I said it a long time ago, way back in the darkest days of the blog.

I said back then that I have certain expectations of other people during a run in the game. Any run, any content, any level.

The base expectation I have is, the people involved all attempt to play their class the best they know how, out of respect for everyone on the run.

All of the people involved.

A lot of time has passed since I used to talk about raid progression and Karazhan and even dallying within Gruul’s Lair.

Sometimes I’ve played in groups while chatting, and once notably while on a live podcast. But in my defense, when you’re normally raid leading and main tanking, sitting back and just doing ranged DPS does leave you with some extra capacity for chatting. Especially if the raid is a pug that’s not using ventrilo. I’m not saying you’ve got to be a single minded machine, I’m just saying that you need to be doing your best to play your class. If you can do that and chat too, hey, rock on.

My base expectation, that people who commit to group activities act with competence in playing their class, has not wavered.

I have other preferences, things that a player can do to move them, in my mind, from “meets expectations” to all sorts of categories far above.

To reach the pinnacle of excellence as a group player takes more than just being a really nice person. It also takes playing your class effectively, being prepared with mats/reagents/poisons/food, showing consideration for the others by actively trying to get TO the instance or raid as fast as possible, not going afk for extended periods without explanation, and not having a million disconnects in mid fight.

There are always exceptions. For example, sometimes disconnects happen without warning. It’s life, things happen. Nobody I know has ever held it agasint someone. On the other hand, if you know you’re getting disconnected every 5 to 10 minutes at random, and it’s been happening all day, it would be rude to ask a group to join you on a run without warning them about it first.

Sometimes you don’t have the food you need for a run. On a tough fight, with lots of wipes while learning content, you can run through food at a frightening rate. Likewise elixirs and flasks, and reagents for buffs. In my opinion, that kind of thing happens a lot, especially with dual spec. If you’re running tank for a few weeks, it’s easy to forget you ran out of healie food a while back until someone asks you to heal.

In my opinion, if you’re trying to start the group yourself, you should make sure you’re prepared. If someone asks you out of the blue to come help, well, if you didn’t have things on hand, it’s perfectly understandable. Circumstances change, there are no absolutes.

I’m pretty irritable about the “knowing where the hell to go” thing. Especially for Azeroth raids and instances. The game has been out for a very long time. If you seek out a Molten Core run, you ought to know where to go by now. If you are asked to come join, again, it’s more understandable. But if you want to start the runs, why haven’t you bothered to go check it out before now?

But the base requirement, the absolute foundation all else springs from, is trying your best to play your class well.

That includes having a spec that makes some form of sense… I don’t care what the reasoning is, I just ask that there be one, just to reassure me that you thought about what you wanted to do. I’m fine with a Beastmaster Hunter with a Pet Tanking spec in an instance run. Optimized for solo farming of BRD with your pet Turtle? Sounds fine with me, I bet that’s fun!

That also includes having gear choices made for comprehensible reasons. That same Hunter in all cloth spellpower gear? Girlfriend, who HAVE you been listening to? Trade chat? Yes, I’m sure your Mend Pet spell is very effective, but allow me to educate you as to the following mantra, “It’s all Hunter loot.” Umm, it ain’t.

I’m just using Hunters as a ‘for example’, I haven’t personally seen a spellpower cloth wearing Hunter that wasn’t just having fun messing with people.

But you get the idea. My Retribution Paladin, for example, loves Strength, Critical Strike, and Stamina. While soloing, I haven’t been turning aside Armor Penetration or Agility (for Crit Chance and Dodge), Hit Rating or Expertise either.

If I were to be prioritizing Intellect and Spellpower as Retribution, I’d expect someone to slap me. Hard.

When I get invited to groups, or if I put myself in a position where I may get invited to a group, I make it my business to know where I’m supposed to be going. Invited to a Molten Core run? Great, I know right where that is, and I know what I have to do to get attuned.

The alt I’m on might not BE attuned, but I know how to get down to BRD area and find out if I am, and know whether or not I’ll need to run into BRD and take the long way.

