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	<title>Comments on: Well, that sure killed a group fast</title>
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	<description>Feral Druids in World of Warcraft</description>
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		<title>By: darksaturn7</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-13033</link>
		<dc:creator>darksaturn7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-13033</guid>
		<description>gurr &#039;of Kalecgos&#039; (how I lothe misspelling my own server &gt;.&lt;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gurr &#8216;of Kalecgos&#8217; (how I lothe misspelling my own server &gt;.&lt;)</p>
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		<title>By: darksaturn7</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-13032</link>
		<dc:creator>darksaturn7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-13032</guid>
		<description>I recall during bc, a horrid, beyond horrid heroic Mech. We were wiping over and over on the lady fire boss (she was damn hard pre nerf -then again we were wiping well before her). But the sham in our group really wanted something off of her. And well badges are badges. This group was mind you my geared mage, a rogue guildie, a decent priesty healer friend from a different guild, a bear tank, and this &#039;dps&#039; sham. I glanced at the meters. Hmm me and the rogue were doing awesome dps. The bear was....3rd. And the sham was barely doing half of what the tank was doing.  The healer would go oom healing the tank due to fights taking too long. Add to the fact that the guy would say unsavory things, questionable jokes, and seemed to not know what to do with himself once I corrected him that both me and my rogue guildie were not guys (le sigh). The rogue, priesty, and I were debating and finally decided to get a different  dps cause this was just not gunna work. I at least like to tell you what&#039;s up before it happens. The sham just flips out, then -in a stunning move of epic fail- agros the boss to wipe us. Well, this was before blizz made the beam gate close off the lift during boss fights to prevent resetting her. The other 3 had been closest to the door and stepped in. I just clicked invis, dropping agro, ran to the lift and rode down. The sham...well went splat. So as he had to rez outside (cause our healer sure as anything wouldn&#039;t) I ask, &#039;Did you enjoy your repair bill? :) &#039;. Then kicked him from group. PuGs are fun times indeed.

Hotaruchan of Kalegos (on vaca from WoW atm)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall during bc, a horrid, beyond horrid heroic Mech. We were wiping over and over on the lady fire boss (she was damn hard pre nerf -then again we were wiping well before her). But the sham in our group really wanted something off of her. And well badges are badges. This group was mind you my geared mage, a rogue guildie, a decent priesty healer friend from a different guild, a bear tank, and this &#8216;dps&#8217; sham. I glanced at the meters. Hmm me and the rogue were doing awesome dps. The bear was&#8230;.3rd. And the sham was barely doing half of what the tank was doing.  The healer would go oom healing the tank due to fights taking too long. Add to the fact that the guy would say unsavory things, questionable jokes, and seemed to not know what to do with himself once I corrected him that both me and my rogue guildie were not guys (le sigh). The rogue, priesty, and I were debating and finally decided to get a different  dps cause this was just not gunna work. I at least like to tell you what&#8217;s up before it happens. The sham just flips out, then -in a stunning move of epic fail- agros the boss to wipe us. Well, this was before blizz made the beam gate close off the lift during boss fights to prevent resetting her. The other 3 had been closest to the door and stepped in. I just clicked invis, dropping agro, ran to the lift and rode down. The sham&#8230;well went splat. So as he had to rez outside (cause our healer sure as anything wouldn&#8217;t) I ask, &#8216;Did you enjoy your repair bill? :) &#8216;. Then kicked him from group. PuGs are fun times indeed.</p>
<p>Hotaruchan of Kalegos (on vaca from WoW atm)</p>
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		<title>By: Mooster</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-13017</link>
		<dc:creator>Mooster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-13017</guid>
		<description>OK i know I&#039;m kinda late when it comes to posting up here but I got a nice story myself...
