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	<title>Comments on: Tanking the first boss in Azjol-Nerub</title>
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	<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/</link>
	<description>Feral Druids in World of Warcraft</description>
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		<title>By: Ends</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13794</link>
		<dc:creator>Ends</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 06:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess I&#039;ve been fortunate in my PUGs as we always get the first boss in 2 tries or less.  However, I have never successfully killed that last guy on heroic difficulty.  The first couple of times it was easy to write off as lack of DPS (one time we even got a fourth wave of adds!), but last nights run had awesome DPS and we still couldn&#039;t kill him.  Recount showed our DPS pulling 2300, 1800, and 1700 dps over the entire run before the last boss.  I was the healer and was pushing 2200 HPS during the fight.  But we still couldn&#039;t get him down.  Except for one try where the boss turned immediately before the pound and destroyed our melee DPS (and the tank eating it once), it wasn&#039;t much of a problem.  I will say that people weren&#039;t very good about getting out of the spikes,  but I suspect that was lag because I got caught in them twice even though I appeared to be on the other side of the platform at the time.  Anyway, I don&#039;t see what else we could be missing: we had tons of DPS, usually avoided poundings, but did often get caught in the spikes.  Is it really impossible to beat this guy unless everyone makes zero mistakes?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;ve been fortunate in my PUGs as we always get the first boss in 2 tries or less.  However, I have never successfully killed that last guy on heroic difficulty.  The first couple of times it was easy to write off as lack of DPS (one time we even got a fourth wave of adds!), but last nights run had awesome DPS and we still couldn&#8217;t kill him.  Recount showed our DPS pulling 2300, 1800, and 1700 dps over the entire run before the last boss.  I was the healer and was pushing 2200 HPS during the fight.  But we still couldn&#8217;t get him down.  Except for one try where the boss turned immediately before the pound and destroyed our melee DPS (and the tank eating it once), it wasn&#8217;t much of a problem.  I will say that people weren&#8217;t very good about getting out of the spikes,  but I suspect that was lag because I got caught in them twice even though I appeared to be on the other side of the platform at the time.  Anyway, I don&#8217;t see what else we could be missing: we had tons of DPS, usually avoided poundings, but did often get caught in the spikes.  Is it really impossible to beat this guy unless everyone makes zero mistakes?</p>
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		<title>By: wintermane</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13754</link>
		<dc:creator>wintermane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know these are all about strats for the first boss, but try this for a laugh on the second boss: have a rogue (or mage) aggro one of the first mobs waiting for you in the web-room where you&#039;d eventually fight the 2nd boss. Immediately after aggro&#039;ing, have them vanish (invis). Ta-dah! The room is clear of mobs, proceed onwards to find the big ugly spider boss waiting in farther into the dungeon (with your wonderful trinket) and get the achievement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know these are all about strats for the first boss, but try this for a laugh on the second boss: have a rogue (or mage) aggro one of the first mobs waiting for you in the web-room where you&#8217;d eventually fight the 2nd boss. Immediately after aggro&#8217;ing, have them vanish (invis). Ta-dah! The room is clear of mobs, proceed onwards to find the big ugly spider boss waiting in farther into the dungeon (with your wonderful trinket) and get the achievement.</p>
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		<title>By: Chadder</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13753</link>
		<dc:creator>Chadder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13753</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I prefer to enter the area and move to the far right side, not the left.  I was taught this in a pug, and it gives a lot more room to maneuver and see what&#039;s happening.  

In my opinion, the most important part of BBB&#039;s advice:  bring the dps.  If you don&#039;t have the first pack down before the next pack comes, leave your party and do some dailies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer to enter the area and move to the far right side, not the left.  I was taught this in a pug, and it gives a lot more room to maneuver and see what&#8217;s happening.  </p>
<p>In my opinion, the most important part of BBB&#8217;s advice:  bring the dps.  If you don&#8217;t have the first pack down before the next pack comes, leave your party and do some dailies.</p>
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		<title>By: Mitchbo</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13749</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitchbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13749</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the run through BBB.  Definitely going to try all this out.  Never knew about the skirmisher mechanics but it all makes sense now.  :)

Quick note: As a warrior tanking, you can use heroic throw coupled with the Gag Order talent to bring the Shadowcaster closer.  It will silence them due to Gag Order and cause high threat with the Heroic Throw.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the run through BBB.  Definitely going to try all this out.  Never knew about the skirmisher mechanics but it all makes sense now.  :)</p>
<p>Quick note: As a warrior tanking, you can use heroic throw coupled with the Gag Order talent to bring the Shadowcaster closer.  It will silence them due to Gag Order and cause high threat with the Heroic Throw.</p>
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		<title>By: Houghton</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13746</link>
		<dc:creator>Houghton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13746</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As far as i can remember, you can entangle the skirmisher and deal with him after the other 2.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as i can remember, you can entangle the skirmisher and deal with him after the other 2.</p>
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		<title>By: Javan</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13745</link>
		<dc:creator>Javan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We ran into an interesting problem last night in AN trying to get our off-tank the trinket:

First group, burned down fine.  Second group, burned down fine.  Third group, the boomkin&#039;s trees, the DK&#039;s ghoul, and the warlock&#039;s pet all went after the boss before the third group was pulled.