If I’m invited to The Nexus by a pug, and I’m in Grizzly Hills, I’ll get to a flight master and get started going that way, unless the group needs me to stop and pick up food or reagents somewhere. Sure, others may get there first, but then again, they may not. I shouldn’t expect a summons automatically, should I?

If I’m in a guild run, I’ll ask if I can get a summons if others are already closer, but that just makes sense. They’re already there, and they know me.

I try to bring food for myself. I appreciate and admire those that bring Fish Feasts to instances and raids (Hi Elystia!) but I still haven’t gotten my Fishing to that point yet. I figure, as long as I bring the food I’ll need, at least I’m not depending on the Fish Feasts of friends or strangers.

You get the idea. I expect good players, players I want to hang out with, to care enough to be prepared. To know what they’re doing. To pull their own weight at the minimum, and maybe have a little left over to pull the weight of someone else… but not have to.

People that get distracted by shinies and wander off in the middle of a run or even the middle of a fight, or are too busy chatting to actually, like, play, or get lost on the way to a raid or instance and need to be led by the hand to the portal, aren’t prepared, out of reagents, no food, not repaired, and disconnecting all the time…

/facepalm.

As I said at the beginning, my base expectation, that has not changed since day one, is simply that people play their class the best they know how.

What HAS changed, is my understanding of what that means.

Years ago, I expected people to want to do the best they could, but I knew in my heart that it was difficult to sometimes know what that was for a class. Heck, there’s a reason I started a Feral Druid blog. Years ago, they were poorly understood, especially as tanks.

These days, with the data on the official WoW Forums stickies, websites and discussion forums such as Elitist Jerks, and addons to help with gear choices such as RatingsBuster, it’s become easy for me to get accostumed to the idea that everybody knows how to play.

Maybe someone needs experience to put that knowledge into action. Maybe someone is undergeared for what they are trying to do. Maybe someone is even horsing around and not paying attention, goofing around, having a good time and not really caring.

But as the years have passed, somehow, somewhere, I got the idea that everyone learned how2play their class.

This blindness to reality led to what we had here last night. A baseball bat right between the eyes. 

A grand awakening.

Oh, holy shit.

Last night, I had a little time before bed, so I put my level 75 Retribution Paladin in LFG channel for some regular instances. I was tired, but the role of an axe-swinging, sammich-eating monkey, I felt that was something I could handle.

I was whispered within moments to see if I wanted to join a group to do regular Nexus, followed by Old Kingdom. I made sure to whisper back that I was Ret specced, was that okay?

“Sure”, I was told, “I’m Prot Specced, I’m the tank”. It was a level 72 Paladin.

Okay. I figure this should be a good test of where I’m at. I think I do good DPS, but since all I do is solo, how to judge? I hover at 1200 dps at level 75 as Ret in Grizzly Hills, but folks are hitting 2200 dps+ as new level 80s, so I might just suck.

And it’ll also give me an idea of how much I can go all out, or should throttle back, when playing with a lower level tank. Paladins are supposed to have very good threat generation, so this should be stimulating.

The group that formed was a 72 Protection Paladin, a 71 Hunter, a 79 Resto Druid and me, a level 75 Ret Pally. There was supposed to be a 79 Shadow Priest, but that player bailed out after the group formed.

We entered Nexus, and four-manned the place until thankfully a very skilled level 75 Shadow Priest was able to join us.

This run… this run shook up my preconceived ideas. My expectations have changed. Drastically. Dial up the wayback machine, because it’s 2006 all over again!

I tend to watch what people do around me. Yes, I do. I’m always looking to see how people play their characters in various situations in the hopes that I’ll learn something new and nifty.

Okay, a few things I noticed while doing this run, a run that had no wipes, and therefore must constitute a successful run.

Basically, the Hunter, Pally and Druid combined to form a blistering trifecta of pain.

First, I’ve never before seen a Resto Druid heal an entire instance without using Rejuvenation or Lifebloom. Healing Touch spam all the way. On the tank, and only the tank. Who never rose above 35% health on any fight.