It was back in my ZF days, I, as BBB play a drood tank (Mooster of The Maelstrom EU if you want to know :P). Those were the days when i was still around 40 or something and did some 10th or something run of ZF for the head (that I never ever got on any of my chars). I had my girlfriend healing and a friend DPSign so it was only 2 dps left till we could go. So I go ok let&#039;s pug it and we get a mage and a warrior...
Everything&#039;s going fine up until the room packed with scarabs. We aoe down the scarabs since we needed some quest. And BAM a nice green head perfect for a tanking druid :P 
So I go &quot;yeeeey&quot; and click Need on it, all happy and with a warm and fuzzy feeling around my heart I&#039;m expecting it to get in my bags. And then all of a sudden I see the loot going to the warrior in the chat window. The entire group goes WTF?! So when we ask him why the heck did you take it he goes &quot;A friend needs it&quot;. So naturally everyone says give it to the tank but no, he won&#039;t even think about it. So we&#039;re all whispering each other on how do we take care of him, and come up with an eeeeevil plan &gt;:D
We remembered that on the beginning of the run he said he needed the Big Bad Pauldrons off the last boss so we say if the drop EVERYONE needs on them :D
So we all keep going, pissed as hell and get to the last boss without any major problems. So we attack and kill the boss. 
BIG BAD PAULDRONS drop... We&#039;re all whispering each other &quot;need?&quot; :P
So we all click Need and the rolls go:
The warrior 92
Me 100!!!!
So the warrior asks
&quot;Why did you need you noob?!?!?&quot;
And I, with a feeling of justice being served, calmly reply:
&quot;My friend needs it&quot;
&gt;:)
Nobody messes with the MooMan! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK i know I&#8217;m kinda late when it comes to posting up here but I got a nice story myself&#8230;<br />
It was back in my ZF days, I, as BBB play a drood tank (Mooster of The Maelstrom EU if you want to know :P). Those were the days when i was still around 40 or something and did some 10th or something run of ZF for the head (that I never ever got on any of my chars). I had my girlfriend healing and a friend DPSign so it was only 2 dps left till we could go. So I go ok let&#8217;s pug it and we get a mage and a warrior&#8230;<br />
Everything&#8217;s going fine up until the room packed with scarabs. We aoe down the scarabs since we needed some quest. And BAM a nice green head perfect for a tanking druid :P<br />
So I go &#8220;yeeeey&#8221; and click Need on it, all happy and with a warm and fuzzy feeling around my heart I&#8217;m expecting it to get in my bags. And then all of a sudden I see the loot going to the warrior in the chat window. The entire group goes WTF?! So when we ask him why the heck did you take it he goes &#8220;A friend needs it&#8221;. So naturally everyone says give it to the tank but no, he won&#8217;t even think about it. So we&#8217;re all whispering each other on how do we take care of him, and come up with an eeeeevil plan &gt;:D<br />
We remembered that on the beginning of the run he said he needed the Big Bad Pauldrons off the last boss so we say if the drop EVERYONE needs on them :D<br />
So we all keep going, pissed as hell and get to the last boss without any major problems. So we attack and kill the boss.<br />
BIG BAD PAULDRONS drop&#8230; We&#8217;re all whispering each other &#8220;need?&#8221; :P<br />
So we all click Need and the rolls go:<br />
The warrior 92<br />
Me 100!!!!<br />
So the warrior asks<br />
&#8220;Why did you need you noob?!?!?&#8221;<br />
And I, with a feeling of justice being served, calmly reply:<br />
&#8220;My friend needs it&#8221;<br />
&gt;:)<br />
Nobody messes with the MooMan! :D</p>
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		<title>By: lethal</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-12994</link>
		<dc:creator>lethal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-12994</guid>
		<description>You should have apologised to cassie first with a &#039;watch this&#039;, kicked her, invited the mage, kicked the huntard, reinvited cassie
Then you can enjoy the deliscious QQ from the huntard, and still have the rest of the good group :p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should have apologised to cassie first with a &#8216;watch this&#8217;, kicked her, invited the mage, kicked the huntard, reinvited cassie<br />
Then you can enjoy the deliscious QQ from the huntard, and still have the rest of the good group :p</p>
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		<title>By: Seleria</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-12989</link>
		<dc:creator>Seleria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-12989</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been highly entertained by flat out TERRIBLE dps here lately. I guess I&#039;m a little harsher... if we win, yay... but if it was painful to win, I&#039;m still not happy. I know tank dps has been increased with xpac. But we&#039;ve been running heroics where it&#039;s not uncommon for the tank to be #2 on dps and damage done. Something just doesn&#039;t sit right with me in that picture. And no, I know damage meters aren&#039;t the be-all-end-all of everything, the bf and I started running them when we were having PAINFUL times in heroics and I suggested that maybe it wasn&#039;t us sucking, but the dps. And sure enough, we&#039;d go and have crap for dps. Dps that ignore raid icons (which were there for a reason because if you kill skull first, that means there&#039;s only 3 other things beating on the tank, and you know... that hurts the tank less...) and generally just must be mashing their heads on keyboards to do as bad of dps as they are. One mage was pulling 600 dps. That&#039;s ummm... not quite right.

