that’s nice! A little random though, seeing as I’ve used the spell for 2 things only. Quagmiran and Heroic Quagmiran.
    I think probably one of the most interesting changes was that of readiness affecting Beastial Wrath. That pretty much shut down all the arguments of whether the 51st point in BM was worth it or not.

  7. Anon says:

    I’ve seen WWS reports of hunters doing 5.5k+ sustained single target dps on bosses using the BM/readiness spec with a scorpid or cat pet, which is far and away above what any other class can hope to reach at the current gear level. Frostfire mages can get in the neighborhood and I suspect that particular spell/spec may see a slight dmg reduction in the future as well.

    It’s also important to note that the haste change for Serpents Swiftness is only for the pet, BM hunters still won’t be looking for haste if this goes live as is.

  8. ARA says:

    Dont know much about hunters, sry but it sounds good to me. I was starting to get annoyed that unskilled hunters were continutally topping the damage charts in pve. I had no idea they were broken according to Blizzard too. Makes a lot of sense now.

    Bear-wise, just fyi (I understand your reasons entirely, I’m not trying to change your mind)… its been awesome. Bears are tanking it up like rockstars!!!! its a fantastic romp through 10/25 mans these last 2 weeks, tons of gear flowing thick and fast. The announced changes were very carefully worded to allow us to make intelligent gear choices in the meantime, and dont make a massive difference to the gear priorities. Sure it could all be very different in the end… but I dont care, I’m having too much fun.

    Fights are much more about strat than they are about gear (apart from obvious examples like heroic patchwerk), and the strats are all wonderful & fun. I think the days of merciless wipe-fests like teron gorefiend, lady vashj, even shade of aran are over.

  9. Beathooven says:

    “For raiding Hunters, having a raid-wide occasional buff is fun, it makes you feel like you are contributing to the group instead of racing on the solo DPS charts”
    Ferocious Inspiration. A 3% increase to damage, that is almost always up.

    I did normal VH last night as a 75 ret paladin, pushing around 1200 dps. There was a 77 BM hunter with a Devilsaur pushing 2100 dps on most of the fights (I lost quite a bit of dps to running around everywhere). His Devilsaur tanked the last boss, and did as much damage as I did. And he wasn’t trying all that hard.

    @Beaker: “Hunter survivability in Arena is a hot issue but blizzard say they want to wait a full season to analyse this”. The deterence change is Blizz actively acknowledging that Hunter survival in arena is pretty awful, and they’re looking at possible solutions. Admittedly it doesn’t seem like an awesome solution, but there are suspicions that once people become resilience capped that Hunters may well become a stronger arena choice (for 2v2 and 3v3 anyway), owing to having the best drain spell.

  10. Beaker says:

    “Hunters have the ability to stand in a corner and “bring it” while the tank and melee have to do run around Dance.”

    @menglor
    you can apply this thinkin to all ranged classes. plus there are many fights that favor melee over ranged, lol Go run CoT: Strat with a good pally and see if you can compete. Thadius also favors melee as they move around less. A lot of bosses require ranged to pick off adds, etc (ie malygos) while melee can go all out. Also heavy aoe bosses can kill pets far too quick, and the wintergrasp boss is even bugged against pets (mine has got “stuck” every time in there) Like I said I have cleared the current content and seen several classes competing with and besting BM hunters.

    @beathooven
    Blizzard has acknowledged hunter survivability and performance as aweful for several seasons now. they always claim they are looking into it. As for the best drain spell…yes drain teams were great fun back in s4….40 minute fights in 2v2 with a druid…

    Yes it is easy to get good dps as an average BM hunter (and great dps with some effort). Its the benefit / curse (huntards) of the class. doesnt mean that other classes arent capable of it.

  11. Stupid Mage says:

    The Steady Shot nerf is uncalled for. SV Hunters didn’t deserve it at all.

    Non-critting Volley would probably solve the Volley issue. Increasing the mana cost wouldn’t change anything.

    The BW/Readiness thing was OP but losing it is not a huge deal as so many Hunters didn’t use it anyway and it wasn’t in test/beta.

  12. Beaker says:

    agree with post above. Even if BM hunters deserved a nerf the fact is that MM/Surv dont. I played Survival in early naxx purely because we had no other mana batteries and it was seriously no fun, and without the expose weakness raid wide buff it felt really sub par.

    Your right about the BW/Readiness as well. Most BM hunters dont’ use it, even if they dont think much of exotic pets, purely because they prefer to spend 51+ points in the BM tree on Invgoration, Cobra Strikes, Kindred Spirits, etc.
    I’d of liked to have tried it for PvP/arena, though I still suspect that an MM build would still have been better.

    Oh well, lets see how things pan out and what makes it through the PTR.

  13. grimbeard says:

    yea, thanx a bunch… fuck my hunter once more

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