Or a Paladin Tank that doesn’t have a taunt button, doesn’t understand what a kill target is, or how to apply AoE threat. A Paladin that can’t apply AoE threat! How f’ing hard is it to drop Consecration? Holy Shit!

And finally, a Hunter that sends the pet to attack the next group rather than the current group, including bosses, over. And over. And over. And over. The entire bloody be damned instance. Including early boss pulls before we’ve even finished the trash.

  • “Dude, is your pet on Aggressive?”
  • “Does Passive work the same as Aggressive now?”
  • “No, put your pet on Defensive.”
  • “It is.”
  • “Then why is your pet attacking the next group?”
  • “Is your pet on Defensive?”
  • “Yes!”

I swear, that Hunter should have been in a guild called “Surprise Pull”. Except that after the 15th time, it’s no longer a surprise that the next group came running. Or that the boss was pulled as part of a trash pull.

So, you get a Druid that only heals the tank, and doesn’t do that well because instead of HoTs, he’s using Healing Touch exclusively. And the Paladin tank is so squishy that his health hovers around 35% most of the time, never much above that. So the Druid has to keep spamming to keep the tank alive with direct heals, and nobody else gets anything.

I keep running over that like a loose tooth. A Resto Druid that doesn’t use HoTs, and that dies several times and lets others die several times, without ever a Rejuvenation to be seen. Or a Lifebloom, for that matter. A level 79 Restoration specced Druid unable to heal regular Nexus. /shudder.

Anyway, so then you’ve got Mr Surprise Pull the Hunter, that not only pulls groups all the time, and sends the pet into other rooms, but actually is so desperate to out DPS everyone at 71 that he’s going all out on one target, pulls it, and then runs around trying to Ice Trap it before he dies (’cause he’s getting no heals, of course).

What makes me think that he was depserate to out DPS me?

Why, that would be the Damage Meter spam put out all throughout the instance.

After a while, I wanted to say, “Look, I’m at 1200, you’re at 950. It hasn’t changed yet, and it’s not looking like it ever will. You’re level 71 with 950 dps. Deal with it.”

And you’ve got the tank. Omigod, the tank.

I have been tanking a long, long time, and I’ve never seen anything like this guy.

He wasn’t marking anything. “Okay”, I think, “He must figure this is too kiddy skool to bother marking.”

But hey, I keep pulling aggro and then keeping the aggro somehow. He keeps changing his main target every second or two. I can’t tell what he’s targeting as a first kill that I can be safe on DPSing.

So I ask him, after a surprise boss pull, to please use a Skull to mark whoever he wants us to target for our first kill because I keep pulling aggro off him, over and over, and end up eating a mob.

“Sure”, he replies. “np.”

On the next pull, which the Hunter did not start early for a change, the tank put a Skull on one mob out of 3.

The tank pulled, I ran in, and I whacked the Skull. Once.

I got aggro.

Now, by this point I was actually expecting this. That is why I whacked it once, and only once, and then shut off auto-attack. And I stood there, with the tank sitting on top of all three mobs, and watched, doing nothing, as my health dropped, and I did not attack, and the Skull kept hitting me, and never, ever changed aggro to focus on the tank.

After a while of watching my health drop, I got ready. When I went below 10% I was poised to begin healing myself. Now I knew the deal with the Druid; main tank Healing Touch heal spam only. 

Only after the other two mobs were killed did the tank finally take the Skull off of me.

No Consecration, no taunting, and when he marked after that, he himself ignored the mark in favor of attacking other things. Apparently, he thought a Skull meant that was my target, and mine alone. He clearly knew how to do a mark, he put it up without any hesitation.

I began a program of procrastination. I’d target the tank, wait to see who he was attacking, hit only after he did, and watch him like a hawk to see when he switched targets so I could switch too.

When in a target rich environment, like the frequent times when the Hunter would pull the next group, and a few extra, I’d just Consecrate and Blade Flurry and basically go all out with everything that I had that did AoE to try to keep things off the healer and Priest, relying on Lay On Hands, Art of War/Flash of Light and bubble to keep me alive until I could eat food.

I pretty much left the Hunter to fend for himself. Watching him run around getting chased half the instance becamse one of my new favorite things.

