I’m looking at my gear lists, as I said I would, to develop the new Bear tanking lists for the new world order.

While I’m doing so, I had a couple thoughts I wanted to jot down now, while folks were just starting to gather voluminous Emblems of Conquest and Emblems of Triumph.

Just a couple things, really.

First, yes I know that you hate your Idol of Terror. You’ve been stuck with that puppy for tanking since Kara, and it hurts, my precious.

With the many Emblems of Conquest you are now getting from Heroics, I’m sure it seems like a no brainer to grab the Idol of the Corruptor for only 19 Emblems of Conquest.

Before you do that, I’d like for you to look closely at the Idol of Mutilation, which you can buy for 25 Emblems of Triumph.

For those that cannot see Wowhead links, Corruptor grants a chance of 153 Agility for 12 seconds after a Mangle. An über-Terror Idol. Mutilation, on the other hand, has both a Bear form effect, and a cat form effect, and both CAN be active at the same time if you are fast shifting. In Bear, your Lacerate and Swipe have a high chance of giving you 200 Dodge Rating for 9 seconds, and in Cat form your Mangle and Shred have a chance to grant you 200 Agility for 12 seconds.

PTR testing indicates that, especially with multiple targets for Swipe, it’s possible and even darn near likely to have the 200 Dodge Rating up 100% of the time.

So, all that being said… before you spend 19 Emblems of Conquest right out of the gate, think about whether you are willing to wait, save your Emblems of Triumph from doing the Daily Heroics (or for the raiding among us, your boss kill drops), and spend the Emblems of Conquest on something else first that may last you a bit longer.

Emblems of Conquest can also be used to purchase;

So, there are several other things you could upgrade first while you collect those Triumph Emblems.

As far as other choices in Triumph Emblem gear, you’ve got a non-Tier Helm, non-Tier shoulders, a trinket and a pair of rings. Most of the stuff, except for the helm, will be extremely good for a long time from Conquest Emblems ad won’t be superceded just from Triumph Emblems, so plan for what you want, what you really, really want.

I personally will probably buy the Conqueror’s Nightsong Headgear for 58 Emblems of Conquest first, because then I can stop feeling guilty about not doing PvP in Wintergrasp to get the Titan-Forged Leather Helm of Triumph.

Anyway, have fun, folks!

19 Responses to “Thoughts while studying Bear gear”
  1. Kemonojin says:

    Oooo, shiny. I’m definately after the idol of mutilation first… LOT more likely I can get 25 of those than 19 of a big raid thing…

  2. Christopher says:

    Sort of tangential to your post, and also somewhat self-evident from looking at the stat itemization, but I’d rather get it straight from the Bear himself: as a young bear just getting into tanking, what sort of itemization should I be looking for on my gear? How do bear tanking stats differ from cat stats? Do we need defense at all?
    .-= Christopher´s last blog ..Inappropriate comments from imaginary people =-.

  3. Caelean says:

    Christopher:

    As a tank, you need lots of Health, so stamina (and a few trinkets and such that add directly to health).

    You need to reduce incoming damage, which for a bear is armor and dodge. Dodge is based on Agility, Dodge Rating, and Defense. +1 Defense and +1 Dodge are pretty close to being equal in value. Agility also increases armor slightly, as well as crit (which increases rage / threat).

    Expertise is important because every parry from a boss results in a quick counter-attack. This can result in substantial extra burst damage being received. Hit is basically gravy. Haste can be a tiny liability if you aren’t expertise capped. (Faster attacks mean more parries received.)

    The Savage Defense shield is based on crit and attack power, but isn’t powerful enough for those stats to really be directly important. So strength is also not very useful as it only increases attack power. Armor Penetration isn’t really useful either. We don’t Block or Parry, so anything that adds directly to them isn’t useful.

