If I’m going to contemplate changes to tank mechanics, I’d like to be honest for a moment.

I’d like to really present my dream.

I’d like to move away from avoidance. I would like to move away from Dodge.

I am a big freaking bear butt Druid. My butt is large and in charge.

The idea that my butt is Dodging attacks with fast moving is ridonkulous.

I would like to move towards mitigation.

But I want control over balancing mitigation with health and avoidance.

I want a system where physical and magic mitigation are tied to the same source, and that there are variables I can control to increase my mitigation at the cost of health or avoidance.

As an example, a pure example from my dreaming.

I’d like a percentage of armor value to apply to magic mitigation.

I’d like enchants and gems that provide armor value.

I’d like the gem cuts and enchants to be valuable enough to compare with the benefits of other sources of damage prevention, such as Agility and Defense Rating and Dodge Rating and Stamina. They do not need to be affected by the multiplier, because every tanking class could use them to help seize control of their own tanking destiny.

NOW… let’s go back over my dreaming. “It can’t be armor, you fool!” I hear you cry.

That’s fine.

As we remove Block and Defense, let’s call it something other than armor that we can use, shall we?

Let’s call it Damage Reduction.

Let’s have Damage Reduction apply to both magic and physical damage, and if you wish the formula can vary based on class, exactly the way it does right now for Dodge from Agility, and the amount of physical damage reduction per point of DR can be at a different value than magic damage reduction per point of DR.

And make the gem cuts and enchants be called Damage Reduction, and allow us to decide, do we want more Stamina, or do we want to reduce overall damage by adding DR?

It is my dream, it is not necessarily yours in any way.

But I yearn for a change, where I have three aspects of survivability… mitigation, avoidance and health.

And I want a means to control, or tweak, all three aspects. If I’m weak in any one, I’d like to balance it back in line with the other two.

I think that removing Defense Skill and Block, reducing the avoidance benefit of stats contributing to Dodge or Parry, if you add a Damage Reduction I wouldn’t feel you were making things overly confusing.

I think, quite the contrary, it would make more sense. We know we can add Agility, Defense Rating, Stamina… why not DR?

I don’t want to have a big dancing bear butt Dodging all those attacks. I want a big bear butt that absorbs them all with that nice, hibernating fatty layer.

I’d also love a big bear snack, that after eating gives a Damage Reduction buff for 30 minutes, as long as I’m dreaming.

15 Responses to “A dream for tank mechanic changes”
  1. Sparky says:

    Amen. Let us have a general damage reduction – or seperate damage reductions for magic and armour (maybe have them both linked to the same couple of stats – say agi and stamina). Let us go back to what bears always WERE – mitigators. We had armour of the gods and more health than you could dream of. That was druid tanking. I loved it in TBC – I had nearly 40k armour and vast amounts of health (as an aside on that – have you seen the top heals some healers can easily put out these days without stacking spell power? It’s ludicrous – why are healers healing so much compared to tank health?)

    Then Blizzard can have bosses that do steady damage rather than them having to hit so hard they can make up for 80% of their hits missing entirely. It means not having bosses that could accidentally 2 shot a tank if luck is bad. It means not having to have kludgy “not-quite-fixes” like Chill of the Throne

    I want avoidance to be a bonus. I want to say “yay, I avoided a third of all attacks there, that’s cool.” I don’t want a mental image of a bear or a plate wearing paladin dancing around like a Ninja on Speed agilely dodging and weaving around the enemy’s attacks. I don’t want to say “huh I have to avoid 60% of incoming attacks or I’m dead.” I don’t want avoidance to be my base surivial ability. It’s too random. It”s too unsure. It’s too luck based

  2. Ratshag says:

    The idea that Windshadow’s big bear butt can get out of the way of things much more quickly and easily that Kinnavieve’s dainty human butt do seem pretty preposterous.
    .-= Ratshag´s last blog ..Gone Fishin’ =-.

  3. Morphster of Aggramar says:

    Hmm, I like it! Props on the Bolt quote by the way. I watched it for the first time with my twins the other day and it was funnier than I expected.

