Le sigh.
I swear, I want to curl up in my guild and hide from the outside world some days.
/shun
I was about to log off last night. I was tired. All I wanted to do was play my Shammy and level to 70, but it seemed it was a ‘one more thing… just one more’ kind of night.
Right at the end, JUST as I’m finally logging, I see someone post in trade, “Any tanks want to help us down the last boss in AN? It’s the daily heroic, easy 3 Emblems.”
That there is foreshadowing. “Easy 3 Emblems.”
Saying it again like that is overstating for comedic effect, just so you know.
Well… on the one hand, no. Please, no. I’ve done AN, I’ve gotten everything I want out of there, and I could care less about Emblems. All I do is buy more Bind on Account items with them on my tank. And the last boss annoys me because at least once a pull he bugs that stupid Pound, spinning to nail everyone behind him, or starting the cast when he pops up from a burrow, and then casting facing one way and it hits somewhere else. Just… no. Not with total strangers.
I only want to run that to get my friends the gear they want. Period.
Then, my sympathy kicks in.
Some poor group actually got all the way through the first boss in heroic AN, and then they lost a tank at the final boss. Oh, that would just kill me if I fought all that way for nothing. And I know that I’m somewhat overgeared for the fight, so if I volunteer I’ll be making it a bit easier on them to have a fast run.
Okay, sure. Fine. It’s one boss, even if it is with strangers. How bad can it be?
Oh. My. God.
Epic. Freaking epic. All the stereotypes are represented.
Names are completely being left off this one. I ain’t even going there.
Because even though some of them were awesome, by the end there was just too damn much drama, and if I name even one name, even of the people I thought rocked, word might get out about this post. And then I’d be holding back some of the bile, and I’d like to really let it loose on this one.
There were four other people, one unguilded in purples, one from one guild in all blues with some purple weapons, and two from the same guild in blues. Nobody that can cleanse poison at all.
It turned out that they were actually pairs. The unguilded one and the one in a guild were real life friends playing in the same room, apparently, from stuff the talkative one said several times. So it was two teams… and me the stranger in the middle.
I ask if everyone is familiar with the fight. They tell me they’ve wiped on it many times this evening. One of them says they just don’t understand it at all. Then they tell me the tank they had sucked, and the healer kept going out of mana in the middle, and when they told the healer their mana sucked the healer blamed the tank, and in the end both the tank and healer left in a huff. But they had a great healer now, so that wouldn’t happen again.
Then one of them asks who the main tank is.
Whut?
“Well… how many tanks do you think you need?”
I’m still really pissed about the instant know-it-all attitude from the one guy here. If you’ve wiped all night on this, you don’t bloody well know how to do the fight, you just know how to LOSE the fight. Go let Wellington tell you how well he knows the damn fight when he fought Napoleon, okay, pal? Closed minded know it all….
Anyway, what fresh hell is this again?
“Why are you asking who the tank is going to be?”
“You’re in DPS gear.”
….. okay, moving right along, I’m totally going to pretend that you did NOT just gear check me when you don’t understand what you’re looking at.
I let them know that, yes, I am the main tank, and will be providing the tanking services for this particular attempt.
I then proceed to begin explaining the fight.. only to be totally cut off.
“We know the fight. Gogogo.”
Ummm… if you know the fight so well, why are you wiping? Oh right, sucky tank and healer with no mana. Nothing to do with the DPS, not at all. So, since you have a Priest for a healer now… who exactly is cleansing poison in 50% and 25% add phases?
“We’ll heal through it.” Note it’s not the healer saying this, it’s the person that blamed the previous healer for sucking because they ran out of mana.
So I ask what is going to happen when, healing through the massive poison, the healer runs out of mana?
Will they blame the new healer too?
My sarcasm seemed to go unremarked. Go figure.
So, okay, a few of them know it all, blame other people for things without understanding the mechanics of the fight, and they are sniping at each other. Let’s give it a shot anyway.
Can you tell that, of the two teams I’m playing with here, I’m starting to get a feel for which one is snarky and close minded?
I charge in. I give it my best shot.
One of the DPS dies on a Pound, I Battle Rez perfectly on the fly to grab adds on the ramp. I do an extremely solid job of using my Survival Instincts, Berserk and other long cooldown abilities at just the right moment.
