Ah, the rush of joy from the first few weeks of the new LFG!

How quickly it turns sour in the face of reality… or in this case, asshats.

Don’t get me wrong, I still love it, but I know my experiences are starting to mirror those Das Panzercow shared yesterday.

I’ve mostly been grouping with Windshadow the Druid, and that had given me a skewed perspective.

The very first couple days of 3.3, sure I did some LFG on my Paladin as DPS, but everyone and their little brother was online trying it out then.

Now, things have matured, Emblems have been won, and the self-centered attitudes of so many people are starting to come out, like stink rising off of… well, you know.

My Druid is dual-specced as Tank and Healer.

As a Tank and Healer both, I had long experience in running all Heroics that had been out successfully, frequently with guild members that had new alts. With the new LFG channel, all that happened was that in the pugs, most often there would be at least one raider that had better gear than I was used to seeing, so the runs, if anything, got faster.

Queueing up for LFG, as a Healer, I generally saw an instance pop in under two minutes, if that long. As a tank, it takes about 1 millisecond.

The longer queues would come when Cassie and I wanted to play together, and we’d group and join as Healer/DPS combo. Sometimes, it would take as long as five minutes.

Awww. Yep, I said I had a skewed perspective, right?

Switch to my Hunter. I was looking, and saw that my Hunter had 29 Conquest Emblems, and nothing at all worth buying from Conquest or Valor. Nada.

BUT… with just a few random Heroics, I could get enough Triumph to downgrade everything into an Heirloom Trinket. Still don’t have two of both Heirloom Trinkets, so hey! Cool! I could get there with just three or four random Heroics!

Yeah… welcome to the world of solo DPS queued for LFG. 15 minute to 25 minute wait times.

Damn, was I spoiled on my Druid.

So, now I can see first hand that, yes, it’s all much, much better than before, but it’s certainly not responsive equally to all roles. And really, how could it be?

If you’ll recall, my prediction prior to 3.3 was that solo DPS would be able to get a group far faster, but I never imagined that 20 minutes would seem long. I stated that I’d just be delighted if I could get a group without being online for two hours in the channel, and hell yes, that wish has been fulfilled.

I’m seeing more than just differing wait times, though. I’m seeing, as I said above, a rapid increase in asshattery. Or maybe laziness.

We could debate the RNG factor affecting what instances we get, and our suspicions that Blizzard has, ahem, weighted some to crop up more than others. But I’m sure it’s not the case. Ahem.

I’ll just throw my paranoia into the ring by saying I’ve had Utgardt Pinnacle, Halls of Lightning, Halls of Stone and OMG Oculus a LOT more often than anything else. And I still haven’t seen Culling of Strat, one of my favorites.

That’s not actually a complaint, since I like Lightning, Pinnacle and Stone. It’s just an observation, when Cassie and I see the loading screen, I believe her direct quote these days can be counted as being, “What, are you kidding me, Halls of Stone AGAIN?!?”

I tried to do my Hunter in LFG a couple days ago… I had Oculus for my first of the day, and as soon as the Tank zoned in to see where we were, he left party. Within 5 minutes of waiting for another tank, the party fell apart.

So I went and did other things.

Later that day, I went into LFG again. After my 20 minute wait, I got… Oculus again.

The new tank left the group again.

Got Azjol-Nerub after that. Two DPS both declined the group without even seeing what the instance was going to be, and when they got replaced, one of those DPS and the Tank left as soon as we zoned in.

Yes, in Azjol Nerub.

A Death Knight switched to tank spec, we re-joined LFG, got another DPS… and THAT DPS left group as soon as entering the instance. After that a Ret Pally came in and, OMG, stayed and we could run the place.

As we ran, the Tank and the Healer (a Shaman) took turns sniping bitchily at each other. The Healer kicked things off by being snarky at the tank’s gear, the tank got defensive in reply by playing the “I quit WoW for a year and only just got back so that’s why my gear sucks” card, then the Healer responded with questions concerning noobness about the tanks’s skill after so long away, then the tank would comment that at least he could tank and chew gum at the same time, etc etc ad nauseaum.

The whole run, two different people from two different servers entirely, bitching at each other. For No. Apparent. Reason.