  4. Llirt says:

    Agreed! dodging is ludicrous and agility is plaid! I would rather see str/sta be our stats than agi/sta. No way you can miss that butt, but I probably won’t feel it, so that’s ok!

  5. kaozz says:

    “Large and in charge” lol. You always crack me up. I just wish there were not so many stats to focus on, where you could focus on whats important and not spread them so thin at times. Dream on, right? I’m so weary from all the stats that have been added since “vanilla” WoW.
    .-= kaozz´s last blog ..Revisiting Everquest 2 (MMO) =-.

  6. Steevee says:

    KUDOS BBB! Awesome idea.

  7. Savvy-Savvage says:

    [Supernatural Luster] – When above 35% health, the druid’s coat takes on a luster that defuses incoming direct damage spells This reduces damage taken by 1/10, 1/5, 1/2 of the amount of physical mitigation granted by their armor. This also creates a damaging cloud that deals 5/10/15% of the spells damage to all enemies over 10 seconds.

    Also, infected wounds should proc passively from thorns and not off of those other active abilities!

    Ever think of making a haste set for more maul damage on boss fights? I get like 52% of my damage from maul so I’m thinking 20% haste would be approximately 10% more threat. I’m sure I”m missing something.

  8. thebitterfig says:

    lemme get this straight – a new rating akin to dodge and parry and haste that, based on its own level and diminishing returns, simply reduces damage taken? It makes a good deal of sense. a tank will have to determine “do i gem for stamina or gem for damage reduction?” of course, this will rely heavily on calcs and spreadsheets to inform you exactly when DR is better than Stam. of course, it’d have to be less effective against player damage than resilience. or perhaps of the same effectiveness, but since it doesn’t reduce critical hits or critical hit effect it would be less valuable to pvpers.

    ///

    @ Savvy-Savvage = you’re probably right that haste can be a really effective threat stat. where the caveat comes in is that it does nothing for your mitigation, unlike crit which helps both threat and mitigation. well, i suppose that since hasted mauls will crit more frequently, it could help mitigation a little. additionally, all the fancy tank warriors will have block value sets and avoidance sets and effective health sets, so there might be room for it.

  9. Sarcon says:

    Amen. Someone needs to send this Idea to the devs

  10. Malphailuron says:

    I would very much like to see something like this. But I think it needs to be more active than simply gearing, or achieving some synergy between talents and stats. Right now bears only really have four active defensive abilities—Survival Instincts, Frenzied Regen, Barkskin, and Demoralizing Roar—plus trinkets, pots, and maybe Lifeblood. Other classes aren’t much better.

    The “Survival” part of tanking is largely passively determined by what gear you’re wearing, punctuated by cooldowns for taking spikes of damage or for emergencies. Just about everything else is spamming your threat-generating abilities. I’d like to see a shift towards actively determining whether all-or-nothing avoidance, mana-efficient die-slowly mitigation, raw hp, or out-and-out threat generation are important from moment to moment in the fight. More nuanced gear choices to emphasize one or another aspect of survival or threat generation would be nice.

    Tanking is getting a bit boring, especially with the lack of CC. I’d love a more active, fun tanking experience. Not just swipe and maul spam.

  11. Mann says:

    What you’ve posted there is also every healer’s third wet dream. The first time this expansion that I thought dodge was annoying was when I was crapping my pants healing the tanks on patchwerk. The burst damage and how unpredictable it was made me want to ring the necks of the salivating dps. “Oh boy, I can’t wait til we get to patchwerk!”

    The other previous dreams would be infinite mana and light speed haste.

    To go along with this playful glee, I think Blizzard should change it so that bears must tank facing the opposite direction. They can be crit and cannot parry/dodge/block from a front and only when they’ve pivoted around. I don’t know how their moves would work then but its just a thought. :P
    .-= Mann´s last blog ..Design 01: Slash Roll, my beloved WoW guild =-.

  12. Aerkhen says:

    How about a new tanking mitigation stat called “Willpower” to signify the force of will it would take to endure pain from physical damage or resist magical harm?