At some point the tank started moving and hopping while tanking. He began hopping all over the place, moving and hustling around, twisting and turning. I frequently found myself targeting his current target in the middle of a fight, whacking it once, and then having aggro on that mob for the duration of the rest of the fight. I’d make sure to drag it to the tank, to hold it on the tank, and to not be hitting it as I patiently waited for him to pull it back off me. No dice.

I have to thank them, that run taught me that Pallies really are like cockroaches, damn near unkillable as long as you’re not silenced or stunned. 

Note: I now have a newfound respect and immense sympathy for every melee DPS that has ever had to attack targets when the tank won’t stay still for so long as a second. Holy shit people, if you’re tanking with some melee DPS, stand still unless you’re standing in a poison puddle, acid puddle, gas cloud, or other stationary damage dealing crap! How do you expect the melee to position behind a target, if the tank is dancing the Chubby Checker?

I watched in amazement once as the tank ran in. He dropped Consecrate on the way to the mobs, and then continued running, taking the mobs a good 15 yards past the Consecrate circle. That was the only time I saw him drop Consecrate, and I have to say, I wonder if he stopped using it because he thought it didn’t help. I was gratified to know that he at least had Consecrate somewhere on his button bar.

The capper, the absolute “Are you shitting me”, was when we took the dragon boss at the end.

The tank ran into the dragon chamber, closely followed by the healer. I started to follow, and then thought, “Maybe I should wait… and watch the Hunter. I’m thinking he’ll find a way to screw this up.”

Sure enough, the Hunter runs straight into the dragon chamber… and manages to pull one of the dragonkin patrols along the way. Without apparently noticing, and certainly without slowing down. 

I run in after, and of course the tank and healer are engaged with the dragonkin inside the dragon chamber, and have no idea, as usual, what anyone else in the group is doing. The Hunter feigns. The dragonkin goes for the healer.

I watch. “I’m not getting in the middle this time,” I say to myself. “It’s the last two trash mobs, let’s see them figure this out.”

The Healer begins to go down, as expected, because the tank won’t pull threat or taunt, or even notice. He’s off in some brave new world of discovery.

It’s only then that I realize that while I was back watching the Hunter run into the room trailing a dragonkin behind him, one of the folks already in the chamber, probably the tank, had activated  all the orbs, because we’ve got both the dragonkin AND the dragon boss active at the same time.

Glee!

I drop my aloofness since if the healer goes down we’re gonna wipe on the boss (and did I mention I really didn’t want to pay a repair bill for this crap?) and taunt off of him.

Why yes, Paladins have a ranged taunt. Shocker!

I focus on killing the dragonkin and healing myself, while hopping, and thank the lord for the Shadow Priest, who did awesome focused damage throughout the run… I think on my targets and not on the tanks’.

The dragonkin both go down, and I begin attacking the dragon boss. Yes, I know his name, but I like saying dragon boss. Each time I do, I’m thinking the Erfworld “dwagon”.

Anyway, what I mean is, I try to attack the dwagon boss. I mean dragon.

See, the tank, that glorious Paladin tank, is not hopping in one place and tanking the dragon.

He’s not even swiveling from side to side doing the electric slide.

No, the Paladin tank is running around at full speed, back to the dragon, sometimes spinning around to face it and keeps going that way, to and fro, hither and yon, with no rhyme nor reason. Sometimes he runs through the dragon to come out the other side and keeps going. Just complete chaos.

I have never, ever seen a tank run around like complete bugnuts crazy on the last boss in Nexus before. That was something to see, boy howdy.

I’d also never known that that dragon boss tail swipe was a knockback.

Why?

BECAUSE I’D NEVER SEEN ANYONE REPEATEDLY END UP AT THE DRAGON’S TAIL BECAUSE THE TANK KEEPS RUNNING AROUND BEFORE!!!

Now, maybe this style of tanking is something that other guilds do. I don’t know. I checked the WoW Armory for my character statistics, and across my characters I’ve only done Nexus on Heroic about 50 times. So I might have missed something, and this guy knew the neat special way to do the run.

