This just blows my mind.

I mean, seriously.

I suppose it happens all the time, but somehow, I never expected to really encounter this level of blatant selfishness in a community of people that will remember a name.

Congratulations to Thien, of Azeroths Redemption, for winning the award this month as the most blatantly selfish prick I’ve recently seen. Way to represent a Guild there, idjit.

Check this out. This is hilarious.

Today is the server reset for raids, right?

So, today is a good day to pug VoA and OS, of course.

I saw a 25 man VoA advertised, volunteered on my Hunter, was invited right away.

Dirz of Essence of Grandeur was also in it, kinda funny since I’d JUST been chatting with him in Icecrown like 5 minutes previously. He’s good people. Remember when Cassie and I were pugging Karazhan, way back when? It was Essence of Grandeur and Dirz we ran with. Good times, good times.

So, cool, fun group already. A few people I know. Well, one anyway. Cassie would enjoy this!

They are discussing what they need. Already have tanks and healers covered, need at least 10 more DPS.

I ask if they’ll invite Cassieann then, a Rogue, for DPS.

They continue to invite others, and to advertise that they need DPS.

I try again. Dirz also mentions that they should invite Cassie. Silence, no reply, but continues to invite others, and to spam trade asking for more DPS.

I arrive in Wintergrasp. I finally see the Wintergrasp chat channel discussion.

It’s a discussion of how Thien has been advertising for more DPS… and how at least three other Rogues have all whispered asking for invites, and Thien is ignoring them completely. As the conversation goes on, Thien continues to spam looking for DPS.

Can anyone guess what class Thien happens to be?

That’s right, the selfish little prick is a Rogue, he is the Raid Leader, he’s controlling all invites, and he is making sure there isn’t a single other Rogue in the run to potentially compete with him in ANY way for any loot.

Now, what makes this hilarious is that a quick check on Armory shows he’s already got the Valorous Shoulders, Valorous Chest and Valorous Gloves. He still has the Gored Hide Leggings, though.

So of course he is locking out any other Rogue from the chance of running and potentially getting Gloves or Chest items… because he wants any Leggings drops all for himself. Never mind that if a Valorous Rogue-only Chest or Glove drops, it’s getting thrown out due to his selfishness.

He’d rather throw out gear than to have gear drop that he has to roll against someone else for.

Just… no, really. Would you want THAT mentality on YOUR raid? Would you REALLY?

I have expected, being the kind of person that I am, to run into this kind of behavior before.

Still, to have such an incredibly blatant example of someone that starts a raid for no other reason than to control the configuration of classes, so as to make absolutely sure that they, and only they, will get what they want if it drops?

Unbelieveable.

This… this is how Mammoth mounts get ninjaed, ya know? Having someone out only for themselves in charge of your run. I’d never trust Thien with master looter, ever, even on a Hellfire Ramparts Death Knight pug, after seeing the lengths he’ll go to for control of loot. Because he clearly cares for only one thing. Himself.

Do you think Thien has no problem acting like that in this, the most obvious and public of venues, because he doesn’t think his guild would object to that kind of behavior? Do you think that he actually doesn’t recognize what is wrong with his behavior? Is it possible to act like that in a social game, after hitting level 80 and being in a the raiding scene for a while, and NOT know that there is a problem with it? 

Good lord, is it me? Am I out of line in thinking this kind of behavior is just… well, unbelieveable?

I swear, I feel like Lewis Black, looking at someone acting like this and shaking my head, dumbfounded by yet another selfish assclown.

Well, I’ll mention the incident to his guild leader, because I know that I, personally, as a guild leader would desperately want to know about that kind of thing if someone in my guild had done it.

But the thought I’m left with is that maybe it really is just me. Maybe I’m the only one that sees this kind of behavior, and thinks there is something seriously wrong with this fucknut. Maybe I’m going to whisper the GL of that guild, and get a “He did what? Dude, so what? Chill, it’s just pixels, lols” in reply.

I don’t know. I used to have higher expectations of my fellow players. These days, I’m just happy if they don’t start another ANAL something or other link spam competition in the Trade channel.

Of course, I left the raid immediately. Life is simply too short to waste it on asshats. Made me sad, I was looking forward to running with Dirz, but that’s life sometimes.

I’m sure they found a replacement for my DPS in about two seconds… and I’ll really go out on a limb and wager it wasn’t a Rogue. :)

One last thing. Cassie told me that, since Dan at WoW Insider linked to me today, I really shouldn’t get all ranty and pissy about something like this. What will all those potential new readers think?

Well, hopefully, if you came here and read this, what you’ll think is that I have zero tolerance for asshats. And if you also dislike asshats, you’ll feel at home, and welcome enough to pull up a comfy chair and stay a while.