 Yay silly hunters &gt;&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been highly entertained by flat out TERRIBLE dps here lately. I guess I&#8217;m a little harsher&#8230; if we win, yay&#8230; but if it was painful to win, I&#8217;m still not happy. I know tank dps has been increased with xpac. But we&#8217;ve been running heroics where it&#8217;s not uncommon for the tank to be #2 on dps and damage done. Something just doesn&#8217;t sit right with me in that picture. And no, I know damage meters aren&#8217;t the be-all-end-all of everything, the bf and I started running them when we were having PAINFUL times in heroics and I suggested that maybe it wasn&#8217;t us sucking, but the dps. And sure enough, we&#8217;d go and have crap for dps. Dps that ignore raid icons (which were there for a reason because if you kill skull first, that means there&#8217;s only 3 other things beating on the tank, and you know&#8230; that hurts the tank less&#8230;) and generally just must be mashing their heads on keyboards to do as bad of dps as they are. One mage was pulling 600 dps. That&#8217;s ummm&#8230; not quite right.</p>
<p> Yay silly hunters &gt;&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Oscassey</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-12983</link>
		<dc:creator>Oscassey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-12983</guid>
		<description>I try to run H-VH daily, if only because I am a skinner. One trick your wife&#039;s rogue can do it open this way : Garotte on the first target to kill, Slice and Dice, Trick on you followed by Fan of Knives (and Blade Flurry - Killing Spree if combat and the boss is not coming next wave). If everybody follows the kill order, you should be set with aggro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I try to run H-VH daily, if only because I am a skinner. One trick your wife&#8217;s rogue can do it open this way : Garotte on the first target to kill, Slice and Dice, Trick on you followed by Fan of Knives (and Blade Flurry &#8211; Killing Spree if combat and the boss is not coming next wave). If everybody follows the kill order, you should be set with aggro.</p>
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		<title>By: Kupuka</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-12982</link>
		<dc:creator>Kupuka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-12982</guid>
		<description>Lol, it&#039;s sad when you, as a bear tank, do more dps than a dps on your group.
And my wife is a rogue too, in my guild.
Rolling my gear...
...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol, it&#8217;s sad when you, as a bear tank, do more dps than a dps on your group.<br />
And my wife is a rogue too, in my guild.<br />
Rolling my gear&#8230;<br />
&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-12979</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-12979</guid>
		<description>I think i&#039;m going to give up on PUGs.  At least I should know better when every single person in the group a) can&#039;t spell, b) &quot;I hope/need this from boss X&quot;.  I&#039;ve done probably half a dozen daily heroics as healer to groups that simply are bad.  And one that was a great effort but was just slightly undergeared (i mean we wiped 5x on hHOS with 5-10 seconds to go).  The last one was a Nexus run where the melee didn&#039;t move out of the melee, the tank didn&#039;t pull the heroic boss back nearly far enough, and yeah, was bad.  