Somehow, though, since after jumping down from the ice tunnel after the rock giant boss he took a right heading back into the mobs instead of a left toward the dragon, I don’t think so.

This, as I said, was a successful run. We never, quite, fully wiped.

But wait, it gets better!

Once the dragon was dead, the funniest thing ever happened!

The tank said, “Great run folks. Now on to Old Kingdom!”

Umm… no. OMIGOD no freaking way!

Wow.

I can feel my expectations recalibrating themselves… lowering… returning to 2006 levels.

Settling, settling… there!

Okay, now I am prepared for next time. No more pesky unrealistic expectations to get in the way!

66 Responses to “It hurt so bad, and that’s not good”
  1. Arkaneena says:

    Great post. I had exactly the opposite happen to me yesterday. I found 2 decent DK tanks, 2!!! I don’t think wonders will ever cease. I added a couple of great bear tanks to my friends list, all in all very good. I have yet to find a bad bear tank, they are all awesome. Bad DKs don’t get me started, bad pallies it happens, bad warriors sure, bad bear tanks I think that is a myth. I need to level my NE as a bear maybe then I will enjoy tanking instead of healing.

    Your story reminds me though that I as a pally tank stink. However I know this. It is my offspec, because my guild demanded it. I heal the tank as a pally. That is my job. I have no clue how to mark, and I didn’t start tanking until I had already done all of Naxx and had mostly heroic healing gear. I couldn’t mark a target if you paid me enough to gear up my alts through the AH in blues, at every level. But given the choice between a ungeared tank who wasn’t hit capped, and myself, I offered to tank Nexus for a pug. Now I signed in as a healer mind you.

    It went fine, if a little slow, but I warned them that it might be that way. I also killed almost all the mobs, and tried not to stress a new 80 pally healer, so no one gets feared into anything. We didn’t wipe once, but the Ulduar geared rogue was convinced I wasn’t pulling fast enough. The healer and the shaman, and the mage all thought it was fine. The rogue yells at me to quit pulling unnecessary mobs, right cause non-hit-capped players never get feared. They all had over 1k dps, and the rogue had over 3.4k. Now this rogue goomba put the group together, and yells at me to tank faster. I was tempted to let him tank, but I think rogues are kinda squishy for that.

    At this point the shaman whispers, “I already put stupidsoandso on ignore, you are doing fine. But you might want to turn on RF so I don’t pull aggro off of you.” So I /facepalmed and did it. That is helpful advice from an obvious alt to someone who admits cluelessness. Thanks girlfriend, now that is helpful. So I continue while trying to pick up the pace a smidge. The rogue keeps yelling faster, faster. But we got through it, everyone got shiny loot. I passed on everything, because I don’t need anything out of there, even on heroic, (though I will take an orb thank you very much.)

    My point is I may start tanking the easier heroic instances, “very, very slowly. And by slow I mean F–ing slow.” But at least I will try. I know how to consecrate, turn on RF, and rotation. But I still don’t know how to mark a target, and hotkeys what are those? Is that like how I hold down alt harder when I am healing with clique so my heal lands faster.

    Wait what, that doesn’t work. No stoppit. Really?

    So it isn’t just the multi level alts, it is also those forced to dual spec who didn’t wanna, because we put the guild first. Course I also have no delusions of grandeur either, so it happens.
    .-= Arkaneena´s last blog ..Paladin Instance Healing by difficulty Trial of the Champion =-.

  2. Jeff says:

    As a tank, I feel your pain, the worst offenders are the ones who behave like that when I am on my (not as well geared/enchanted) DPS off spec. I bite my tongue and switch to just mouse and game pad to make sure I don’t type something like “Are you freaking kidding me? Tanks take damage and hold aggro you ‘tard, stand still and beat on it. Help us help you for dog’s sake!” And that is the work safe version.

    Tanking requires focus and the ability to stand and deliver when every one else is loosing their heads. If you can’t do that don’t tank. Jeez, if you are the pally from this story, FFS, send me a mail or something and I’ll give the the http://www.tankspot.com link, oh wait there it is, read and learn, read AND learn.