And if, by chance, you ARE an asshat… then my hope is that you’ll go the hell away before I taunt you a second time.

61 Responses to “New asshat of the day – the selfish raid leader”
  1. Lem says:

    BBB, I’ve been reading you regularly for the past four or five months and I have to say that one (of the many) thing that I like about you is your zero-tolerance for asshats, so by all means, keep giving them grief. Keep up the good work!
    -Lemele
    Kilrogg

  2. Dechion says:

    Lol, believe it or not there are lots who don’t care for the asshats of the world.

    Myself included.

  3. Kym says:

    As much as I can relate to meeting asshats at the same regularity as you do B3, I’d like to share a quick story of how that are still some niceness left in this game.

    It was a late tuesday night. I haven’t logged on for ages. And once on, was itching to do a heroic. So I set about looking for guildies to partake in this quick run. I got me a healer and a brank spanking new DK tank. Being a feral tank, I am comfortable enough to go kitty and still keep up half assed DPS, if only as a OT if the brown stuff hits the spinning stuff.

    So, we’re short 2 DPS. We look in the guild, but no. And so I threw the invite to the floor. Taking time to explain that we have a DK tank still learning the ropes and it may or may not be a smooth run. The few that answered and got the information wished us well and went about their merry way.

    Then we got Myst**** , Fury warrior(Im using *** cos I can’t remember how to spell his name) from Nurvo Orsa (probably spelt this wrong too. lol) and Fordonator the Rogue. From what I can tell on their gear, they experienced raiders and such. So I inform them that our DK tank is still learning and they’re cool with it.

    We wiped 5 times on the void walker. And they still hung with us, repair fees and all.

    When we did clear the big ugly ink blog, the rest of the run was a one shot affair.

    My thanks to their unselfish selves for having the patience to stick with us and teaching us the mechanics of that fight.

    They were generous with the drops and were cool for us to Need if it’s an upgrade.

    In the end, we reimbursed Myst’s repair bills (which we are VERY happy to do so) and Frodo was kind enough to respectfully decline the reimbursement.

    Sure there are asshats around, but if I meet a few more folks like Myst and Frodo along the way, it really makes my day.

    So there. Thanks for the run.

    K

  4. Azshrin says:

    Never Give Up! Never Surrender!

  5. Rootgrrl says:

    Thien was being stupidly selfish, and deserves to be called out on it. It’s not just you 3B.

  6. Vads says:

    I have this bad habit of getting worked up over pure asshattery when I come across it as well. Trying to not get too bothered but I usually fail and end up feeling all kinds of nasty.

    If I was more like Dechion here who would just let it fly and forget about it (along with an ignore of course so I wont have to see stupidity again), I’d probably enjoy my online time on WoW a bit more.

    Something to work on, I suppose. :)

  7. Aymee says:

    I’ve been reading your blog for quite a while now, and I agree with Lem: One of the things I love about you is your asshat-dislike. It’s a game, alright, but it’s my hobby and I don’t really like it when people act like they’ve never even heard of manners. I was (almost) raised in a barn (kennel. not a big difference really, when it comes down to it.) and I do manage to avoid acting like that.

    I hope. Now I was suddenly struck with the fear that I have some odd habit that a large percentage of wow-players view as rude and mean-spirited. I mean, asshats can’t be asses by INTENTION can they?

  8. Original says:

    Well in the other hand, if you reason with him you could even do something better than “im gonna tell on ya with your gm dude”… actually you could kinda teach him to be more tolerant, or something like it.

    Anyway, i probably wouldnt quit the raid, since rogues are the one’s afected, i need that piece!
    And again on the other hand, maybe, if time’s on my side (lately not) i would’ve gone with my roguie friend.

    Both cases ill be pissed off by the attitude lol =D

  9. Akiosama says:

    It’s not uncommon to see someone who can’t handle disappointment stack the deck in his/her favor in order to improve the chances of winning.

    Granted, in this situation, as the supposed “master looter” (do you really think he’d risk giving that job to someone else?), he’s got more control over what happens, than if it was simply a card game where he had an extra ace up his sleeve, which is a bummer. Glad to see you exercised your personal veto and left, rather than stubbornly endure such a character.