As another story, I&#039;m the raid leader in a casual guild, trying to get a Gruul/Mag run together.  We were way short on people, so I posted one notice in /trade that we were looking for more for Gruul.  Instantly we got 7 or so 80s, very high geared.  They then proceeded to rip through the instance, going so far as to pulling gruul before people were even in the door.  My wife was left outside and didn&#039;t get the loot, or the achievement.    So not only did I piss her off, but also the rest of the guild.    Props to RLs of casual guilds that can pull it off every week.  I&#039;m having a hard time from week to week (although we did the first two bosses in BT on Sat!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think i&#8217;m going to give up on PUGs.  At least I should know better when every single person in the group a) can&#8217;t spell, b) &#8220;I hope/need this from boss X&#8221;.  I&#8217;ve done probably half a dozen daily heroics as healer to groups that simply are bad.  And one that was a great effort but was just slightly undergeared (i mean we wiped 5x on hHOS with 5-10 seconds to go).  The last one was a Nexus run where the melee didn&#8217;t move out of the melee, the tank didn&#8217;t pull the heroic boss back nearly far enough, and yeah, was bad.  </p>
<p>As another story, I&#8217;m the raid leader in a casual guild, trying to get a Gruul/Mag run together.  We were way short on people, so I posted one notice in /trade that we were looking for more for Gruul.  Instantly we got 7 or so 80s, very high geared.  They then proceeded to rip through the instance, going so far as to pulling gruul before people were even in the door.  My wife was left outside and didn&#8217;t get the loot, or the achievement.    So not only did I piss her off, but also the rest of the guild.    Props to RLs of casual guilds that can pull it off every week.  I&#8217;m having a hard time from week to week (although we did the first two bosses in BT on Sat!)</p>
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		<title>By: Aleyira</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-12977</link>
		<dc:creator>Aleyira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-12977</guid>
		<description>lol you have to love it when someone bad just tries to comandeer the entire group and run things for you.  Yesterday must&#039;ve been PITA day, I had a similar incident yesterday with a Heroic HoL pug on Sisters of Elune.  I was pugging around, saw a group in LFG heroic Nexus so I joined it, was told that we&#039;re going to HoL...as you know with H-Nexus, it&#039;s pretty much a joke you can kinda chainpull the whole thing...so I was like darn...actually have to work a little now.  But whatever, 2 guildies were in this pug also, so I didn&#039;t mind.

But we had a DK, Bigrips, who started the group and goes on and on about how he needs this axe from Loken.  So basically we&#039;re doing it for him, and I don&#039;t mind that much either since we&#039;ve all got those instances where the RNG just works against us and our item just NEVER drops!  So...we&#039;re going through the instance and he&#039;s continually, annoyingly, telling me how the pulls and encounters go (all the while I ignore him and just pull).  This one DK just can&#039;t get over himself about how he claims to have saved us from every wipe etc etc etc, meanwhile tbh really it was this amazing priest we had that pulled us through it.  On top of things, his dps was way below mine...tanking I was at around 1300dps or so, he was just barely peaking 1000.  I asked him if he was tank spec (which would explain it) and he says no.  All I can do is dot dot dot.  (I think &quot;L2PLAY&quot; to myself and dont scream it at him).

At the end of the day, the 4 of us pretty much carry this DK thru HoL to get his heroic axe, along the way we got the new guys 3 accomplishments, killed bjarnim with his lightning buff, we got volkan&#039;s achievement (shatter proof?), and downed loken in under 2 minutes...still..this DK continues to pat himself on the back.

Any one of these things, wouldn&#039;t be so much a big deal, but when you compound like that many annoying qualities into one person into 1 run AND underperform while patting yourself on the back for being a rockstar, UGH!  I needed a beer and some tylenol afterwards.