  3. James says:

    Oh, there are bad bear tanks out there, guaranteed. I’m one. I tried to tank a few times, but was (I think) the worst ever. Not that I wasn’t really trying hard, too. I mean, I read the web sites, I had decent gear, I actually thought about how to do it. I just couldn’t tank. I couldn’t keep track of what baddie was attacking which goodie. Very hard to do, you know, with all those things running around on the computer screen. My son laughed at me, I was that bad.

    Now I just heal. I’m not very good at that, either, to be honest, but I think I’m better at that than at tanking. I think.

  4. ootek says:

    had a similar experience myself. at 70 i tried (tree) healing UK. the tank was a lvl 75 warrior. didn’t know what thunderclap was. or charge. made every pull with his gun. we wiped more than once before clearing the dragon stables. i quit. ’cause time is money, friend. and that was the last time i healed. (except one ToC run). i’d rather tank and take my chances with bad dps/heals.

    i also have a ret/prot pally. i read one similar suggestion, but for me this is easier(est). i have a keybound macro when i dps. it’s goes like this:

    /assist (tank’s name)

    i don’t care if the tank marks anything or not.

    one more gripe. if you are ranged dps and something hits you in the face, DON’T ATTACK IT! fade, feign death, ice block or heaven forbid! run TOWARDS the tank! ’cause when i taunt the mob and you continue to hit it, you’re going down. and your dps is going down with you.

  5. Kia Feathers says:

    Arkaneena, I hear you, sister. I would like to know where this pervasive “we need to run this heroic in less than seven minutes, because I turn back into a pumpkin at midnight” mindset came from. Okay, I understand that Wrath has been out almost a year and that everybody’s bored with content because we’ve all run the Nexus a hundred fifty thousand times and most of the time all anybody is interested in is the emblems at the end. But me, most of the time I much prefer a slower run to a faster one. Given the options, I want the chance to drink when my mana’s low, so that I don’t need to nerf my dps into the ground by running in Viper. I’d rather make sure that people tanking who aren’t used to it pull EXACTLY the way that they want to and that the healer doesn’t go OOM and have to stand there helplessly waving their arms and praying to Elune that the tank doesn’t die before the dps can finish off the boss.

    I guess my mentality is just screwed up. I figure if I sit down to run heroics, I’ve dedicated the time. I don’t really care if it takes an hour and a half to run Heroic UP, because that’s what I logged on to do. Run it slow! Make sure people know what’s going on! Enjoy the ride, people!

    However, on the other hand, I suppose if you get in a PUG like our friend BBB, your run is always gonna be like pulling off a Band-Aid – it hurts if you rip it off fast and it hurts just as much and for longer if it’s slow.
    .-= Kia Feathers´s last blog ..In Which Kia Gets Her Groove On =-.

  6. ootek says:

    another suggestion if i may.

    if you are dps, please just dps. unless I(the tank) ask you to do something else. if you try to “help” by pulling a mob off the healer/squishy, you probably just wasted my taunt. that goes double for violet hold and the 4 mobs that come out of that one freaking portal and go opposite directions. (tanks, you know which one i’m referring to). I will pick up the “one that got away”. please, please, do not attack the mob that i just taunted from 20 yds away.
    and remember:

    /assist (tank’s name)

    it’s simple. it’s easy. it’s one button. try it, your tank will like it.

  7. Shelly says:

    @Akiosama I would also like to put with this point: dont /fail a person because they dont have the same gear/dps as you. I was told i was a /fail dps because my dps was only 1800 in a heroic, on an alt character of mine, with a bunch of overgeared people. It was nice of them to comment on “carrying me through”, a heroic for the xp, and loot, oh, wait, level 80’s dont get xp, and um, no loot dropped that i was interested in. wtf?? it was an original heroic, not totc.

    Moral? as long as that dps is doing their job and not causing problems for others (pulling, dying, afking, blah blah) then keep your eyes off the damn meters because they are pulling their weight, they just dont have the gear to pull weight like you are.