The run lasted about 12 minutes from first pull to dead Anub. Okay, maybe it was longer, but that was a seriously fast speed run, everyone had over 3k DPS, including the tank… we even accidentally pulled Hadronox before he web wrapped the stairs because the tank didn’t know any better, and we still pulled it off.

Yeah, what the hell are these two crackheads bitching about? I have no idea.

But come on.

This trend, of tanks in particular leaving the party and taking the deserter debuff if the Instance is not to their liking, is happening with an ever accelerating pace.

Welcome to the world of primadonna rockstar tanks that think that the world really does revolve around them.

Nothing in the game is serving to disabuse them of that notion, anymore. Want a run as a tank? You can get one whenever the whim strikes. Don’t like what you get? Why not leave, there’s always another one whenever the fancy takes you.

A solo DPS trying to get a group in good faith, willing to stick out a run, will wait from 10 to 20 minutes after he joins LFG.

A tank looking for a quick and easy run can get an instance immediately, see what it is, get pissy, “Aw, AN again?” and leave group, and by the time their deserter debuff times out, that DPS is just getting his first group.

I was playing with PetEmote in Dalaran yesterday, PetEmote has been updated for Patch 3.2 and I configured mine for Voytek the Spirit Bear, and while testing my emotes, I saw this said in Trade Chat:

“Enjoy the runs in LFG while you can, noobs, as soon as all the Tanks get the last of the Triumph and Frost they want, and the new bosses are unlocked in Icecrown, you’re never gonna see another tank again. They’ll be raiding with their guilds and getting Frost and you’ll be shit out of luck.”

Well, I guess all tanks raid then, right?

Because guilds need SO MANY tanks, that everyone that wants to tank gets to.

Oh, wait… raiding guilds only need two, MAYBE three tanks in a 25 person raid.

Well, I’m sure that out of 25 people, only two or three ever really want to raid anything. I’m sure.

What happens when there is a scarcity of a commodity, and there are tangible benefits to be derived from providing that commodity?

Someone identifies it and fills the need.

In this case, my simple prediction is that as tanks continue to be scarce, more people seeing long wait times as DPS will dual spec if possible, and start gearing up a tank spec. Then they will expoit the fact that tanks get instant groups, and run to their heart’s content.

Please keep in mind, I never said they’d be GOOD tanks. :)

As was pointed out by Panzercow, the new world order as far as most groups go, is zerg the content, ignore Crowd Control, and blame the Healer if someone dies.

I did a random last night with Cassie, I was healing, and we got Heroic ToC.

The tank was a Bear tank, and we had the Hunter, Rogue and Mage.

The Bear tank stood in the poison puddle. Never moved.

I’m healing my butt off, since I feel it is my job NOT to just keep everyone alive, but instead to keep everyone at 100%. If a single Health bar dips, I get pissed. Lose health on ME, will you! We’ll just see about that.

On a related note, I hate Warlocks. There you are, keeping everyone alive fighting the trash after Ick in Heroic Pit of Saron, the Flamewraiths are AoEing everyone and porting and the tank isn’t on them, they’re not getting interrupted, and why the hell is it that one bastards’ health keeps plummeting like a stone?

Why, the Warlock is Life Tapping to get mana back as he struggles to be leet DPS, of course. While standing in the AoE fire. That prick.

Anyway, so Heroic ToC, Bear tank is standing unmoving in the puddle of poison, just standing there. Cassie is melee DPS and she’s not able to both get on the mobs AND avoid standing in the puddle. Cassie is bitching to me about the noob tank that is too stupid to get out of the green bloody-be-damned fire, and I’m agreeing “yes dear” as I’m actually reduced to spamming Nourish on the tank to keep him alive.

The fight is over, nobody died, loot box appears.

The Bear tank asks how he’s doing tanking.

I do a /inspect, out of curiosity. His gear is a pretty solid mix of iLevel 200 epics and a few Triumph items right off my list. A Darkmoon Card: Berserking trinket seems an odd choice, but really, not bad. Certainly more than adequate for Heroic ToC.

Out of politeness, I accentuate the positive, and mention that he held aggro very well.