    For your main 8 leather pieces, some slightly favor bear over cat, but many of them are hybrids and can be effectively used for either. If you’re going for dedicated bear gear, gem and enchant for Stamina for the most part. If you plan to use it for cat and bear forms, gemming for Agility isn’t bad.

    For your weapon, check out the Argent Crusade staff with armor, etc. Any feral weapon (i.e. 2H weapon with +Agi and +Sta) can be functional. Some slightly favor cat or bear, but the differences aren’t as big as in the past.

    For the other pieces (necklace, rings, trinkets, cloak), look for “tank gear”, although things with parry or block are limited. Some have lots of +sta, or +armor, +defense, and +dodge. Having an “avoidance” set with +dodge and +agi as well as a “stamina” set isn’t a bad idea. Keep your best items in each category, in any event.

    Good luck, and welcome to the world of feral tanking!

  4. Copey says:

    Kalon over on ThinkTank seems to disagree about the Idol of Mutilation. I’m not sure how deeply either of you have researched it, but seriously, after one night of heroics I had enough Conquest badges to upgrade to the Idol of the corruptor. Seems like a no brainer to get that.

    Getting those 25 triumph badges on the other hand…those are going to be a long time coming since my guild is now going to concentrate on farming heroics and then finishing Ulduar. It will take weeks to get enough triumph badges to buy Mutilation. Even if it IS better then Corruptor, isn’t Corruptor worth having (to upgrade an item that you were using to tank Kara with) while you grind out those triumph badges? It’s only 19 of em, and is huge bang for your buck in my most humble opinion.

  5. Runycat says:

    At first glance, the Idol of Mutilation looks pretty jawesome. You get that 200 Dodge on a Swipe or Lacerate for 16 seconds, which, presumably, you’ll be using a lot. On the other hand, the Idol of the Corruptor (now purchasable with emblems) gives 153 AGI for 12 seconds. 200 Dodge Rating is a little greater than 4% Dodge. Okay, cool. What’s REALLY neat about the Idol of the Corruptor is that the AGI gains actually scale with Kings, MotW, and Survival of the Fittest. Instead of the 153 AGI, you really have something closer to 181 AGI, which is ~3.7% Dodge.

    Additionally, you have to remember that AGI gives us armor and Crit, which are great mitigation and threat building tools. 181 AGI = ~2.34% Crit and 391.3944 Armor. I think that the Idol of Mutilation is going to be fantastic for Cats, but if I had to choose the Idol of the Corruptor or Mutilation for Bear, I’d stick with the Corruptor.

    To recap:

    Idol of Mutilation (Bear Only): 200 Dodge Rating, >4% Dodge.
    Idol of the Corruptor (Bear Only): ~3.7% Dodge, ~2.34% Crit, ~391 AC.

    More bang for the buck, and it’s a lot cheaper. Saving my Triumph stuffs for other fun items.
    .-= Runycat´s last blog ..Not the same old “sheet:” 3.2 DPS Gear Recommendations =-.

  6. Iron says:

    BBB – I need your help. Seriously, though. I posted a feral shot rotation question moments ago on my tanking blog: http://cantankwilltravel.blogspot.com/

    I’ve been running a ‘test’ tanking only using Swipe and Maul – no lacerate and no mangle. And it is ridiculously successful and fast, fast clears of the content with dps lagging in threat by at least half. Even ulduar geared dps cannot catch me in my meager “entry level epics”. This cannot be right?!

    Please take a look and post a comment with your thoughts. It certainly has gearing implications but I am wondering if everyone has a similar experience or if there really is a solid reason to be using lacerate and mangle anymore since swipe and maul are safely clearing the content absurdly quickly with absolutely zero threat concerns.

    As always my furry friend, I greatly appreciate your sageness in these matters! Beartooth on Alleria is my furry one.
    .-= Iron´s last blog ..Bear Tanking Rotation Help?! Swipe Maul Swipe Maul… =-.