  8. Sarabian says:

    I am a tankadin and I have no clue whatsoever how he was able to fail to gain threat on anything. My rotation not only includes the consecrate he failed at using, but also Hammer of the Righteous that hits multiple mobs. Even just pulling with Avenger’s Shield gets instant threat that should keep things glued to him for at least a few seconds. Holy cow! Epic fail doesn’t even begin to describe that one.

    And good advice to anyone at all that gets smacked by something when the tankadin is very occupied: If you bring it to us and stand in the consecrate for even 2 seconds, that almost always gets threat back where it belongs. If it doesn’t, it brings it to a place where the tankadin can easily see and taunt it. Warrior tanks are very similar in that a single thunderclap is usually enough to get it’s attention back to where it should be. I don’t have a DK tank or bear tank so can’t say about them so well, but I’m certain things are similar. I do know that NOT HITTING IT is always a brilliant idea.

    Great article, BBB.

  9. Mannyac says:

    Ok, I don’t even play anymore an I thought that was pretty damn funny.

  10. Jack says:

    @Sarabian
    On my Death Knight, I used Howling Blast similarly to how I used Thunderclap on my Warrior. Blood Boil works too. Death and Decay seems like it would work, but I found it substituted better as my Challenging Shout.

    I assume Swipe = Bear-Thunderclap.

  11. poka says:

    “BECAUSE I’D NEVER SEEN ANYONE REPEATEDLY END UP AT THE DRAGON’S TAIL BECAUSE THE TANK KEEPS RUNNING AROUND BEFORE!!!”

    Oh this is exactly like one tank I healed right there. I was healing on my Shaman and keep jumping up and down in one place having problems as is to cast heals. And he starts pulling the dragon accross the room and Melee get kicked by the tail and he keeps dragging. I try to not let anyone die while typing “don’t move it” into party chat getting a bit panic-y. So he keeps dragging and I find my caps lock and YELL in party chat. Just jump don’t drag. Nothing. DPS goes down. I’m dead, he dies. We run from the cemetery to the entrance. And then he writes in party chat: “If you can’t heal this simple instance, that is your problem not mine.” That’s when I left the group and went offline to vent.

  12. Eberron of Boulderfist says:

    @Atheia

    That “Defense” guy is going to be *pissed* when Cataclysm comes out…

  13. Jack says:

    In defense of moving during the Keristraza fight . . . well, let me start by saying I only tried to tank it once by moving, got yelled at by the two hunters in our group and from that point on have tanked it jumping in place . . . however . . . however, however, however . . .

    I recently ran it with a buddy of mine whom I respect greatly as a tank who kited Kerstraza in a slow walk back and forth. The group was him tanking, me healing, a mage friend of ours, and two other dps pugged in . . . a feral cat and a DK. Everyone’s dps stayed about as high as it had been the whole instance. Healing was easy. The fight took, maybe, 3-4 minutes. I never even had to innervate. No problems.

    And yet the DK still felt compelled to comment, “you should just jump up & down when you tank that instead of moving around.”

    To which my friend responded, “Oh, habit. Keeps pets alive.”

    I’d never considered that. I mean, after the first time I tanked it, I was astounded that the hunters, ranged dps, right? were so concerned about me moving around a little bit . . . and I am even more astounded now that it has dawned on me that my friend is right; pets don’t jump in place!

    Granted, we didn’t have any pets in our group (not even a ghoul), so it really wasn’t necessary. But neither do I think it’s necessarily a bad habit to be in.

  14. Akiosama says:

    @Shelly – You’re right on that point. I don’t tend to think I’m pulling people, even when I’m running significantly more DPS than they might be. Your example, 1800 DPS on a Heroic is fine… I wouldn’t say squat on that – it’s more than appropriate DPS for a Heroic instance. And unless it’s getting the group killed, I don’t complain about the amount of DPS anyone’s putting out. I will get frustrated if there are aggro problems, however. And in any case, I will never SAY that I am carrying someone.

    That being said, I do expect to see a certain minimum level of DPS when I go into Heroics (usually around 1400 DPS), since that’s what was expected of me when I was first brought in to DPS Heroics. I don’t think that number is unusually high in the game as it is today. But what I really expect DPS to do is their job – to hit the targets in the right order, hit them intelligently (watching aggro AND using utility abilities appropriately and to the best of one’s ability), and then as hard as capable – in that order.

