This just blows my mind.

I mean, seriously.

I suppose it happens all the time, but somehow, I never expected to really encounter this level of blatant selfishness in a community of people that will remember a name.

Congratulations to Thien, of Azeroths Redemption, for winning the award this month as the most blatantly selfish prick I’ve recently seen. Way to represent a Guild there, idjit.

Check this out. This is hilarious.

Today is the server reset for raids, right?

So, today is a good day to pug VoA and OS, of course.

I saw a 25 man VoA advertised, volunteered on my Hunter, was invited right away.

Dirz of Essence of Grandeur was also in it, kinda funny since I’d JUST been chatting with him in Icecrown like 5 minutes previously. He’s good people. Remember when Cassie and I were pugging Karazhan, way back when? It was Essence of Grandeur and Dirz we ran with. Good times, good times.

So, cool, fun group already. A few people I know. Well, one anyway. Cassie would enjoy this!

They are discussing what they need. Already have tanks and healers covered, need at least 10 more DPS.

I ask if they’ll invite Cassieann then, a Rogue, for DPS.

They continue to invite others, and to advertise that they need DPS.

I try again. Dirz also mentions that they should invite Cassie. Silence, no reply, but continues to invite others, and to spam trade asking for more DPS.

I arrive in Wintergrasp. I finally see the Wintergrasp chat channel discussion.

It’s a discussion of how Thien has been advertising for more DPS… and how at least three other Rogues have all whispered asking for invites, and Thien is ignoring them completely. As the conversation goes on, Thien continues to spam looking for DPS.

Can anyone guess what class Thien happens to be?

That’s right, the selfish little prick is a Rogue, he is the Raid Leader, he’s controlling all invites, and he is making sure there isn’t a single other Rogue in the run to potentially compete with him in ANY way for any loot.

Now, what makes this hilarious is that a quick check on Armory shows he’s already got the Valorous Shoulders, Valorous Chest and Valorous Gloves. He still has the Gored Hide Leggings, though.

So of course he is locking out any other Rogue from the chance of running and potentially getting Gloves or Chest items… because he wants any Leggings drops all for himself. Never mind that if a Valorous Rogue-only Chest or Glove drops, it’s getting thrown out due to his selfishness.

He’d rather throw out gear than to have gear drop that he has to roll against someone else for.

Just… no, really. Would you want THAT mentality on YOUR raid? Would you REALLY?

I have expected, being the kind of person that I am, to run into this kind of behavior before.

Still, to have such an incredibly blatant example of someone that starts a raid for no other reason than to control the configuration of classes, so as to make absolutely sure that they, and only they, will get what they want if it drops?

Unbelieveable.

This… this is how Mammoth mounts get ninjaed, ya know? Having someone out only for themselves in charge of your run. I’d never trust Thien with master looter, ever, even on a Hellfire Ramparts Death Knight pug, after seeing the lengths he’ll go to for control of loot. Because he clearly cares for only one thing. Himself.

Do you think Thien has no problem acting like that in this, the most obvious and public of venues, because he doesn’t think his guild would object to that kind of behavior? Do you think that he actually doesn’t recognize what is wrong with his behavior? Is it possible to act like that in a social game, after hitting level 80 and being in a the raiding scene for a while, and NOT know that there is a problem with it? 

Good lord, is it me? Am I out of line in thinking this kind of behavior is just… well, unbelieveable?

I swear, I feel like Lewis Black, looking at someone acting like this and shaking my head, dumbfounded by yet another selfish assclown.

Well, I’ll mention the incident to his guild leader, because I know that I, personally, as a guild leader would desperately want to know about that kind of thing if someone in my guild had done it.

But the thought I’m left with is that maybe it really is just me. Maybe I’m the only one that sees this kind of behavior, and thinks there is something seriously wrong with this fucknut. Maybe I’m going to whisper the GL of that guild, and get a “He did what? Dude, so what? Chill, it’s just pixels, lols” in reply.

I don’t know. I used to have higher expectations of my fellow players. These days, I’m just happy if they don’t start another ANAL something or other link spam competition in the Trade channel.