This caused us two wipes and got really frustrating.

The third time, nobody was allowed to use pets and it went smoothly.

Just something to watch for - I&#039;ve never seen it happen before and the pets were not set on Aggressive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We ran into an interesting problem last night in AN trying to get our off-tank the trinket:</p>
<p>First group, burned down fine.  Second group, burned down fine.  Third group, the boomkin&#8217;s trees, the DK&#8217;s ghoul, and the warlock&#8217;s pet all went after the boss before the third group was pulled.</p>
<p>This caused us two wipes and got really frustrating.</p>
<p>The third time, nobody was allowed to use pets and it went smoothly.</p>
<p>Just something to watch for &#8211; I&#8217;ve never seen it happen before and the pets were not set on Aggressive.</p>
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		<title>By: Cairnmaker</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13733</link>
		<dc:creator>Cairnmaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 07:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13733</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We tried this one night on heroic and couldn&#039;t get this down, it was late and we were all tired after runing back to back heroics all night.  As none of us had run AN more than once we didn&#039;t realize the packs were on a timer, this killed us over and over as I saw myself drop out of combat I&#039;d pop FF on the next pack and get to work, but the Second and Thrid packs would then activate simultaneously.  Very Bad.  The next morning, refreshed and ready, we decided we had to get back on the horse and I had a burst of inspiration and decided to wait for the next pack and sure enough, there was a timer linking them

TLDR version: Word to the wise, let them come to you on their own, don&#039;t try to chain pull the packs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We tried this one night on heroic and couldn&#8217;t get this down, it was late and we were all tired after runing back to back heroics all night.  As none of us had run AN more than once we didn&#8217;t realize the packs were on a timer, this killed us over and over as I saw myself drop out of combat I&#8217;d pop FF on the next pack and get to work, but the Second and Thrid packs would then activate simultaneously.  Very Bad.  The next morning, refreshed and ready, we decided we had to get back on the horse and I had a burst of inspiration and decided to wait for the next pack and sure enough, there was a timer linking them</p>
<p>TLDR version: Word to the wise, let them come to you on their own, don&#8217;t try to chain pull the packs.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellis (Eonar)</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13728</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellis (Eonar)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 03:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quick note:  Any class with a ranged interrupt can deal with the shadowcasters.  When I&#039;m running this with my RL buddies , our group composition looks like:  Tank Warrior, Tank DK, Elemental Shaman, Pally heals, Affliction Warlock.  As the warlock, 99% of the time I have a Felhunter out, and I pull the casters with Spell Lock.  Your DK could just as easily pull the caster in with Strangulate or Mind Freeze too.

On the plus side, I now know why Death Grip doesn&#039;t work on skirmishers when they switch aggro to me.  Apparently it&#039;s not just taunt that they&#039;re immune to while enraged.

The best advice I could add to this, btw, is that the 3 watchers each have one unique ability in addition to their shared skill set.

The far left one sprays poison on the whole group, which should really be cleansed ASAP.  Poison Cleansing Totems helps a bunch with him, but it doesn&#039;t really hit hard enough that I&#039;d consider it a necessity.

The watcher in the center group simply enrages periodically, but unlike most mob enrages, while his attack speed increases by 300%, the damage he deals per swing is cut in half.  Net result is a paltry 50% increase in damage, and at least one of the other mobs should be dead by the time that happens anyhow.  If you can heal your tank while he&#039;s being beat on by the previous packs, you probably won&#039;t even notice this guy does anything special.

The watcher in the far right group has possibly the worst ability, &quot;Blinding Webs&quot;, which disorients your whole group for 5 seconds.  Not only does this mean that your healer won&#039;t be able to heal your tank/group, it also means that your tank won&#039;t benefit from any of his avoidance for the duration either, so he&#039;ll be taking some pretty nasty damage.  Short of having a tank with truly prodigious amounts of stamina, the only other way to ensure you survive this is to make sure that either the tank or someone with heals can trinket/racial out of the disorient.  (Humans have &quot;Every man for himself&quot;, I&#039;m not sure what else works, but I know that does.  Fortunately for us, our regular group has a human tank *and* human healer, and this fight still gives us hell.)