Healer runs out of mana trying to heal through the poison on the 25% venom adds. Not a bad first try with this crew.
And I’m actually, even though it was a wipe, pretty damn happy. I was in the zone, I FELT it, that feeling that I was spot on in both timing and execution of my skills. I responded to the tactical situation, I anticipated at the correct moments, Hell I even Bear bounced out of the damn spikes JUST the tiny amount necessary to get out of the damage effect but NOT so far as to pull out of position for melee DPS.
I was a smooth criminal, baby.
Too bad the operation was a success but the patient died.
And the bickering begins. Who did what, who was to blame, yadda yadda.
One of them said something about why the tank didn’t have aggro on the boss at some point in there.
Oh, HELL no. You did not just….
I mentioned earlier the way I hate some of his Pound related bugs, right? In that instance, the boss started casting Pound as he rose from burrow, and bugged out. He kinda stood off to the side facing the wall totally unresponsive for a couple seconds, and then began a late Pound cast. Almost like he lagged for a few seconds.
I tell the crew flat out, I will not put up with that kind of finger pointing bullshit. If they intend to blame my tanking and aggro management for the wipe, then start now so I can hearth the hell out of there and not waste more of my time.
Everyone chills out, I get whispers from people in both teams about how the other person is the other team is dick or a noob… and I reply to both of them the same way… “it’s okay, relax, the boss bugs sometimes, it’s more productive to give a try your best effort and learn from what YOU did, not place blame on what someone else did.”
So we try again. And again. And again.
Each time, just not enough DPS to get us over the 25% venom adds. Blame gets tossed around a little, but never on the right people… no, the blame comments come from the people I think of as the true failures. Because it’s always the same.
I’m telling the melee DPS to run the hell AWAY from the boss when he casts Pound, because he often bugs and follows the tank and Pounds behind him anyway, or just nails people behind him AND to the front, or some other shit. If I tank him in the middle, and you run away from him to the wall… you’re out of range no matter what he does.
They stand there on the bosses’ ass anyway, and someone gets one shot at least once on a pull.
Can’t really be down a DPS on the ramp adds, can you? Not if you’re healing through the poison.
We are at this long enough we actually have adds respawn at the front of the cave. The one three pull with a Skirmisher right before the first boss.
The healer and someone else had already run inside in advance of us, and had dropped down to the boss. So there were three of us, no healer, and a three pull with a Skirmisher.
I said hell with it and we took them on without a healer and crushed them and moved on. Yeah, I’ve said it before, Survival Instincts, Feral Regeneration, Lifeblood and Enrage in combination ROCKS. Healer optional for me… if someone else dies on the trash, I’ll rez you. Be damned if I quit now.
Finally we have a wipe and one of them just goes offline. Not a word, just offline, never comes back.
Another from the other pair sees the guy go offline, and decides not to come back from being dead. Just stays dead as the rest of us are in the instance waiting.
The guy who never comes back from being dead whispers me to tell me that his friend is just walking around, and they’re not coming back, it’s time to abandon these other losers, they don’t have what it takes. But hey, you’re a great tank, an awesome tank, and I’m being added to his ‘one of the greatest tanks on the server’ list.
I tell him to go ahead and leave with his friend, it’s cool, I’d explain it to the others. And, since I had lead so I could mark targets on the fly, I remove him when it becomes clear he is going to stay to see what I tell them.
With those two gone, I ask the healer, the only one besides me remaining, if they know where their guildie went. I figured they knew their guildie had left out of being irritated at the comments, and might be able to get him to return now that the run had changed it’s tone.
Nope, he’s gone. But they do get another guildie to come. I get my secret weapon, Razedbarre, to come in as DPS. And the other person gets one more DPS from their guild to volunteer.
Do you understand what has happened? The healer is the only person left of the original crew that started this run. And I am by God going to get this done for them. Oh hell yes, it’s happening. I don’t give a shit if I get 4 Sidhe Devils and the healer in the group if that’s what it takes to get it done at this point.
Because it was NOT the healer’s fault. The healer kicked ass. The healer was all in blues, except for crafted epic Tailoring and JC items. And as far as I know, the items she did have, the Moonshroud stuff, takes a long time and a lot of effort and money to make. She did a great job with the tools she had, I saw the intelligent use of heals, mana conservation, and use of Shadow Beast at just the right times.