    Though, to expound on this point regarding asshattery that seems prevalent on WoW, that there are many things supporting being an asshat in WoW that features in other games (EQ being the one that comes to my mind) help keep in check. Funnily enough, I was talking to my wife about it – she was in a top 5 raiding guild across all servers on that game, and so saw and experienced a LOT. Personally, I couldn’t handle the repetitive nature, the seriousness, and the raid scheduling, myself, but she seemed to enjoy it…

    What she sees/doesn’t see in WoW, which contributes to continued asshattery in her opinion (vs. what she saw/didn’t see in EQ) are:

    1) Lack of cross-server chat. Nobody knows what one person does on one server on another server, at least not easily. When she was playing her Cleric on EQ, the top guilds had class channels where they would all get together to confer (read: keep tabs on each other’s progress), but what it also allowed was instant recognition of asshats in all the top tier guilds. If you were a severe asshat in your previous guilds, it was likely that people in other guilds that you might be interested in already know who you are and what you are. Good luck.

    2) Lower server transfer fees. While this is legitimately good for some, it’s also a rather (relatively) cheap way to clean your reputation slate. Known for being a ninjalooter on Server A? Well, then, pop down $30 and start over on Server B. (It was considerably more expensive on EQ – and while this could be done, it would likely not help much anyhow, given the points made in #1 above.)

    3) Ability to change your name. WTF? What the heck was Blizzard thinking when they allowed people to pay to change their names? Hello? How valuable is a (mostly) flawless alias in the real world? Now you’ve just given that advantage to the players in WoW, where before they’d have to reroll their character and start over if they ruined the reputation of their existing character.

    4) Lack of truly hardcore (moreso than even Heroic content) endgame stuff. While I understand, personally, the idea that designing the game for the casual gamer allows everyone willing to put in some time the ability to actively use all the expansion stuff they’re purchasing (as opposed to EQ, where being casual at the time, I don’t think I was able to see much actual content from any pack later than pack 5 of the nearly dozen-and-a-half expansions they created), it leads to some pretty annoying and stupid stuff being done by bored Lv. 80s. I’ve seen mid-range towns, such as Crossroads and Tarren Mill held under siege by bored Lv. 80 Alliance folk for an hour straight, just for kicks. (What advantage is there in raiding a town with Lv 50 max NPCs when you’re Lv 80, anyways?) Or worse yet, I’ve seen Horde asshats (yeah, I’m Horde) park their Mammoths over the mailbox, making it extremely difficult to use them, to the tune of “I’m not breaking any rules – if you want to use a mailbox, there’s another one across town…” All stuff that could be avoided if you kept the Lv. 80s busy, I think.

    5) A large and truly anonymous population. While this is in itself not a direct design problem, it is does contribute to the problem of keeping people from being asses. People can be asses, because they know they’re one of a bunch – there will generally be other people they can be asses to, for kicks, as long as they keep out of the banning crosshairs. It also provides a large population of servers (as the population of the game grows) which basically translate to ‘fresh new environments’ for old asshats. I don’t know a full way to handle this, but it does lead me to my next point…

    6) A rather (relatively) painless start-to-finish cycle of the game. How long does it really take to go from 1-to-80? A few weeks, if you seriously work at it? That means that one can create a swarm of characters without that much work, and be more cavalier about the attitudes displayed, since if one becomes useless due to a bad reputation, rerolling is not so painful as it can be on other games. EQ? I think my wife put in over a year of dedicated time to become the Cleric she was in that game (and I think she finished her run in the top 50 across all servers prior to her hiatus). Do you really think that she didn’t work to maintain a good reputation and work hard to be good at what she did? If it took that much work to be top-tier in WoW, do you think you’d have as many asshats at the top? (Or rather, at least everyone would know who the asshats were going into a given situation, and make an informed decision based on their own tolerance.)

    Note that I’m not saying that EQ’s perfect – far from it. The hardcore nature necessary to play the game turned me off, for sure. But I will say that there were far, far, far less people who rubbed me the wrong way on EQ than I see daily on WoW, and I don’t think that’s JUST because of the quantity of players. To me, the game was my problem with EQ. Right now, the people often contribute to my headaches in WoW.

    It’s a problem because you’re dealing with a bunch of people sitting comfortably behind the anonymity of the Internet. But there are features/ideas out there that can help control the sheer amount of asshattery in such an environment…

    Despite some of the people, though, I’m much happier playing WoW (MMO), than playing Final Fantasy XII (solo). Most of the time.

    (Sorry for the length – it just hit me that I had a lengthy discussion with my wife regarding a similar idea, and I wanted to share.)

    My 2 gold to B^3,

    Akiosama

  10. Chawa says:

    I hereby nominate Thien to the Kael’thas Hall of Shame!

  11. Anonymous Mage says:

    I have to admit, I am somewhat guilty of this, though only in heroics in which I’m lead. I’m a mage, and if I’m looking at DPS in LFM, I naturally invite Hunters, Rogues…all the non clothies, so I can have a better chance at cloth loot. Considering the fact that my guild has an abundance of well geared tanks and healers (which seems to be an anomaly), I can brute force most anything with them, even if said rogue and hunter are putting out the same combined dps as I am. Meh, I like my loot.