Of course, I left the raid immediately. Life is simply too short to waste it on asshats. Made me sad, I was looking forward to running with Dirz, but that’s life sometimes.

I’m sure they found a replacement for my DPS in about two seconds… and I’ll really go out on a limb and wager it wasn’t a Rogue. :)

One last thing. Cassie told me that, since Dan at WoW Insider linked to me today, I really shouldn’t get all ranty and pissy about something like this. What will all those potential new readers think?

Well, hopefully, if you came here and read this, what you’ll think is that I have zero tolerance for asshats. And if you also dislike asshats, you’ll feel at home, and welcome enough to pull up a comfy chair and stay a while.

And if, by chance, you ARE an asshat… then my hope is that you’ll go the hell away before I taunt you a second time.

61 Responses to “New asshat of the day – the selfish raid leader”
  1. bigbearbutt says:

    Copey, I would never say you’re an asshat. You’ve commented many times on this blog over the months, and you’ve always been very nice, polite, and had very well reasoned things to say. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you.

    On the other hand, from what you’re saying, I do think that I would not want to be in your guild, because again, strictly from what you’ve said… you don’t care if people act mature and polite and considerate towards other people in the game, and you take no action if it’s brought to your attention that they aren’t. So long as they are not blatantly acting as Ninjas, you feel it’s not that big a deal.

    As a guild leader, that is certainly your choice. If you have been told about problems other people have had with your guild members, and you feel the issue isn’t worth pursuing because it’s not that serious… well, that’s your decision. It’s the reputation of your guild, and it’s the character of people you want to play with, not mine.

    People who show that they are not considerate of others, in the guild or out, aren’t the kind of people I choose to hang out and spend time with, so I do things differently. I’m sure it prevents me from seeing raid progression. It severely limits the number of people I’ll consider for membership. That’s just the choice I’m happy to make.

    But I want to be clear that NO, I do not think that stacking a run, in 5 man or raid, with people that you know won’t be competition for your drop, if that means intentionally excluding people you know would want to go, is either nice or appropriate.

    I am positive it happens all the time. It still doesn’t mean it’s right.

    Please don’t come to me and try and justify it, because I don’t want to hear it. Passing people over for a chance to have fun, simply so you don’t have competition, is wrong in my opinion. I can’t possibly see my opinion on that changing, either.

    If you have something you want, something you really, really want, then invite folks in the run and be honest up front. And I don’t mean just tell them that if it drops, it’s yours. Tell them that you are on the run specifically for that one drop, and let them know why it’s important to you, and ask if anyone would have a problem with that. Let them know that it’s important to you. Give them a chance to make up their own minds.

    I ran Azjol-Nerub a lot for the Essence of Gossamer. I wasn’t shy about saying that I wanted a shot at that Trinket. You know what? I also made it clear that I had no problem if another person on the run that intended to tank rolled on it too. Because there will always be another shot. It just so happened that it dropped when nobody else wanted it.

    Cassieann has been playing her hunter a lot. There are several items she’d love, Trinkets and Necklaces and Rings, items that are also desired by every DPS class. She has never, not once, said up front that she is only going for the Incisor from Drak’Theron Keep, or the Red Dragon Blood trinket from Nexus, or any of that stuff.

    Why? Because they are all items that every DPS is going to want, and she isn’t going to tell people up front and put pressure on them to pass. Because if she did say something up front, she knows that in our guild, people WOULD pass, and it would make her feel bad because she knows everybody wants those items. Better to say nothing, see what drops, take a random roll, and wait for the loot to fall her way.

    And guess what? She’s been on many runs, with many guild Hunters and Warriors and Death Knights, and the Red Dragon Blood one has dropped several times. She never won the roll, and instead of getting pissy about it, she just kept going. Because sooner or later, it’ll drop, she’ll win the roll, and have it. And in the meantime… she’s having fun.

    And why looky there, we went a couple nights ago with a guild Hunter and Cassie’s Hunter, and it dropped, and the other Hunter won the roll. And the other Hunter already had the Mirror of Truth and the Loetheb Naxx trinket equipped.