I am having a hard time thinking of how to politely phrase the concept, “Next time you might want to get your furry butt out of the green puddles so DPS can get it stuck in” when he says, and I kid you not…

“Oh good. And great heals! I knew you were a great healer when I saw I’d been standing in the poison and I didn’t have to move because my health wasn’t going down.”

…..

Way to encourage them, Bear. Nicely done. Dumbass.

If I’d let him die, or even let his health hover towards the low end, maybe he would have been inspired to work more on his mobility next time, or pop his cooldowns.

But no, I kept him alive, and reinforced the idea that you can brute force things, and it’s okay. Zerg, zerg, zerg.

Sigh.

Please, if you have never tanked before and want to step forward and join the ranks of the new tanks, please.

Do so. Do so without regret, and without fear.

But here are some tips. Serious tips, not snarky ones.

First, if you CAN gear up from going as a different spec on LFG in Heroic, by all means do so. There is no shame in running as DPS or Heals, and rolling on tanking offset gear and using Triumph Emblems to buy tanking goodies.

Dechion, I’m talking to you. :)

Whatever you choose to do, when you first set out to tank, use LFG to select normal early instances, such as Nexus, Utgardt Keep, Drak’theron Keep, Gundrak and Azjol-Nerub .

Take the time to go to, say, Wowhead and look at their zone descriptions for the instances. Create little cheat sheets, one page instructions breaking down what each boss does, or tips to watch for from the trash.

As an example, have a sheet for Azjol-Nerub that details Skirmisher abilities on the first boss, so you are prepared for when it ignores you and heads for the most distant player to destroy. Or mentions on Hadronox that if you stand in his green poison cloud, your lost health is healing the boss.

When you zone into a specific chosen instance, let the rest of the group know that, regardless of your gear or the level range of the normal instance, you are there to practise your tanking skills, and ask if everyone is okay with taking it a little slower than they may be used to, to help give you a chance to learn how to do it right. Depending on the group, you may even get some folks willing to offer helpful, non-dickwad suggestions.

And above all else… practise. Be serious about getting better.

Identify the normal situations… what to do when a ranged caster doesn’t come to you, what to do when you’ve got a large group on you and you lose aggro on one mob, learn how to mark, etc. 

Take the time, if you don’t already know it, to familiarize yourself with the different options of crowd control that other classes may have.

As a Bear tank, you can’t silence distant caster mobs to force them to come to you. But you can always ask other players to use their CC, so long as you and others don’t break it. 

You can also do what I do, use an addon like CaelNameplates to see aggro on all mobs, at once without tabbing, and be ready to toss Growl/Feral Faerie Fire on ranged mobs that you see you lost aggro on. Or Feral Charge them when your current target dies. Or whatever.

My point is, if you want to learn to tank, remember you don’t HAVE to LFG a random Heroic in your new full set of Triumph gear, get a Heroic Halls of Reflection, and be left wondering what the heck to do next.

Here’s hoping that things ease out soon, we get more people inspired to tank, and happy tanking!

63 Responses to “The journey to the dark side ain’t complete, but it’s slouching along”
  1. Figworth says:

    I know exactly how you feel. On the DK, groups pop in seconds. On the warlock, it takes 10-20 minutes. I’ve taken to recruiting a tank from trade chat before I queue up, just to make it faster.

  2. Matt Lee says:

    Since 3.2 I have made my druid tank/healer my main. I mostly heal in our 10 man raids but have run a lot of dungeons as tank. The new LFG is awesome for me as i can get an insta-group whenever I want. I’ve been tank more than healer. One thing I’ve come to appreciate about the new 5mans is they really can help you learn to play your class. Trash packs in Pit are a bit close so you have to pull carefully (especially if you’re clearing it all for hilts) and HoR used to be tear inducing but once you figure out a little CC and get in a rhythm it’s not so bad. I know that I’ve become a better tank through the frantic pace the trash waves. Learning to better mash cooldowns, aggro, placement, etc.

    The old dungeons are about getting thru the content as fast as possible, but the new stuff is definitely challenging and fun (and frustrating at times). WTB Battered Hilt, pst
    .-= Matt Lee´s last blog ..Debt Free and Lovin’ It =-.