  12. Joram says:

    Heh, BBB, that sounds like a familiar story. Not long ago, I joined a pickup run for 25-man OS, similar situation. We wiped on the first trash pull (a bad omen), but being a total newbie at this point, I was all for sticking with it. Some of the raid left, and we needed to pick up a healer and a few dps. The dps slots filled at a reasonable pace, but we couldn’t get any healers. But that’s just business as usual right?

    Finally, we got our break — someone in the raid had found a priest. The raid leader, a warlock, pretty quickly dismissed the priest as an option though. Why? To paraphrase: “I’m organizing this to get myself some loot.” A quick check showed that, not only were there no other warlocks in the raid — there weren’t any priests or paladins either; they’d be competition for his T7.25 gloves.

  13. Fubarr says:

    Oh. I just realised something. When I ran VoA 10-man the other day, I was offering myself as a beary OT (good dps and reasonable tankery). No takers, so switched to mage. We eventually got him down with No OT (which was kinda impressive but very, very close), and the warrior RL got two pieces. I suddenly understand what the hell was going on there. Wish I could remember his name so I could out him. Damn.

  14. Thibbledorf says:

    I second Chawa’s Nomination.

    DEATH TO ASSHATS!!

  15. Ben says:

    This comment has nothing to do with previous comments, but I just want to say that yours is one of my favorite blogs to read, WoW-related and non.

  16. Veroicone says:

    Playing WoW for as long as I have (only 2 years, so I guess not that long) I have learned that asshats are everywhere and that all you can do is laugh and rant about it later :P I had a run with my own asshat last night who thought because he was an 80 dk he was “oh so powerful” and that we didn’t need a healer to run Nexus (we had to people below 70, and apparently some other guy thought myself [im a feral druid] and a pally with 4k mana each could heal … heh). The guy left the group and I told him I didn’t mean to offend him but that even if he is 80 with 2 low levels we’d die, regardless of our very basic and simple heals (ended up running it with a great healer). My friend tells me her horror stories of 25 man raids and how much drama llamas show up in it with loot and things, I do small runs now with mostly the same people. If he mentioned flat out ahead of time that he wanted xy and z maybe people would not have mind? I have run with people before that flat out said in the beginning that they were running it for whatever piece they wanted and everyone was fine with it and that if someone else needed it as well they’d run it again.

  17. Iggan says:

    I agree on the asshattery, and honestly your intolerance for asshattery is one of the reasons I applied for SD.

  18. Mannyac says:

    What MMORPG should stand for
    My
    Main
    Only
    Runs
    Polite
    Groups

    instead of

    My
    Main
    Only
    Raids to
    Practice
    Greed

  19. Malphailuron says:

    I am beginning to seriously consider making a nice level 1 alt just so I can friend anyone who really pisses me off. That way, if they change their name, I’ll know.

  20. Teri says:

    Bravo! BBB You are awesome! :)

  21. Naia says:

    I was just fishing in Ironforge and I had the trade channel open. I can’t remember the last time I had Trade open, but nobody was saying anything particularly lame and guild chat was quiet, so I left it open. And what do I see? LFM 25 Vault need 3 healers and more dps, no hunters. I had just read your post 10 min prior and I was like, “No, it couldn’t be.” Yup, a hunter.

  22. Joeboy says:

    I am an AD&HD spekked tauren druid (which means I am going to heal the instance i just tanked two hours ago) and due to time and family commitments, I am constantly puggin in the Eonar trade channels.

    I had my lovely 10 man T7 shoulders drop from a pugged naxxx run and some blood elf DK called “Kyzara” ( his name at that time) ninja’ed it…. He was master looting at that time…

    He promptly logged out, got his toon kicked from the guild and he then changed his name to “Vestia”.

    So please watch out for the death knigget called Vestia… oo and a shaman called “Darman” in the Eonar Server

  23. PlasticRat says:

    First off, love the blog as is. Don’t change anything. It’s liberating reading it and I would hate it if you held your mouth about stuff. That’s not what a blog is about.

    I think our society is erring slightly too much on the ‘tolerating asshats’ side. My friend always says folks were a lot more polite when everyone carried a gun at their hip. Our tolerance for asshats, on and off the internet has gotten our society into a bit of a mess I think.

    In the situation above? I would simply have announced to everyone what the guy was doing and then said I’m leaving the raid and anyone who wants to group with my raid where no class will be left out due to loot stacking should just whisper me.

    Would be awesome too see asshat boy suddenly left with an entirely empty raid. Sadly, that type of person seems incapable of understanding when they are at fault and would probably just blame you for being the ass.