The DPS either could NOT keep themselves out of Pound, or could NOT get the venom adds down. Period. How the hell is that the Healer’s fault?
But if we quit now, then the healer was going to walk away having had some asshat dump his bile on them, blaming them on the wipes.
I’m 26 gold in the hole for this run in repair bills. We’re finishing the damn run. Someone is walking away with a freaking win, do you hear me?
I get comments and mails all the time from people telling me about how they or their spouse were simply playing the game, doing their best, and doing well, and some immature little asshat having a difficult time in a run not only blasts them for the difficulty or wipes they experience, but just unloads a pile of hate on them. Adn I hear about how this makes someone who is either a new player, or a casual player, feel like shit.
Having someone blame everything on you, when you haven’t played your class and other classes AND the instance enough to have the experience and self confidence necessary to KNOW they are full of shit, can really tear you up inside. If you care about what you do, that is.
Not this time. Not on my watch.
We went in with three members of their guild, and me and Razedbarre. We went in with a mission; kick ass, any way possible.
And we did it, first time, first try with this group.
Now, there were deaths. Yes, there were. I used my Battle Rez again, and unfortunately the person I rezzed died to a spike moments later. Another of the people did a great job, but even with a self-rez, couldn’t quite make it through.
But we did enough DPS, we survived long enough, and the healer kept us together well enough that we scored a win.
Razedbarre and myself were the last two standing, but we had the win. And it tasted sweet.
What tasted even sweeter was when the person that ditched the group for being losers whispered me the second we downed the boss to ask, jokingly, how it was going. And I was able to truthfully reply, “No problem, we brought in some guildies and cleared it first try with the new team.”
He seemed a little… unhappy at that news.
What should I have said? Sorry we succeeded despite your bailing in a huff?
And I’ll tell you something else. I made damn sure I let those folks know that I felt they had done a damn fine job, and they should be proud of the win.
There is being undergeared, and there is being unskilled.
They were very undergeared for one of the hardest heroic challenges in the game right now.
But their hearts, and their skills, were spot on.
That healer never got a bad attitude, never got pissy, they just tried their best, did their best, and when people left they tried and succeeded to get more friends in to keep going, and they didn’t quit. They didn’t give up.
They had heart. And I am so happy to have spent an hour and more of wiping with them to get them that win.
Okay, I still winced when I paid that repair bill, though.
I’m on your list as a tank, bud? Well, I assure you, you are on my list too.
Bet on it.
Those hard-fought fights are so worth it. I’m actually surprised the healer put up with it; it’s gotten to the point where I will leave if the group starts getting too abusive.
And I honestly wish you would have included the reaction of the guy who bailed and then got told you one-shot it without him. That is priceless.
I think Im in the boat of not knowing if it was me being the bad tank when people start giving out hate after a wipe. My guilds always said Im fine and are happy for me to tank all the content we have done so far, so Im pretty sure its not my fault when some random dps in a pug starts mouthing off.
I think what surpises or shocks me is not people mouthing off but people so full of themselves that they think they cant possibly be the problem. It just shows in your example when the bad apples leave it all goes well.
Beautiful. Attitude is really everything isn’t it?
Right now I’m planning (plotting!) working with another 10 naxx team run by my GM within our raid alliance to build up a core of a 25 team. Crosspolanating the teams to build up more people.
Biggest thing is attitude. Sucky DPS and don’t understand your big important numbers? Still using quest blues/greens cuz you can’t get that damned Mark of the War Prisoner to drop? Fine and dandy, lets work on it. If there’s discussion about tactics, important numbers and a willingness to make friends… I want these people on our teams. If not? Done. I don’t care if you’re 5k DPS, I have no need for you if you’re the one being too slow on Thaddius and moronic enough to say it’s the healer who didn’t keep you up.
As a raid leader, there’s nothing more satisfying then seeing a problem, explaining it and emphasizing that you understand why the mistake was made then never seeing it happen again.
Douchebags of the world, hear our cry. We don’t need you!
That’s awesome that you were so good to that healer, 3B. Kudos. :)
You have the funniest tales to tell. I love them! Sometime I think you just pug so you have funny stories for us all the next day. Whatever the reason, ty for a great read.
“There is being under geared, and there is being unskilled.” I could not agree more with this more! Give me under geared people who know how to play their class in a group setting, throw in some heart and the ability to think outside their class “box” and we win every time!