Honestly though, I have to agree with some of the others on this.  Heroic AN is *the* gear-check heroic, just for this event.  Highly skilled and well prepared players might squeeze through a little earlier (gear wise) than most, but I really can&#039;t see any way you could clear this with a &quot;heroic entry level&quot; group simply for lack of the required DPS to drop each group in the time allotted.

On  the plus side, once you can get it down consistently, Heroic AN takes about 20 minutes, so I love seeing this as the &quot;Proof of Demise&quot; daily now.  It&#039;s not quite the &quot;Mechanar of WotLK&quot;, but it&#039;s close.

Next step:  The &quot;Watch Him Die&quot; achievement. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick note:  Any class with a ranged interrupt can deal with the shadowcasters.  When I&#8217;m running this with my RL buddies , our group composition looks like:  Tank Warrior, Tank DK, Elemental Shaman, Pally heals, Affliction Warlock.  As the warlock, 99% of the time I have a Felhunter out, and I pull the casters with Spell Lock.  Your DK could just as easily pull the caster in with Strangulate or Mind Freeze too.</p>
<p>On the plus side, I now know why Death Grip doesn&#8217;t work on skirmishers when they switch aggro to me.  Apparently it&#8217;s not just taunt that they&#8217;re immune to while enraged.</p>
<p>The best advice I could add to this, btw, is that the 3 watchers each have one unique ability in addition to their shared skill set.</p>
<p>The far left one sprays poison on the whole group, which should really be cleansed ASAP.  Poison Cleansing Totems helps a bunch with him, but it doesn&#8217;t really hit hard enough that I&#8217;d consider it a necessity.</p>
<p>The watcher in the center group simply enrages periodically, but unlike most mob enrages, while his attack speed increases by 300%, the damage he deals per swing is cut in half.  Net result is a paltry 50% increase in damage, and at least one of the other mobs should be dead by the time that happens anyhow.  If you can heal your tank while he&#8217;s being beat on by the previous packs, you probably won&#8217;t even notice this guy does anything special.</p>
<p>The watcher in the far right group has possibly the worst ability, &#8220;Blinding Webs&#8221;, which disorients your whole group for 5 seconds.  Not only does this mean that your healer won&#8217;t be able to heal your tank/group, it also means that your tank won&#8217;t benefit from any of his avoidance for the duration either, so he&#8217;ll be taking some pretty nasty damage.  Short of having a tank with truly prodigious amounts of stamina, the only other way to ensure you survive this is to make sure that either the tank or someone with heals can trinket/racial out of the disorient.  (Humans have &#8220;Every man for himself&#8221;, I&#8217;m not sure what else works, but I know that does.  Fortunately for us, our regular group has a human tank *and* human healer, and this fight still gives us hell.)</p>
<p>Honestly though, I have to agree with some of the others on this.  Heroic AN is *the* gear-check heroic, just for this event.  Highly skilled and well prepared players might squeeze through a little earlier (gear wise) than most, but I really can&#8217;t see any way you could clear this with a &#8220;heroic entry level&#8221; group simply for lack of the required DPS to drop each group in the time allotted.</p>
<p>On  the plus side, once you can get it down consistently, Heroic AN takes about 20 minutes, so I love seeing this as the &#8220;Proof of Demise&#8221; daily now.  It&#8217;s not quite the &#8220;Mechanar of WotLK&#8221;, but it&#8217;s close.</p>
<p>Next step:  The &#8220;Watch Him Die&#8221; achievement. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Quaiche</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13727</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaiche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 02:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13727</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting. I&#039;ve never had a problem with this boss, but I have to say this is a good write up. We typically pull the left group first. Pull it back into the hallway. As you say, always kill the Skirmisher first. Use temp CC like Pally stuns and bear stuns to keep the third kill busy. Then just burn burn burn.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. I&#8217;ve never had a problem with this boss, but I have to say this is a good write up. We typically pull the left group first. Pull it back into the hallway. As you say, always kill the Skirmisher first. Use temp CC like Pally stuns and bear stuns to keep the third kill busy. Then just burn burn burn.</p>
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		<title>By: Amplexis</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2009/02/05/tanking-the-first-boss-in-azjol-nerub/comment-page-1/#comment-13726</link>
		<dc:creator>Amplexis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 01:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=1296#comment-13726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Awsome write up! didn&#039;t know it was a set person (furthest from the group) just figured it was a random non melee. Explains why certian people always died first in this fight. We&#039;ve always managed to get though this fight but out of BFFI over a plan. looking forward to not wiping next time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awsome write up! didn&#8217;t know it was a set person (furthest from the group) just figured it was a random non melee. Explains why certian people always died first in this fight. We&#8217;ve always managed to get though this fight but out of BFFI over a plan. looking forward to not wiping next time.</p>
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