    Akiosama also makes some great points. WoW has historically had one of the worst ever communities online, rivaled only by Battlenet (where a lot of it came from) and Counterstrike. I really think Blizzard could do more if they wanted to. On RP servers you constantly get idiots trolling trade and verbally abusing Rpers. If these folks were getting a nice long suspension for stuff like that, it wouldn’t be happening. Word would get around. Folks wouldn’t want to risk missing their next raid or a few days playtime just to go and troll some Rpers.

    Players parking their mounts over things, should get a warning, followed by a suspension, watch how quickly it will stop happening. Forget the penalty volcano, that thing obviously doesn’t work.

    If GMs weren’t so deathly afraid of smacking the asshats down really hard the moment they started getting out of line, we’d have a much, much nicer environment. Same goes for the official forums.

  24. Dirz says:

    Well no rogue gear dropped, I didnt actually look the guy up on Armory, didnt realize he was that crazy geared. Not to mention the moron invited 3 tanks and asked if I could toss on ret gear- not the DEATH KNIGHT to DPS but the prot specced pally…WTF. Anyway mail me if you want to work out any cross guild heroic raids- I figure OS25 would be easy enough to do without the drakes, I’ve pugged it before- and VOA25 also, cept I’m saved this week…argg

  25. Imalinata says:

    My husband had this happen to him a couple weeks ago. He’s crazy about alts (he had 8 70s and 3 are 80 now) and has been pugging to get his mage and our bear tank some gear so that he can fill any spot when we want to run heroics (I’m the pocket healer :D ). Anyway, this guy DKftw (on Gorgonnash) was advertising a PuG OS run. Anyway, hubby gets invited on his mage, summoned to Wyrmrest, and DKftw sends him a tell asking if he needed the set gloves. He told DKftw that he did and then was removed from raid. As he looks around there’s 2 other mages hanging out by the summoning stone because they had needed the set gloves too. One of the other PuGs got tired of Dkftw’s asshattery, left the group, and started inviting people for the same run by advertising that it was a “DKftw free OS run”. Everybody bailed on DKftw and went with the other group and they downed Sarth with no problems while DKftw sat in Org.

    Keep on calling out the asshats, BBB. It’s definitely entertaining once you get past the “really?!” reaction. :D

  26. I run my own raids for the most part because I don’t really trust ther people to get certain aspects right. I lost the valorous prot paladin shouders to a Ret pally because the master looter didn’t know the difference in VoA. In OS25, I got bumped from main tank to OT because a warrior in the group had 100 more HP than me. I inspected the new MT, and he was wearing half T5 gear gemmed exclusively for stam and had essence of gossamer. He got eaten alive by Sarth.

    My rule for Arch25 is no more than three of any class. The only on I make an exception for is paladins. Because I know the itemization for paladins, I’ll take an extra paladin because I know that I’ll make the right call on the loot, so having the extra paladin isn’t a problem.

  27. Ulv says:

    B3 – it’s the rants that make you a great Blogger!

    You’re not alone – this kind of behaviour is as unacceptable in game as it would be face-to-face. People who justify this kind of selfish behaviour by playing hte ‘just a game’ card are kidding themselves – if they want to see who they _really_ are then the time to look is not when stood next to a policeman or on the phone to their mother. The time to look hard at themselves is when all constraints are off.

    To paraphrase Lao Tzu: The way to be is to do. Or… You are what you do, not what you say you are.

  28. Inori says:

    While I do not approve his actions, I’d like to play a devil’s advocate on this.

    I play as a resto druid on a small friendly RP-PvE server. I was in a non-raiding family-like guild, thus I was forced to join random pug raids in order to advance in terms of gear. At one point in OS-25 T7.5 gloves token drop. This is best-in-slot for resto. I rolled. I won over like 15 people. Guess what happens next? ML passes them to his friend, along with other items and logs off. Fine, I got over it, I’m only starting the pugs myself. They are a success, I always get tons of /w’s of “thanks man, great leading”. But. One thing that keeps ticking in my mind is that I’ve lost rolls for 3 more of those T7.5 gloves, a best in slot trinket and some other superb loot to people that do not contribute to the raid in any way or form. I can’t control each and every person that gets in my pug. So obviously some dinged-1-hour-ago 80s get in. And they win items they probably don’t even know the use of. I know it’s just their luck and all, but when you’re ripping your ass off and the items you really want are constantly going to some pricks that auto-attack afk, then you’re starting to get the same ideas as that rogue.
    Again, I don’t approve such actions and the moment I had a really hard time making myself invite another druid into VoA pug, I decided to stop leading pug raids, but I fully understand why he might act the way he did.

