::ducks::

what!?!

- – - Acutally I maintain a healer priest as well who’s holy / disc and pwsheild is my best friend. I can usually survive a charge or mitigate by using fade which Trees do not get Trees get ‘OH CRAP BEAR’. Half a dozen one or the other people still have to know how to play what they play to be effective.

(a little of silly a little of my two cents)

As someone with druid, hunter 80, priest (75), mage, pala and rogue 70, warrior, dk, warlock and shaman over 60, I’ve played them all to this point

1) 5% is not enough. Certainly not enough to justify rolling such a dps character. I don’t see why anyone in the game should roll anything but a druid or a pala at the moment. Anything else is pointless. Perhaps DK because they are so easy and skip 55 levels.

2) As a pure dps, I don’t need to tank to make me happier. I NEED TO HEAL. Pains about levelling rogue, warriors and mages is that they can’t heal. They pull, pull, pull, sit. Pull too many? Die. Heal is what we need. Half the time dodge, cc or armor compensates for tanking. Ok, so warriors can tank, but its the lack of heal. Warlocks as a dps class has this sorted… Hunters with pet heals.

3) As a healer, its ability to survive attacks for short periods. Or survive a hit. Druids can always bear form. But a priest gets charged and thats it. Angel.

Its not exposed so far, and it wasn’t clear at start of wrath, but the next 10 levels will see some classes disappear. Its a chore and a bit to level my priest from 70 to 80. Now I wish I’d went with the pally. My rogue and mage aint going anywhere soon. I barely see need to bring my hunter up next time.

Dual spec has big consequences to the game… Would be nice if someone recognised it.

It comes down to if the player has done the research, geared properly, speced properly and knows what the heck they are doing. I have seen it so many times people do lower dps in raids then my below 80 characters do. If my Arcane mage at 75 is doing 1300 dps an arcane mage at 80 had better be doing more then that.

There are so many factors that go into dps that just saying a class is overpowered or hybrids are stronger then pure classes is a complete falacy. Blizzard tunes abilities and gear based off of data and information far more advanced then what you or any other player could get from running a few 10 mans and 25 mans and then pointing at the dps report.

How can both sides be convinced that this is the end of their style?

Unless you are a very endgame raider (you know, your guild was doing Sunwell before the huge nerf) I cannot imagine this having much impact on you. Unless you are decked out in the best the game has to offer, skill should theoretically be the deciding factor. And even then, this is how I see it sifting out. Raids will compose of good portions of each for the reasons everyone has mentioned. In order to maximize DPS they will take mostly the pure DPS do to their slight inherent superiority (assuming the players are of equal skill; I JUST got good with afflic and now they are more or less nerfing it :P). On the other hand, some fights will emerge where an extra tank or heals will be useful, and the top raiding guilds will fill those spots with hybrids. And after they have done it a few times and are damn good at it, their last 4 or 5 dps will no longer matter and they will take pretty much anyone.

I am saying this as if it were in the game right now, but we all know it is not. We have all seen a DK tear up a comparably geared mage, and ret pallies embarrass rogues (not as much anymore, but still). The balance is a fragile thing and I doubt most people will ever be happy. I fall on the “pure” side of the debate purely by the numbers as dual spec hybrids have a shot at more raid spots. Pure can only ever shoot for DPS spots and as such should have a slight edge. Hybrids have a shot at other slots even if they do not get into DPS.

But in general, my experience has been that in casual raiding a warm body that is competent at their job trumps all.

I think dual specc is a nice thing, but I don’t think they will be deciding, from a design standpoint, to widen the gap they already think they have, to make up for the convenience of it. I already have gear for healing and tanking, and have respecced during a raid. Not often, but I have. Making this easier isn’t going to cause them to have rogues and mages, already doing 5% more when fully specced and geared, do now, let’s say, 10% more.

Dual spec is a nice thing for every class. For some, like druids, it’s a great pve boon. Tank and healing spec ftw. Unfortunately for, let’s say mages, they don’t get the same pve advantage. But, if you like to pve and pvp, it’s great. Of course, a hybrid, let’s say druid healer, could also take advantage of that, pve and pvp healing specs. So really, isn’t this all just the same “hybrids have it too good” argument all over again?

And since I also play both types, I see both sides. But I really don’t think making hybrids even lower on the DPS charts, from a design standpoint, is the answer. The truth is, they are doing a pretty good job, and if dual spec really does cause top end guilds to start dropping mages and rogues, they will address it.

If hybird DPS must always be worse than Pure, why would ever bring a Hybrid to DPS. They would be pigeonholed to heal or tank. It’s disappointing that GC doesn’t see that.

I want Hybrids to be competitive in all roles. I believe Hybrids need to be competitive in all roles. Mainly because I don’t want to be pigeonholed back into Hybrid = Healer like we were in the past. I won’t go back to healing, I just won’t do it.

I call Shenanigans

As for your statement and GC confirmation of that, i have to agree with you. But i also remember a blue post stating that they are not going to take into account duel spec when balancing the classes. They say that now, but i have a feeling that in a few months time they are going to re-consider that decision. It’s got to be really hard not to notice how much easier a druid or paladin is going to find it to get a group. especially if they are healer tank specced. Not just that, but i for one as a raid leader would invite a paladin over a rogue, mainly cause at some point i know i might need an extra healer and he’ll be able to switch and do the job. He might not be as good as a dedicated healer (cause he doesn’t play it that much) but he’ll have the basics down and be able to carry his weight. So I think it’s just a matter of time before the rogues and mages out there stat to cry, especially rogues, as they bring very little to a raid other than some great sustained DPS. at least a hunter has a pet that can, if needed, off tank, a mage is a great water cooler, a warlock, we’ll I’ve seen the videos of their pets off-tanking or even main tanking.