  3. Minos says:

    I had the “tank abandons the party” happen to me in reverse on Sunday. I got a terrible group for the Forge of Souls. There was the warrior tank who stacked too much stamina and not enough mitigation (PvP gear? Seriously?), and the DPS that would attack random targets and pull them off the tank with anemic threat output. I was routinely using half my mana on a single trash pull, where usually that’s 5%. We got off to a great start as we nearly wiped on the first pull because the tank charged ahead and out of LoS while I ate the feast one of them thoughtfully provided. That feast turned out to be the best part of the run.

    Unsurprisingly, a couple of them died every other pull. Then, suddenly, “You have been removed from the group.” They actually vote-kicked me, hooray! “Blame the healer”, indeed. Since we hadn’t even gotten to the first boss yet, I just re-queued. Got a group instantly, and proceeded to steamroll the place. I suspect I may have finished before the first group found a replacement healer.

  4. Cornfedhick says:

    I totally agree with you on this one. While the badges allow people to gear up rather quickly, nothing can replace earned experience on those both wanting to tank or heal. It took a while until I was comfortable going back and forth from healer to tank on my priest and warrior. It’s taken about a year now and I’m finally at the point where I can truly be comfortable as a tank. Having a separate healer and DPS toon has helped immensely with learning positioning and situation awareness on boss encounters. Just the other day I was healing for a group in the LFG and got heroic UP with all DKtards and not one of them was above 1.5k on the damage meters. All the DPS had higher health than the tank and each one had a different talent tree with all 71pts in unholy, frost, and 2 in blood. After 6 attempts on Skadi the group fell apart. They wanted to go do heroic HoR and I didn’t feel like a bigger repair bill.

  5. Turby says:

    As a tip for Druids: Don’t immediately hit “Gift of the Wild” when everyone zones in just in case some people decide to leave. (I’ve wasted about 1 Gold doing so D=)

  6. dorgol says:

    ou know, they are right some ways. For the first time in my WoW career I’m actually burned-out on Heroics with my Paladin. When 3.3 launched I had around 115 Triumph emblems from raiding.

    Within 10 days I had THREE HUNDRED. It was just too easy to get a group, and not just get a group, but get a group and steamroll anything the heroics could give me.

    I spent all those emblems on Furious gear and switched to Retribution. I still queue once a day as Holy (my main spec), but I’m not going to be tanking any heroics for awhile.

    I agree, though, that more people will consider tanking. It should mirror what we saw in Battlegrounds after TBC released – there are more PvP healers than ever thanks to Arenas.

    There will never be enough tanks, though.

  7. jack says:

    “more people seeing long wait times as DPS will dual spec if possible, and start gearing up a tank spec.”

    I can vouch for that already. My 16 year old ran a dual specced ret/holy Paladin. After a few days of LFG, he changed his ret for protection. My 12 year old ran a dual specced Death Knight, Blood and Unholy, for dps and, I don’t know, because he thought ghouls were cool or something. He dropped the Unholy spec for a Frost tanking build after just one day of waiting for tanks.

    I’ve got to say I like seeing people who I know are both good tanks and decent people get excited about playing the role. The “rockstars” are giving tanks, in general, a bad name.

  8. Yossi says:

    I started playing WoW about 18 months ago, and rolled a mage. I’d spent my school years playing AD&D, etc., various RPGs, left that life for years as I “grew up”, but had been meaning to play WoW for quite a while before I actually signed up. For about a year, I solidly learnt caster DPS mechanics, and became a DPS force with which to be reckoned.

    Upon hitting 80, I felt that it was time for a sea change. I’ve got a slew of alts (every race and class) sitting at around lvl 1-20, and decided to level up a priest next (linked). One of my motivating forces was the lack of healers, and good healers, at that. Selfishly (most of us live in capitalistic societies), I wanted to exploit a weakness in the market, namely for healers. It also wasn’t too much of a departure from the caster spec I was previously playing (the gearing is scarily similar for a magge and a holy priest, nowadays). Tanking seemed a little difficult, especially given my lack of melee experience. When I got bored, I’d play my shaman, druid (feral) or rogue (19 twink).