*nod to you for sticking with that healer… I’ll give my left paw for someone who plays with heart.
You’re a very good story teller. I’ve been following your blog for about a month now and I am hooked. It is both fun to read and informative. It also lead me to “Teethandclaws” which I check daily. I am a very casual player (3 nights a week) and since finding these two blogs my limited time has become far more productive and enjoyable (Kitty DPS with tanking dreams when dual spec. happens). Thanks and keep up the good work.
I had the same thing sorta thing a week ago.
A pug invites me as a dps kitty for VH hc, it’s half an hour and three badges, nice. The tank is a fresh 80 warrior who tells us he splashed all his money on three crafted epics. Nice guy, seems a little nervous. He’s still sporting two greens and has 24K health, but he’s uncrittable, so he should be fine in VH. One DPS and the healer are his friends, and are about equally geared and nervous, but very keen. And there’s another guy, a deathknight dps.
What bosses do we get? Xevozz and Shadowguy. Not exactly the best you can get on a new tank… Enter mister Death Knight. Ofcourse we whipe the first time on Xevozz, the tank didn’t have a clue. We explain the fight (DK yells OMG and shouts a lot) and we actually get the guy down nice and easy.
Ofcourse we get unlucky after that and the healer gets the debuff to see the adds twice in a row on Shadowguy. We whipe. Reset.
So Xevozz again. We get a bit unlucky and we whipe. Now here it comes. DK yells OMG let met tank or I’ll walk away. Ofcourse the warrior gets nervous and says OK, donns his dps gear and we let DK tank. He kites Xevozz on a wild goose chase all around the front, then up the stairs and dies. I go to bear and between the warrior and me we kite him and spank him and he goes down. Dk demands a rezz, gets it and continuous playing the tank.
Needless to say we whipe again on Shadowguy… second time to the fight for 3 out of 5 in the group, no problem. The 3 friends seem nice and they keep getting better and better. DK leaves without saying anything. We have a chat about strategy, get a hunter from LFG and continue to oneshot all three bosses till we win! The tank got a gear upgrade, his healer got two. Good times! And since it was a BM hunter, I got to dominate the DPS charts :p Kitteh FTW!
Needless to say DK is on ignore. And it was a good day for rep grinding.
DANG BBB, you ARE a great story teller. I bow to you.
Anub’Arak has got to be the buggiest boss in Northrend. Pun intended.
I had a very similar experience today. I’d have to write an entire blog post of my own to give all the tiny special details but essentially there was a very undergeared healadin trying his best to keep my furry butt up despite the antics of the huntard (and he really was), ret pally, and rogue who seemed intent on dying every chance they could find. Sometimes you just can’t fathom that people can be so completely clueless, and then some idiot comes along and raises the bar yet again. This was one of those situations. Nevertheless, that healadin is much like the priest in your post. Full of spirit, knew his skills, and strained them to their utmost. Never complained, never gave up, and never let it get to him. He went on my friends list right after that instance. The fact that he could type with proper grammar was merely a nice bonus.
LOL! What a wonderful story. Sadly that is what I believe happens more often than not in PUG groups from first instances on . . . Kudos to the healer and you for hanging in there. Every time I even THINK about bitching at a healer – I get mine out and run a PUG . . . keeps you humble.
Great story, I have shelved my healer for now. Glad you had one that was willing to listen and learn.
Utter, Not to blame all DK’s but I know what you mean, there seems to be something about DK’s that have attracted more than their share of bad players.
@Thomas: You’re right, it’s absolutely not true for all DK’s. I didn’t mean to generalize, just didn’t want to name him.
I really think the Healer is the hardest toon to master on instance runs, and the quickest to get blame when the other members die because of someone’s poor mechanics or skills. That’s exactly why I AM moving my toons to be healers except for my Druid, as I used to love being on the spot and everything dependent on your doing your job. (Not that the Tank isn’t a BIG BIG BIG part of it) No pun intended 3B… lol
It DOES take all members in a group doing their job to get it done.
I avoided Pugs for A LONG time because of some bad experiences: Some Tanks didn’t know how to generate aggro but thought they did, DPS that pulled aggro off the Melee or Tank (And Laughed about it). Saw Hunter’s forget to put their pets on passive. And the finger pointing that was usually totally wrong.