  29. Slam says:

    There’s an undead priest on EU server Aszune who’s name I can’t quite remember right now who was running the Headless Horseman all the time during the Halloween event. What they never told anyone when they formed the group was that they’d set themselves as master looter. You can guess what happened when the horse finally dropped. I still see the same person advertising for VoA 25 man raids and laugh at the thought of ever running anything with them but I’m sure there are plenty of unfortunates who do. I’m amazed they haven’t changed their name.

    I’m with the other posters bear, out the asshats, most if not all of us enjoy it when you do!

  30. Jeroen, the Netherlands says:

    I am staying a while :) Keep blogging and posting your feelings.

  31. FaceTank says:

    I feel for ya BBB. I had a similar situation with a pug OS 10 a while back. Some guy (a priest) and his friend (warrior) were spamming LFG so I figured I would give it a shot. Once I got in to the group the leaders started to invite others. Eventually we were full but can you guess with what? All Rogues, Mages, Druids and Death Knights. He stacked the raid with 8 people who would compete for the same T7 token so that he and his friend would have no competition should theirs drop. Suffice to say I decided to take my leave before wasting any time on that group.

  32. Kattrinsaa says:

    An improvement that we should suggest to the folks at WOW is an ebay like rating/comments system. the ratings/comments would apply themselves to all characters on a particular account. making name change anonymity a useless gesture. (I believe there used to be an add-on that did this but i’m not certain if it’s still around)

  33. RJK says:

    What a horrid situation, yes the VOA pugs have been a little hilarious lately. On my hunter I was kicked the other day before the raid cuz we had two hunters already, then asked back when they needed filled only to get in the top 3 dps and get an apology for the kick from the raid leader…i put him on my friends list immediately. :)

    PUGs have really been a necessity and kind of a fun thing in WOTLK…

  34. Dave (redbowl) says:

    “Chawa says: February 24th, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    I hereby nominate Thien to the Kael’thas Hall of Shame!

    This is what I clicked through to post!

  35. ximera says:

    looks like another person for the kael’thas hall of shame. It is always good to have a reference list of who to avoid on the server

  36. bigbearbutt says:

    The thing is, as your comments are making clear… this is actually seeming to be pretty common behavior. And while I think the guy is a tool… I think addition to the asshat roll of shame should really require some true, serious ‘in your face’ activity.

    Like, not taking one class (or an entire set of classes in the case of an OS Tier glove pug) is pretty amazing, and shows a level of selfishness and loot whoredom that I personally would not want in my guild… BUT it is in my opinion nowhere near the level of, say, someone that ran the Heroic VoA, and then later the same day joins another run, zones in with the entire group, and locks them all into a previously cleared run so NONE of them have a chance for another week.

    And yes, that happens out there. Frequently.

    So I am trying to have a sense of proportion about it. Dude gave me a clear example of amazing intentional selfishness, and I figured other people could relate to this behavior, and I’m glad to have read so many comments from folks that are noticing this kind of thing themselves, and might now just say no to joining a PUG like that.

    Oh, and later last night? Got invited into a 25 man VoA that was just forming, I volunteered to go to Dalaran to recruit more, I was immediately given assistant, and I went to Dalaran and recruited the rest of the run up to full.

    I didn’t check a single class. I simply asked in Trade channel for more DPS, Tank and Heals. Period. I did not check gear, I did not ask for DPS scores, I did not ask plus heals or max Health or any of that crap.

    I asked for more Tank, Heals, DPS. If they whispered, I asked which they were to cross off my list, and invited. Period.

    We CRUSHED that run. And yes I had Hunter competition… and no, there were no Hunter drops, lol. But I got two Emblems of Valor, and had a very fun run!

  37. Zeebius says:

    I was fortunate enough to see a Mammoth mount get ninjaed in a 10man VOA I was in…. the person was so “OK” with it, Lookapriest on Mannoroth btw, that it made me sick to my stomach. But I know that most people out there aren’t really like that.

  38. Sim says:

    Heh. Rant time!

    My guild is quite small, just real life friends who try and keep in touch through the game, so for the first time this past weekend, we decided we’d give Naxx-10 a shot, but since we only have 7 80s in the guild at the moment, we had to PUG the other 3 DPS. Up to this point, only one of us had gotten into Naxx at all, since we’d been waiting to have fun with our group, and we made this clear to our PUG’d friends. Cleared to Anub’Rekhan and promptly wipe after the first locust swarm because one of the healers and the offtank weren’t entirely clear on how the fight worked . One of the PUGs says “Sorry guys, this isn’t going to work” and leaves, another goes AFK without warning till we finally have to kick him and the other curses and swears up and down for five minutes about how badly we suck until he finally leaves too. Glad I wasn’t raid leader or I probably would have called it right then, but kudos to the guy who was, because we picked up another 3 DPS and promptly cleared all of Spider and Plague wings without wiping more than once on any boss but Heigan.