    Cassie said grats, and we went to leave… and the other Hunter said, “Wait a minute, I just looked at Cassie’s gear, and this would be a much better upgrade for her than for me. I’m already hit capped, I was just rolling for a trinket to use when I change my gear around and need the extra hit. You go ahead and take it. I’ll have another chance at it some other time.”

    She never said a word about wanting it, he offered it on his own initiative after already winning the roll. We didn’t even know what Trinkets he had until after, when I was surprised he was giving it to her.

    That is the kind of behavior I used to be shocked at seeing. These days, that’s what I have come to expect from nice people. People who care about other players, to want them to have fun too, and to be willing to look at what drops, and if you think they could use it more than you can, to be the kind of person that will demand they take it instead.

    I’m sorry man, but if you need the drop so bad you are intentionally excluding people… I still don’t think it’s right. I understand you can get real frustrated over never getting a drop, lord knows I still remember my frustration over never winning the roll for the tanking ring in Caverns Of Time: Durnholde, even when I was losing to Fury Warriors and such. But it’s just not right in my book.

  2. Rob says:

    Apparently from the official forum post, 99% of users are immature asshats. So…yeah. I’m kinda burned out on the game, having seen this behavior over and over again. Happened in my own guild, the one that i co-founded. I had a loot policy (need/greed in 10 mans), got a guy to be RL for naxx, finally got to 80 and naxx, only to find him picking and choosing loot to give to his ‘buddies’. WTF. GL (my BFF) doesn’t do anything. Okay, fine whatever. Just won’t run naxx any more. Had more luck getting loot on random naxx pugs than with the guild. Oh well, that’s life. Loot isn’t everything.

  3. Copey says:

    Big Bear, I totally respect your opinion, and to be honest it’s not a bad one to have. You uphold a bright shining standard in a game that quite honestly I don’t think the majority of players are up to meeting. I’m not going to try and justify leaving people out of my runs. I’ll run my runs and take who I want, as any other person in the game is capable of doing, just as you are capable of doing. We may agree to disagree, and I’m fine with that.

    My only real comment here, and this is on behalf of my current guild, we are brand new. Yes I am an officer. But the incident where a person complained to me was when I was in a different guild (Fatal Error I believe, it was long ago), and it was about the amount of DPS a rogue was putting out. It was so low it basically made the run they were in impossible. Yes, he shouldn’t have been in there, but it’s not like he is going to get kicked out of the guild, as the person clearly wanted me to do.

    Don’t think poorly of my current guild because of my comment is what I mean to say. I have a feeling that my current GM is more like you than me, as he has refused to invite several people we both know because of past actions such as ninjaing frozen orbs, and complaining non-stop on vent about never getting drops in Naxx. And I will uphold his standard, and, since we have had this conversation, I’ll mention it to him if I intend to do any runs where I may be farming something specific. Ask him if it would bother him if one of his officers did such a thing as take clothies on a farm trip for leather items.

  4. Brian says:

    I don’t have a problem with people stacking groups for loot reasons, though I do agree that Dirz was taking it too far. When I have a choice of DPS, I’ll pick the ones that won’t all be rolling on the same loot (as me and as each other). Vault is probably the instance it’s most important to do this for, since all the loot is class specific, the main reason people run it is for the T7 gear, and half the drops can’t even be DEed if that class isn’t present. Making sure you’re the only rogue in a 25-man run is overly selfish, though; I would draw the line at 2 of a class for 10-man and 4 of a class for 25-man.

  5. Klinderas says:

    I don’t know if this will help, but…

    No, you’re not the only person who thinks this kind of behaviour deserves an ass kicking.

    This would be one of those times I “accidentally” misdirect to a guy… by accident!

    I swear!

  6. Yeebo says:

    Great post. The thing that burns me the most is that people get upset when they are called out on things like this.

    The other day I joined a 25OS that a druid tank was running. At the end he gave out all the loot skipping over the druid token then after the satchel was given out, gave himself the token, dropped group, logged out and dropped vent…yes we were in his guild’s vent for a +1 attempt. I was soo ticked as I had 2 of my druid healers in my guild on that run and both got screwed. I proceeded to put him on my friends list and look out for future dealings. 2 days ago I saw him trying to put a 25 man naxx pug together and everytime he spammed his invites, I spammed that he ninja’d the token in OS and could not be trusted. So many ppl were giving me grief cause I was telling ppl about it. I was perplexed that ppl were telling me to quite crying and so forth when I was just trying to serve the pug community with a nice warning.