It ISN’T (As your blog notes) always the Tanks fault, nor the Healer’s fault. They can’t do it ALL without the supporting cast. Finding people that either can take direction or know the fights, fun to play with, and make it fun no matter what happens (Including OOPs times), is why I play. Pugs sometimes “Get It”, and work, and sometimes they “Don’t Get It”, and Epic Fail. Roll the Dice Mate.
Heheh. Fantastic story. Loved the ending where the guy whispered you.
Had a similar but much more fun experience two nights ago. I was doing dailies out in Dun Niffelem and guy asked “Can you kill last boss in H Nexus”. I said probably but not by myself. He then said. “I really need the help, can you come?” And I said, “Will it be just the two of us or do you have a group?” People need to be a a little more clear when they are whispering. The guy never said what happened. Then he said “Lol, I have a group just need one more to finish”.At that point, I said “Sure, I’m out in the wilderness and if you can summon, that will get me there quicker, and I’ll be happy to help”. So they summon, I get there and ask if they want me to DPS or Tank and they said DPS. I said ok, they said ready and we take down the dragon in about 3 minutes. Lo and Behold, one of the drops is a chest piece I have wanted for a month. I politely ask if I may need and they said sure. So, I get the chest piece and dont know if they all passed or I got the roll, I was so excited about seeing the thing drop. So in conclusion, they get to finish and get heroic achievement, I get a better chestpiece, I get to help someone I didn’t know, who was very appreciative and a good time was had by all. They probably could have 4 manned the boss as I am still working on getting my DPS up in cat form but everyone seemed to be happy with everything, Gratz all round and everyone leaves satisfied. A far cry from the experience you had Big Bear.
there seems to be something about DK’s that have attracted more than their share of bad players.
DK = Cool, new, FotM class. They’re seen as overpowered, and everyone wants one. “Everyone” unfortunately includes a huge number of asshats.
The other issue is that the overwhelming majority of our new DK players used to play ranged dps characters, and aren’t familiar with those little problems that come with being melee. The lower aggro cap, for one, and the issue of proper positioning. They think they know how to play, and some refuse to acknowledge that just maybe they don’t know as much as they should. After all, they cleared Sunwell before it got nerfed, so there couldn’t possibly be anything new for them to learn, right?
Sometimes you can even tell if the DK in your group is being played by an ex-mage, as opposed to an ex-rogue, just by watching them. It’s quite funny.
I have to say reading this brought a smile to my face. I love the passion which you display.
Thanks for sharing!
Love hearing stories like this … sticking with something, beating the odds, getting that feeling of earned accomplishment worth so much more than gear.
Keep ‘em coming.
The upside for having those terrible people around is that they provide such great material for this blog;-) To each his/her use in the universe!
That pound bug is terrible indeed. What i found out works, is to go to his side instead of his back if he starts casting pound right after he comes up. Lucky enough this is a boss where we can CR pretty easy as a tank.
Thanks BBB for sticking up for that healer! I’m a resto druid and I use to get really upset when they would start blaming me, now I just tell them if they was doing a better job of dpsing then I would have to heal you as much. I also tell them that when it comes to the tank dieing or dps dieing then I will heal the tank first. If that tank dies we all die. That most of the time gets them to shut up.
BBB always seems to find the asshats. Perhaps it is a server thing, perhaps it is an Alliance thing, but for whatever reason, BBB always has outrageous examples of idiocracy and selfishness that I manage to avoid.
I run a lot of PUG heroics. I just (this weekend) got the achievement for 250 stonekeeper shards and 100 Badges of Heroism on my holy priest. I have spent almost no time in Naxx (PUGs only) and I would guess that I have run fewer than 5 heroics with guildies, since I am the third-string healer in our guild — and the other two generally get asked to run heroics/Naxx ahead of me. But… I have seldom run into the annoying behaviour that BBB seems to find on a consistent basis. Sometimes a heroic group is tainted with one bad apple, but never the two/three/four-somes that BBB manages to find.
Thank goodness too. With a-holes like those around every corner I would sell my (few) epics to spec shadow in a second! Horde on BWR FTW!