    There are newbs and then there are noobs.

  39. Tidecaller says:

    Looks like the LV1 alts are already coming to his defense. I tried to straighten them out for ya, BBB. :)

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15211009354&sid=1

  40. Copey says:

    Yes, it was selfish. But, I’d like to point out that if he really wanted to be terribad, he could have invited a few rogues, and then just loot mastered what he wanted to him self. So, could have been MUCH worse.

    I’ll be honest here; I’ve been selective as to what class I bring on pugs to Heroics and to Naxx 10. For example, I ran Heroic Drak about 12-15 times all the way through (and a few more where we as a group just couldn’t pull it off) farming for Keystone Great-Ring off of The Prophet Tharon’ja. In my mind, it is clearly a tanking ring. I lost it twice to DPS that liked the strength on it under the “Hey, it’s an upgrade from this blue I have…I have just as much right to roll on it as you do”. One was a rogue, and one was a DK. No harsh words, because after the 2nd time I realized “why am I bringing in competition to something I’m farming?” I could have put on Master Loot. I could have been an asshat. But instead, I started bringing mages, warlocks, and shadow priests for DPS. Problem solved, when it finally did drop, there was no competition.

    I don’t think this is a really bad thing, something that his GM would be very upset about. You saw what he was doing, Cass didn’t get saved, no big. I turn down twice as many DKs for pug Naxx runs as I get other classes asking to join. But lets be honest, my core group already has two druids, a DK, and often a mage. Do you seriously want to run a Naxx and have half the Raid rolling against you for T7 tokens? Meanwhile other loot falls and gets sharded cause we don’t have a varied class make up.. I’m a firm believer in trying to get a varied amount of people so that loot doesn’t get tons of competition. VOA is kind of a “try and get as many classes in here as possible” type of thing to me, but if he wants to stack his raid like that, you have the very easy option of not joining it.

    You also have the option to call him out on your blog, and that’s fine. But contacting his GM would seem to be pointless. I’ve been contacted as an officer of a guild about players in my guild that were mis-behaving in Raids. And I guess my thing is as long as he wasn’t ninjaing loot (stealing) or causing raid wipes on purpose (causing ton’s of people grief), then I’m not really sure what the point is.

    I dont’ know, maybe I’m an asshat in your book. But I’m also an asshat that when something falls in Naxx that is a minor upgrade for me, but a big one to another druid or DK or whatever, I’ll pass and just get my little set bonus later. I also carry around a gem of every color and both types of diamonds so if somebody gets something I can gem it there for them right away and they can use it. I also carry around and constantly drop great feasts for pug heroics and raids. Perhaps this Rogue is in a 25 man guild that has a DK main tank, a Druid off tank, a Resto Druid, 3 mages and 2 other rogues. Perhaps he will not get a chance at the valorious pants for months and months because the others need it worse. I’m just saying that there are two sides to every story, and as puggable as VOA is I don’t think him being selfish on it is as bad as it seems to be bothering you.

    Perhaps I’m just used to the asshattery in the game, and I choose to ignore it.

  41. Minos says:

    FaceTank, we got really shafted on the class combo on our tier token. I PuG OS quite often, and most of the time more than 50% of the raid is Druid/Rogue/Mage/Death Knight. Never has it been less than 40%. I know one of the tokens had to get an extra class, but why did they put DKs on the already crowded one?

    BBB, I highly recommend using a spam blocking addon, not only to stop RMT spammers, but the stupidity in Trade chat you mentioned. There’s one drawback, though. After I added “anal” to the keywords mine blocks people looking for “an alchemist”.

  42. Adlib says:

    I agree with others that like your rants on asshats out there, BBB. I also appreciate your advice on druid-y things since I have one high-level alt, and she is a druid. My jaw just dropped when I read that people will zone a whole raid into a previously cleared zone just to screw them. Yikes. I have never previously heard that, just wow.

    Anyway, keep up the good work!!

  43. Adlib says:

    @ Minos…you mean people actually use the correct adjective before the word “alchemist” on your server?? ;)

  44. Zack says:

    On the whole, i am not disgusted by what he did, unlike Loot Ninjaing, but it would have been better if he had an obvious-No Rogue tag in his LFG. I was in a similar pug and we all just dropped and reformed when we realised he was keeping out the rogue who would have filled the group.

    If he calls out how he is stacking the Raid, then he can have a discusion in chat. If people are just going for badges, then the raid makeup is not a huge deal.