  7. Wentockmosha says:

    Don’t forget to run the new 5 Man instance in Normal some. There is a great tanking trinket that will replace the one from old Heroic AJN. We’re finding that the loot is great for filling out hit issues in your gear as well. If you like the “Silence of the Lambs” helm there is a good one in Heroic mode of it that I used to replace my Titan-Forge.

  8. Lupius says:

    Shouldn’t the recent change to resilience buff the tanking viability of pvp leather by a crap load?

  9. Copey says:

    I do believe that resilience only applies to damage inflicted by other players now. Though, I don’t recall where I read that. So it’s a non-factor when looking at pvp items for pve tanking.

  10. bigbearbutt says:

    Copey is absolutely right, Lupius, the change to resilience is only supposed to apply to damage caused by other players, and is supposed to have no affect on NPC caused damage.

    I did research it at the time, found a blue post verifying that was the intent, and moved on. I have NOT verified that is is working that way live, I simply had too much fun playing last night. I’m sure someone has checked, and I’ll look into it later. But yes, it was stated that the resilience change would only affect player-caused damage, and should leave Bear itemization against PvE content unchanged as far as resilience is concerned.

    And Runycat has an outstanding point, that the Agility buffage of Corruption is awesome and makes it a close run race between the two.

    The simple fact is, when I apply the math to my own playstyle, I feel it is worth it to me to get the Triumph Idol, because first, of all the options it’s the one I like best from Triumph Emblems, and second, because I want to experiment with fast shifting while tanking and trash clearing and messing around, to see if I can get both buffs up when I play. It’s a fun personal challenge.

    As always, I remind folks that, although other folks may take the stance of telling you what you should do, I prefer to assume you are all knowledgeable and intelligent, are perfectly capable of making up your own minds, and thus I simply show you some options I’m thinking of and let you decide for yourself what sounds fun or most effective for you.

    As I said above, “before you spend 19 Emblems of Conquest right out of the gate, think about whether you are willing to wait”… think about whether you are willing to wait before trading in your Idol of Terror, think about what you want to buy most, think about the options… and go with your own choice, not mine.

    Last night one of our guildies bought the Idol of Corruption, and all I could think was, “Rock on.” I didn’t think “Oh, you fool! You should have waited!” Because I know damn well Sux knows how to play, and he clearly looked at the choices and went with the one that kicked ass for him.

    Me, I know that I could easily buy the Idol of Corruption first and not worry about it, because it just doesn’t take that long to get Emblems from Heroics. I’ve got the 500 Emblem achievement on Windshadow, and that doesn’t count the massive quantities of Emblems I got from Windstar. But I also know I have a personal desire for a pretty hat. So I shall go out and get myself a pretty hat. :)

  11. Astemus says:

    I was thinking about waiting to get the mutilation idol, but MAN there are so many cool items to buy with triumph badges. And also, I use the gearscore addon, and that stupid terror idol was just killing my score. Personally, I plan on spending my first triumph badges on the Clutch of Fortification, whenever i manage to get enough badges that is.

    Overall, it was a great patch. I was saving wintergrasp marks and picked up the pants (AMAZING for bears), the bracers (pretty solid upgrade if you’re not in ulduar), and then the pvp ring (just to fill out my pvp set). It was a good night. I was going to totally buy the Deadly helm, but I forgot I have to wait till the next arena season :(

    Oh, and there are some nice upgrades from the new 5-man, but when I was looking at them, I realized that the slots they are for I already have decent items there. But there are still 2 items I am looking forward to getting… the ring from heroic and the trinket from normal.
    .-= Astemus´s last blog ..Guess what’s left… =-.

  12. Copey says:

    Rock on dude. To each his own. Personally, I’ve felt so offended for….a really long time that a badge of Justice item was my best in slot. The Ulduar upgrade for bear tanking was out of my reach, and when it got changed over to 19 badges…I wept with joy.

    Or something like that.