    Potential aspects of the stat to make it balance-able:
    – Decreases magic damage and physical damage in an uneven ratio — more mitigation for magic vs. physical would make it a stat you would have to balance with armor, parry, block, dodge.
    – In order to maintain unique tanking roles for classes, each tanking class could be talented for Willpower differently. While base Willpower would be a static, always-on mitigation stat, it’s dynamic function could be varied, i.e.:
    – Ferals – “Savage Will” – each point of damage you take generates a temporary (potentially stacking) buff increasing your Willpower by a percentage of that damage. Would therefore mitigate more strongly vs. magic users.
    – Death Knights – “Grave Resolve” – in keeping with DK design, a cooldown ability with a spike to Willpower, perhaps one that gradually decreases after applied.
    – Warriors – “Iron Will” – Reverses the magic and physical mitigation of Willpower temporarily.
    – Paladins – “Ascetic’s Restraint” – Decrease spellpower to increase willpower.
    – Classes could generate willpower based on different statistics, in order to maintain consistent gear itemization. Similar to Agi vs. Crit Rating items could have attributes that increase Willpower directly or indirectly. Since Blizzard has been working to make itemization less specialized, this might not show up often on Leather gear, but it would also allow them the option of making a piece of non-Tier gear clearly a tank-optimized piece.

    Clearly, not a very refined notion, but one I think could work with some consideration.

    ~Aerkhen
    (Burning Blade)

  13. Aerkhen says:

    PS – since I can’t edit, could a mod please fix the use of the contraction “it’s” instead of the possessive “its” in my post? Nothing like having your first comment make you look like an idiot… >.<

  14. Skip Cocoa says:

    It’s always been a point of frustration for me as I’ve leveled that HP is really the meaningful defense. Armor is great, right until you meet your first caster. You’d better take them down fast, or out you go. Bamf! And for months of my newbness, I thought I was doing something wrong. I’d hover my mouse over my resistances, and the tooltip reminded me, in quite the friendly fashion, that my resistances were “poor”, and continued to tell me so for the life of my leveling. Enemies were resisting my spells. My pet had lots of resistances. It was a long time before I’d stopped to think this was an intended dynamic, simply because the game was so potently thrusting in my face the numbers I couldn’t figure out how to elevate to the rest of the non-player world.

    It’s really not unheard of that armor would stop non-physical damage. A shield stopping a fireball? Logical! And it’s commonly practiced in several other games, with only a hand full of abilities actually penetrating or ignoring armor. WoW seems more and more the odd-man out compared to my other experiences. I’ve even seen dodge used as mitigation instead of avoidance, which makes it more of a flavorful armor I guess. I mean, Agility is boosting our armor, right? Armor must, in itself, take into account some abstract idea of avoidance. I’d wager the flavor argument is really lost entirely on either end of the spectrum.
    .-= Skip Cocoa´s last blog ..The MBTY Bus is Comin’, and Everybody’s Jumpin’… =-.

  15. ryanocerous says:

    I’ve been giving this some thought (particularly poignant given an exchange I had with a shaman “healer” who reported I’d stacked too much stamina and needed more agility… OK… 48k health buffed is overkill for a heroic (as is 41% dodge) but when you run into a caster boss, you’ll want my furry butt around). What if dodge ability created “glancing blows”? Every attack still _hits_ you… It just hits you for less because you were able to move mostly out of the way. It’s more plausible than completely dodging some attacks completely but getting hit dead on by others.

    So a druid with 41% dodge could get hit with an attack that would do 10,000 damage but dodge 41% of the damage. That would leave you with 5,900 damage which is then mitigated by armor… At 65% physical damage mitigation, that would be 2065. So you could mitigate 80% of incoming damage pretty easily but not avoid it altogether. Then Blizzard could make some bosses that really, really, really hit hard without relying on the RNG to see you through an encounter. You could reasonably make bosses that hit for 150k base damage (about 120k on cloth) and expect a tank to survive it. Or have a shortened swing timer but they “only” hit for 100k base damage.

    And for the RNG… Just give bears a form of parry. OK… Maybe that’s wishful thinking.

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