    @Inori-If you are running into to many fresh 80’s, just set minimum requirements for loot before you start the raid. If they are reasonable, no one is going to have issues. i.e. If you die in a fire wave no loot, if your dps ON Sarth is less than 1800 no loot. If you are heals and are outhealed by a dps/tank pally/warlock, no loot, etc.

    While these raids are easy for a decent geared run, it does not take many lvl 80 or heroic instances to get geared enough to knock them out.

  45. Aykwa says:

    Blizz leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to being able to deal with jerks. I personally would love to see the ability for the community to “cleanse” itself in some way of the rubbish that everyone hates. Even if it is just by inflicting a little bit of pain on the people.

    For example, an idea I’ve come to love and daydream about every time I find another jerk: BOUNTY SYSTEM!! You would be able to place a bounty in-game on anyone, from either faction, Alliance or Horde. It could be a one-time kill bounty, or a recurring bounty for every kill. There would be no limit on how many people can simultaneously put a bounty on a player. A player with a bounty on their head would have a special bounty icon next to their name. The bounty icon could also indicate how much the bounty is. Players could have an option to turn on bounty tracking on their mini map.

    I would just love to see every jerk out there being tailed by endless concourses of the other faction waiting for him to leave Dalaran so they can off him for his recurring 200g bounty. He’d be permacamped. Obviously would only work on PvP servers really. And Blizz would never do it, but I can dream, can’t I? Besides, this could be a good gold sink for Blizz, and I know how much they like their gold sinks. Regardless, they really need to provide the community with a good way to police itself of those people that everyone else hates. Maybe a 3rd faction of outcasts? LOL.

  46. Copey says:

    There is a perfectly good way to police this. Don’t join the raids. Use your free will to not use an enchanter that after he enchants your stuff tells you that your tip isn’t good enough, and it costs twice as much (before he enchants your stuff, but AFTER you give him the mats, yes this happens). Use your free will to leave a group high and dry when it becomes apperent that the leadership is aweful, and everybody is out for them selves. It’s easy to find nice people to group with, and it’s easy to add people to your ignore list that upset you. In a game where any age of person or any maturity of person can play, that’s about all you really need. Just tell them that you think what they did was b.s., and then ignore them. Easy and done.

  47. Rabas says:

    What a tool, I can’t abide people who act like this in a game. I’m aware they are out there, just try to avoid contact at all costs! Keep grilling him!

  48. Dave (redbowl) says:

    “BUT it is in my opinion nowhere near the level of, say, someone that ran the Heroic VoA, and then later the same day joins another run, zones in with the entire group, and locks them all into a previously cleared run so NONE of them have a chance for another week.”

    This is the reason I won’t run into a VoA pug I didn’t start, and haven’t run one in a while. Happened to me twice in 3 days.

    The other thing that gets me on that and a lot of heroics is the number of people who really put out super low DPS and have no idea why. I’m a late BC baby, and no number cruncher, but I at least shoot for a few certain things before I group for hard stuff, cause I don’t want to be the guy ruining it for everyone. How did you even make it to 80 putting out 300-800 DPS as a hunter, or a non holy specced pally?! I’ve only ever been a druid, but I feel like I could do 300 DPS by accident in caster form by accident with half my talent tree empty. It’s like walking to your local street court and joining a team for some money ball….and then telling them you haven’t played ball since grade school.

  49. Akiosama says:

    Well, one thing that was brought up in discussions here iRL that could have kept all this from happening…

    All the Raid leader needed to say up front was, “I’m really after those legs… If they come up, I’m going to loot them, but if any of the other Rogue Tier pieces come up, other rogues can feel free to roll as needed.”

    That’s all. Then he doesn’t alienate anyone, and he’s made his purpose for putting the raid together clear. It’s also a reasonable request at that point, because he IS coordinating the raid.

    Selfishness in sheep’s clothing is called being courteous in many circles. That’s all it would have taken.

    Instead, B^3 gets to write about it, and the guy gets immortalized. (It’s good for us readers, though. Glad it didn’t put B^3 or Cassie out much at all, too.)

    My 2 yen,

    Akiosama

  50. bigbearbutt says:

    Akiosama, THANK YOU!!!

    That is the same exact thing I said to Cassie. Why not just invite folks, and then tell them up front that’s what you really want?

    I was on the 25 man VoA last week, and one of the Mages, Shenzilo I think, announced that he and the other two Mages had discussed it in whispers already… and if the PvP chest dropped, they were going to pass in favor of Shenzilo… but if the PvE Chest dropped, Shenzilo was passing in favor to them.

    They worked it out, nice and friendly, in advance. Nobody left the group. Dude wanted the PvP chest, tehy worked it out. I’m sure the other two Mages were delighted to know they each had a better shot at the PvE chest if it had dropped.

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