    I finally got my healer to 60, and went from shadow to holy, and by the time I was 70, I was getting about 60% of XP through healing instances for practice. I’ve since hit 80, and am fairly geared for ICC – I achieved that in pretty much record time, especially since conquest emblems were dropping like , and grouping was REALLY easy as a priest. As a mage, people would get all picky about the green this-or-that, but as a healer, people were much, much more forgiving. I was generaly party leader, plucking non-clothies out of LFG (sorry, mages/locks), and had 4-5 decent tanks (paladins or druids – much easier to heal) on my friends list, with whom I’d build up a mutual trust. Leveling a shadowpriest, and instance-leveling a holy priest was a dream, simply because I was in such high demand.

    The reason that I’ve been reading this forum from head to fuzzy tail, is because I’m now confident enough to exploit that holy grail – tanking. Liqian (same server – EU Turalyon) accidentally hit 40 (she was my lvl 39 PvP to-be tank druid) by taking some candy on Hallow’s End. She was already stacked with stamina/agility/blues-and-purples, and I’ve just started getting serious about instance-leveling her up to 80, as a tank, with healer offspec. Yesterday, I tanked my first instance through the random dungeon (sweet rewards for low-level characters, by the way) – SM Cathederal. We actually started in Uldaman, realised that we hadn’t picked up the rod, all teleported out half-way, then tried to rejoin, and got Cath (weird). At any rate, the first thing I said is “This is my first time tanking, guys. I have no idea what I’m doing”.

    Well, other than forgetting to clear the trash in the side-rooms, it all went smoothly. I was surprised at how accomodating people were when I told them that I’d never tanked before. As a mage, and even sometimes as a priest, I was used to preople kicking (or leaving) at that point. But as a tank… I think I shall now demand a Saronite star on my door, and roast quail tails in royal jelly as a snack between bosses. Wow. Back to reality – I was lucky to group up with generally nice folk (except that hunter who kept pulling everything within 43 yards), but it really is true. We are out there, us exploiters.

    Most importantly, thanks for this blog – it’s helping us capitalistic exploiters of the scarcity of tanks in the marketplace to learn a few skills and tips. With tanking knowledge in such high demand, blogs like this will be getting a lot more attention. And just as experience as a healer has changed my playstyle with my DPS characters, I expect tanking to similarly open my eyes to the “other side” of WoW play.

  9. Kaethir says:

    I’m dual spec bear and tree… and I’d kinda been wondering why 90% of my random runs had been as tank…

    Now I guess I know why…
    .-= Kaethir´s last blog ..I’m a Druid, and I Cheat =-.

  10. Kaethir says:

    Also…

    Much as Rhii suggests over at I Sheep Things suggests for a healer, I think I’ll create a macro to spam at the beginning of random dungeons…

    “Hi, I’ll be your tank for this run. Here are some suggestions for a clean, smooth run: Attack the marked target, or failing that, my target (kill order: skull, x, square). Silence casters if you can; I can’t. Misdirect or tricks of the trade on me much and often. If a mob does get loose and chase you, run to me. Don’t stand in the fire. If I’m going too fast say something. If I’m going too slow, don’t pull things for me – I’ll let you tank them. Use AoE only if the group is well closed up on me or I’ll let you tank what you pull. Don’t use knockback attacks. Hug your bear. That is all.”
    .-= Kaethir´s last blog ..I’m a Druid, and I Cheat =-.

  11. jealouspirate says:

    My main is a Resto Shaman, and I can totally identify with your experience healing the tank in the poison.

    Really good or overgeared healers and tanks have the ability to make up for inadequacies of other players more than a dps player can. More often, I’m observing, that means mistakes are being made and no attention is paid to them. Especially in pugs. With the amount of people who get angry when you suggest they are doing something wrong, why risk the hate to explain things when you can just bruteforce heal them and win the fight?

    When you’re dealing with a raider who ignores these things because he’s lazy or thinks heroics don’t matter, it’s just annoying. But I’m worried about what this mentality could mean for new players. What will happen in Cataclysm, when the gear resets and it wont be possible to use the same brute force tactics? It might be a big wake up call for some…

  12. Will says:

    Because I have an intense fear of bad PuGs, it took me about a week to finally get the nerve to try out the new LFG system. I do have to say I’ve been enjoying it, except that my very first run via the new system had a tank that was very fond of pulling half a dozen mobs and then either pulling them out of my range/LoS, or randomly switching his target so I had near-constant aggro problems.