    Where I start to get wary is when I see someone who IS geared decently, who still puts up significantly worse numbers than expected, or is very inconsistent in performance. One warrior I run with regularly has a DPS line that would make the most hardcore rollercoaster junkie sick, as it goes up and down so much between fights. One trash fight it might be around 4500, the next around 1800 (with generally the same mob composition). Whereas, I might on those same fights run a consistent 3600 DPS, and have more DPS and damage overall. Further, when his DPS was up, he was pulling aggro like crazy.

    Truth be told, I’m not out there to COMPETE on the meters. I don’t put that much stock in it for success. However, I do see it as a tool to see if there might be something that needs tweaking. That same warrior, a few weeks ago, had better gear than I had at that same time – almost fully Conquest geared out, but there was a consistent 1200 DPS difference in our performances on raid (I’d run about 3000, while he’d run 1800 in Naxx25). The fact that it wasn’t a gear issue, even initially, was pretty clear to me, and to some of the others in our regular group, but that warrior’s mentality was “If I can just get better gear, the numbers will go up.” It wasn’t until he finally respecced and tuned his regular rotation that his numbers went up to the upper 2000s to lower 3000s during raid.

    I don’t /fail people for gear – with the caveat that it’s clear that the gear and DPS output are relatively appropriate for the area. I’d probably run one Heroic instance, and only one, with someone who put out only 600 DPS for any reason – because 600 DPS is really not appropriate for Heroic instances. I’d probably continue to run if that number was closer to 1000-1200 DPS, if it seemed like it was a matter of simply gear, and that the rest of the expecations were in order. I’d probably be back to one, if I saw someone who was Naxx/Ulduar/ToC geared and only putting out 1600 DPS in the same run, despite the fact that 1600>1200.

    It’s about the perception of performance. If I can explain to myself why a person might have lower numbers, and it doesn’t appear to be about the player, then I will be more likely to help. Gear is something that can be easily fixed and has a great rate of improvement in performance, for a decent player. Gear, generally speaking, does not make a weaker player decent – something else must also be done to improve (respeccing, re-rotating, or just plain out practicing the current stuff).

    In short – as a DPS, do your job intelligently, and try to make sure that you’re geared for the content you’re attempting (or, if slightly undergeared that your performance can make up for it, because it can – a slightly lesser geared player CAN outdo a higher gear player sometimes, if the lesser geared player plays smarter), and let the group leader know if you are undergeared and let them make a decision based on full disclosure. Don’t surprise the group during the run – that’s not fair to them, either.

    But most of all, play smart. Try not to autopilot anything. Even higher geared players die when on autopilot to stupid stuff – don’t do that to your group.

    My 2 yen,

    Akiosama
    .-= Akiosama´s last blog ..What’s in a (Guild) Name? =-.

  15. Adonik says:

    You clearly have more patience than most. I have a good deal myself, but I imagine I would’ve said something or bowed out of the group.

  16. Lily says:

    I would not have stayed. But I have scared quite a few people in my day too – maybe I shouldn’t judge. It’s not that I don’t know my class, or know how to tank – but that heroics have become so boring that I feel it is my obligation, as the tank, to wake up the raid.

    Pulling when the healer is AFK’ed? Been there.

    Pulling an entire room at once, hoping like crazy that my cooldowns and the healer can keep me alive? Yup.

    I can, and for lesser geared groups, have, done normal pulls. But I love to challenge people, including myself, and discover just how much we can handle in a pinch. My healer in a heroic Nexus D/c’ed once after the first boss. I just stated in group “healers are optional, right?” and we did several trash pulls and the mage boss. Me and the Ret pally healed. No one died. We didn’t finish because the healer never returned – but the thrill of doing a heroic boss that was actually hard for a change, was exciting. Some people get scared off by that – yet others love it.

    BTW, thanks for the PUG checker. I looked myself up on that, and I think it is pretty cool. Can help to see what experience people have had.

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