    So now I only run my own pugs or guild runs. I’m not sure what drove me more nuts, the ninja or ppl who don’t care that ppl ninja.

  7. Friginn says:

    BBB, just wanted to respond that I am with you on your crusade against asshats. I play a ret pally (name above) on the Perenolde server. It never ceases to amaze me the wonderful diversity of total asshats you can find playing along with you. Stacking the deck in your favor is one thing, but holding up a raid because you are a selfish bastard….not good. I would have left too. I’d also like to shine a light on (hopefully one focused with a magnifying glass so as to fry them like ants) groups of people who stand on their mounts around/on a flight master. Their only purpose could be to deny folks access to the FP. Seriously. Do you have NOTHING better to do then hang out on the flight master? The more I play, the more I seem to be turning into that crazy old guy who stands on his front lawn and shakes his fist at the passing cars. It’s nice to look over at the house next door and see a big furry neighbor shaking his meaty paw right along with me. Keep up the blog!

  8. Suci says:

    With all the epic items that’s dropping and crafted all over the place, you’d think people would be a bit more easy going with loots. Unfortunately, I’ve encounter the same type selfishness more than once. One rogue RL and one druid RL, both for VoA run. The rogue did not want to invite other rogues and the druid (tank) announced that he will roll on an offspec gear but would not allow other druids (me-balance) to roll on their offspec gear. And it seemed I’ve encountered more ‘ninja’ in these one boss type of encounter lately (twice in OS and once in VoA).
    People need to chill and relax. Seriously…. Most likely you can clear (H)Naxx with heroic gear… well… maybe 10 man… definitely 10 man. You don’t need those purples thaaatt baaadd…

  9. Leah says:

    my first reaction would be – damn, what a greedy ass and then… I remembered not taking a retribution paladin to heroic nexus run on my resto shaman, who said honestly from the start that he would only come for a chance at an epic healing mace. having run the damn place daily for close to 2 weeks, I didn’t want any chance that I’d lose it if it finaly dropped. which is why I took so long to post :/ while this guy was probably going just a tad overboard, I can see where he might have been coming from. at least he didn’t invite other rogues and then masterlooted the items to himself.

    so I will not cast stones on him becasue in the end, I might not go that far myself, but I have enough selfishness in me to reject a perfectly good candidade to ensure that I get the loot I came for. guilty. I’d be nice and upfront about it, but I’d do it.

  10. Fulano says:

    I guess my standards about player’s behavior has gone so low that the tale narrated on this post doesn’t surprise me at all. Also I don’t consider the guy to be doing anything dishonest. Greedy? yes, dishonest? no. He wanted his loot and he probably didn’t want to go several more weeks losing the roll. It was HIS raid, HIS rules. Had master looted the rogue drop to himself without asking and without consideration for the other rogues present, then the story would be different.

    In my humble opinion, you guys are making too much of a big deal about something so little. I hate ninjas, I hate when people start a raid while secretly planning to master loot some rare drop to themselves. At least this guy avoided doing that. Also one could say: “he should have said so, he should have been honest and clear about it”, but then, look at all the comments on this post.

    In other words, he didn’t save anyone to his raid, he didn’t ninja loot the drop and the rogues who were left out had the choice to join another raid or start their own raid, in short: he didn’t interfere with the ability of the other rogues to get their loot that week. Morally gray? yes, but it could have been and I have seen worse.

  11. Inquisitor says:

    If I ever feel up to running another VoA10 PuG, I’m going to try really hard to make it one of each class, I think.

    Similarly, for VoA25, how many class/spec combos are there out there? I make it 21 with a mental count. You could stack a raid to minimise wasted loot for everyone.

    Might be hard to fill the slots perfectly, but I reckon a lot of people would come out of the woodwork for something clever and/or fun like that.

    Reset day today, maybe I’ll give it a shot this evening.

    Doesn’t work so well for OS, of course.

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