    I was excited. Rolling with both procs (if that’s possible) would be pretty sweet on the triumph one for sure though. It’s nice that there are some buyable options for us after having that slot be the same item for everybody for so long.

  13. Elathan says:

    Thanks for the breakdown of the new gear available to us fuzzy butt meat shields BBB. I haven’t had the time here lately to look into them all for myself (Job kind of takes priority at the moment lol) I literally almost did some back flips seeing the upgrade for the idol of terror is now purchaseable with emblems (well at least my heart did a few mock somersaults and my druid soul did a chicken dance) Since my guild has recently retired from the raiding scene, and I no longer have the time to devote to PUGing alot on the game, I am going to go with the Curropter idol for now till I can get more emblems for the other new shineys. It is going to be heavenly to be able to open my character window and not have to utter a silent death wish at the Devs after seeing that BoJ idol still sitting there all cozy in its slot, tormenting me. Ok, enough ranting. RAWR!

  14. Kelarr says:

    I highly recommend the Conquest badge belt, which I believe was 2nd best in slot being the crafted belt before 3.2 came out. With the hit and expertise on it, I’m now hit capped and have an expertise of 41 after respeccing to put the 2nd point in Primal Precision. Also, every bear should be farming the normal version of the new Trial of the Champion 5man for The Black Heart. I don’t know how many times I’ve run AN and have only seen Essence drop once and got out-rolled by my guildmate.

  15. Suxxy says:

    Yup, I went with the Idol of Corruption. I haven’t studied the form guide too much, but looked around after having done 1 day of Heroics, had over 20 Emblems of Conquest and 2 Emblems of Triumph. Like many posters here, I looked at that and went “yup, it’s so worth it (to me)”. I set up NeedToKnow and went to test the proc rate on single target 82 leets; giant skeletons in Icecrown, great for threat testing btw (sorry Goo, just too good to keep secret). Kept my old, old idol, as I had 2 hours to trade the new model back in (win/win).
    Mangle, FFF, Lacerate, Lacerate, Mangle (Proc), rinse/repeat. It was proc’ing, Mongoose was proc’ing, shield was proc’ing; you beauty.
    Change to cat, mangle spam, Proc, Proc, Proc.
    Happy feral.
    When dps’ing I have changed my priority list to mangle until it proc’s and then use my normal attacks. Subjectively my dps has increased (yet to test this objectively).

  16. bigbearbutt says:

    Actually, what I did was get neither so far.

    I found the Heirloom vendor next to the old Emblems of Heroism quartermaster (thanks to Falromord), and saw that every single Heirloom Bind to Account chest armor can be purchased for 40 Emblems of Heroism.

    I traded in Emblems of Conquest and Emblems of Valor to join my 24 Emblems of Heroism, and bought the Cloth Armor Heirloom item. I’ve already got the shoulders and two handed staff heirloom items on my level 23 Mage alt… along with the +30 Spellpower enchant on the staff.

    NOW I am finally done with Heirloom items entirely, and will begin saving for some Idols and Conquest gear. And I gots four Emblems of Triumph! sigh, so pretty.

  17. Caelean says:

    You know, the heirloom health and mana recovery trinkets might be really handy. :-)

    I’ve got exactly 40 Emblems of Heroism, and I’m trying to figure out what to buy. The heirloom chest is looking pretty sweet.

    (Oh, and the honor chest is basically the same stats as the Titan-forged, but probably only requires 3-4 wins in WG with the weekly quests. On our server, the alliance wins about 80% of the time on offense, so 4 15-minute battles can get you any item for honor points.)

  18. thehamster says:

    BigBearButt, you definitely have the right idea but I think you’re going about it backward. Instead of saving up conquest badges for other stuff, I’d consider going for the idol of the corruptor and saving your triumph badges for other stuff (like that ridiculously good trinket). The Idol of the corruptor is close enough to the Idol of mutilation (at least from a bear standpoint) that the idol of mutilation should really be the last thing a bear gets with his Emblems of Triumph.

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