Needless to say, after heroic HoL we all dropped group, reformed without him and ran a few more xD

...OH!  and one other thing, later the DK whispers me that their DPS was low because they were wearing their tanking shoulders.  mmhm.  I&#039;m sure you were 200 DPS below the tank and like 600 dps below the rest of the DPS because of shoulders...unless they&#039;re grey level 10 shoulders, I REALLY doubt that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol you have to love it when someone bad just tries to comandeer the entire group and run things for you.  Yesterday must&#8217;ve been PITA day, I had a similar incident yesterday with a Heroic HoL pug on Sisters of Elune.  I was pugging around, saw a group in LFG heroic Nexus so I joined it, was told that we&#8217;re going to HoL&#8230;as you know with H-Nexus, it&#8217;s pretty much a joke you can kinda chainpull the whole thing&#8230;so I was like darn&#8230;actually have to work a little now.  But whatever, 2 guildies were in this pug also, so I didn&#8217;t mind.</p>
<p>But we had a DK, Bigrips, who started the group and goes on and on about how he needs this axe from Loken.  So basically we&#8217;re doing it for him, and I don&#8217;t mind that much either since we&#8217;ve all got those instances where the RNG just works against us and our item just NEVER drops!  So&#8230;we&#8217;re going through the instance and he&#8217;s continually, annoyingly, telling me how the pulls and encounters go (all the while I ignore him and just pull).  This one DK just can&#8217;t get over himself about how he claims to have saved us from every wipe etc etc etc, meanwhile tbh really it was this amazing priest we had that pulled us through it.  On top of things, his dps was way below mine&#8230;tanking I was at around 1300dps or so, he was just barely peaking 1000.  I asked him if he was tank spec (which would explain it) and he says no.  All I can do is dot dot dot.  (I think &#8220;L2PLAY&#8221; to myself and dont scream it at him).</p>
<p>At the end of the day, the 4 of us pretty much carry this DK thru HoL to get his heroic axe, along the way we got the new guys 3 accomplishments, killed bjarnim with his lightning buff, we got volkan&#8217;s achievement (shatter proof?), and downed loken in under 2 minutes&#8230;still..this DK continues to pat himself on the back.</p>
<p>Any one of these things, wouldn&#8217;t be so much a big deal, but when you compound like that many annoying qualities into one person into 1 run AND underperform while patting yourself on the back for being a rockstar, UGH!  I needed a beer and some tylenol afterwards.</p>
<p>Needless to say, after heroic HoL we all dropped group, reformed without him and ran a few more xD</p>
<p>&#8230;OH!  and one other thing, later the DK whispers me that their DPS was low because they were wearing their tanking shoulders.  mmhm.  I&#8217;m sure you were 200 DPS below the tank and like 600 dps below the rest of the DPS because of shoulders&#8230;unless they&#8217;re grey level 10 shoulders, I REALLY doubt that.</p>
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		<title>By: the1jeffy</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/01/11/well-that-sure-killed-a-group-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-12976</link>
		<dc:creator>the1jeffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1165#comment-12976</guid>
		<description>Not sure what that hunter was thinking would happen.  He would have had better luck simply asking right in the open if someone would mind switching out for his mage friend, who has decent DPS and would like to come along.  Perhaps his guildy would sit if he was feeling magnanimous and didn&#039;t need a drop there, or something.  At least then you have a &lt;i&gt;chance&lt;/i&gt; for getting what you want, even if it is slim to none.  Instead he chose the, &quot;On Jeff&#039;s Ignore List,&quot; route.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure what that hunter was thinking would happen.  He would have had better luck simply asking right in the open if someone would mind switching out for his mage friend, who has decent DPS and would like to come along.  Perhaps his guildy would sit if he was feeling magnanimous and didn&#8217;t need a drop there, or something.  At least then you have a <i>chance</i> for getting what you want, even if it is slim to none.  Instead he chose the, &#8220;On Jeff&#8217;s Ignore List,&#8221; route.</p>
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