Have you ever noticed that it’s ALWAYS the healer’s or the tank’s fault? The minute blame starts being thrown around it always lands on the healer or tank, or both. Healer couldn’t heal enough, tank didn’t keep aggro. As if DPS could do no wrong. After 2 years playing a feral tank I’ve heard it all and i used to do pugs all the time. I gave up on pugs. Too many people out there don’t understand what a feral tank does or how they need to be geared. I’ve gotten that person who thinks they know all about tanking so they try giving me “advice” on what I should be wearing. No, I don’t need defense. Yes, agility is one of my main stats. No, that’s not just for dps’ing. Get it straight and let me tank damnit.
Don’t you sometimes wish you could attack the other players within your faction when they’re being complete morons? I know I’ve wished that when doing some Heroic OS or VoA runs when some complete knob decides they don’t want to follow the MT or RL’s directions. Just today was in a H-OS run where a number of the DPS weren’t going through the portal when both the RL and I (as MT) had said they should. This was even more pathetic on Vesperon (or whichever is the one who is nigh invulnerable when the portal appears). Damned meter watchers all, 2 mages with 100% of their damage on Sartharion for that fight…
Stories like this are a reason I respond that I don’t PuG heroics when asked if I’m a tank. The fact that I have over 300 Emblems of Heroism doing nothing for me right now is another, being the 2nd to 80 in guild and 1st tank gave me plenty of opportunity to see every fight many, many times. I give you a lot of credit for sticking it out, I would probably have dropped group with nothing but a whisper of apologies to the healer and putting the dps on ignore if in your shoes.
This very fight nearly blew up my guild 10 days ago. We tried it as an “officers” and “veterans” run : people I know they can play very well : main warrior tank of the guild, head-healer, naxx-raidleader main dps of the guild (mage), another good dps (rogue), and me with my hunter, guildleader. The healer is a priest, no poison decurse. We tried it 15 times. And it was getting worse with every try while everyone got tired and frustrated. Some angry words got out randomly in the group. Healer got pissed off and everyone was angry. We gave up. My healer’s officer refused to talk to me for a whole week ! I didn’t say a thing during the fight, trying my best to get rid of these bleeeeping poisonnous spiders !
We tried it later on that day, with another very good healer (priest too, very good player) and another good dps officer (rogue too). 8 tries, wipes and wipes, no way we were going through this. But no drama, we just gave up.
Three days later, we tried it another time. Another tank, paladin, my two dps officers mage and rogue, my hunter, and the second priest on her enhancement chaman, respecced resto with a resto offset of blues and crafted epics. After 3 tries, we went through it ! We had the decurses from the totem, and the fear from the paladin on one of the poisonous nerubians, followed by a freezing trap once the mob is away from the consecration… and chaman self-rez… It was hard and a bitter victory.
My heal-officer talk to me again. We had a very long talk. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. This very fight nearly killed my guild, but it’s stronger now, I can feel it. But I don’t want to put even one foot in this heroic ever, and least of all with a pug !
On a technical part, I think the key of this fight is not the healer or the tank or the dpsers, it’s the crowd-control. You have to be very careful to cc the second poisonous nerubian while you blow up the first one and to NOT break it ! The little adds killed us often too, they love healer’s meat.
If you’re a dpser, protect your healer from the adds. And blow that poisonous thing as fast as you can ! Interrupt the casting, whatever you can do to stop this poison coming !
If you’re the healer, stay in sight of your hunter or any non-cloth dpser who can take your mobs off you if you want them to be able to protect you.
If you are the tank, do your job, I won’t tell you how, I don’t know how to tank… Just be careful with the cc. My freezing trap is precious.
Thanks BBB for talking about this pug. I’ve been very busy these days, so I’m a bit late to read your blog, and this article is now a bit old but I wanted to comment at least to thank you for sharing this. I see there that we are not the only one having been hiting a wall with this fight but finally getting through it. It helps a lot. GM is a tough role sometimes, but so rewarding when your guildies are happy and proud.
Keep on the great articles.
Nef
I’ve been healing right from the start, pre TBC, with my druid and my priest but also tanking. There have been good and bad pugs and while the bad have been horrible at the time I’m really happy that I’ve gone through them. Those horrible runs have taught me to think on my toes, and sometime perform miracles on the fly.
I also fondly remember those DPS-raiders who have had the common sense to sacrifice themselves to save the healer when something gone wrong. I especially remember a rogue who single handily took on three elites when a hunter had an accident pull.