    Other than that, it’s been all good. I got into a CoS run last night where, after we killed Salramm, the tank had to go AFK for a couple of minutes to get supper. We were still able to beat the timer and get our extra Emblem (no one needed the Drake) with about five minutes left to go.

    I’ve only been using the new LFG for about a week, and I typically only do three or four, sometimes five, Instances a night, but I haven’t really noticed myself getting the same ones over and over. I do seem to get Utgarde Keep at least once a night, and CoS seems fairly common, but I’ve only gotten Oculus once; thankfully with a good group with a leader that queued us up for about four Instances one after the other. Some that I haven’t randomly gotten at all yet are Utgarde Pinnacle, Halls of Stone, or ToC. I’ve never had the same one pop up more than once in a night.

    I remember one of the first runs I did (first or second night using the new system) was a Violet Hold with a Bear tank. Now, I’ve always had a soft spot for Druid tanks and healers, and this tank was amazing. He was right on the ball moving from portal to portal, and it was a run where I didn’t have to throw Misdirects, even for the portals where the mobs split. He kited the Ethereal boss beautifully. He was good.

    During the lull after the Xevozz, though, he apologized to the group because he hadn’t played in about three months and he thought his tanking was rusty. I was dumbfounded and didn’t say anything, and when Cyanigosa went down, people dropped group pretty quickly, and with him being from another server, I had no way of letting him know how good he really was.

  13. Holly says:

    I’m honestly seeing a rise in tanks that probably shouldn’t be tanking. I have three wonderful examples, and both had better kind of be glad I wasn’t healling though I did manage to kill two as DPS as a kind of ‘hey stupid’ revenge.

    1.) Dungeon: Occulus Tank: Warrior Me: Shadow priesty.
    So we start in Occulus, and I’m queued with a shaman healler I love to death, get a group near instantly pop in, everybody’s gear looks decent, and I’m happily buff-hey where’d the tank go? So the tank rushes on ahead, something I’m not entirely unused to, but what I am unused to is…..he grabs the first big mob, and ignored the whelps, rushes to the -next- group of big mobs, and….ignores the whelps and then grabs the third group of big mobs and…..you guessed it, ignores the whelps. So we’re back at the beginning rushing to catch up, and all these whelps start wailing on us, or more accurately, our healler while we catch up, so I start hitting the whelps, silence them with my bloodelfy talent and bring them to the tank about the time the big adds die, and he……runs on to the next group, leaving us to kill the whelps. So he rushes on ahead again, so I tell the shaman healler and other dps in open party chat to just not take the portal, that I sense the tank is going to rush on, pu ll the boss, and expect us to be there, and yep, I’m right, tank dies, blames the healler even though it’s -in- party chat me saying to do it, and proceeds to string a line of profanities that would make your mother blush. The rest of the run tends to be a ‘why is the tank 800 feet ahead’ but other than that less than noteworthy as there aren’t any more adds to ignore.

    2.) Dungeon: HoS Tank: Bear me: Pallydin thallywhacker.
    So my hope to soon be tank is in HoS with a bear tank I think could be an offserver alt of the warrior, he rushes forward, and -all- the way around the circle that branches off to the final boss and the rest of the dungeon before stopping, doesn’t care casters aren’t getting tanked, or that he now has like 14 mobs on him, and the healler (unknown this time) quietly heals…..he does it again, up to the rock boss not stopping and not caring about casters…..sure he has 62k hp, but I mean seriously, pulling half the dungeon in a pull and just ignoring the fact casters need to be tanked? and again, healler quietly heals through it, we go to maiden, not really any casters so…..just the hallway. He goes to run toward the event, and picks up the 4 golems, rushes on ahead to grab the three charged golems……our DK dps is afk and at the maiden still, so I whisper our hunter that when he sees the tank die, feign. I DI the healler, tank falls over dead, hunter feigns, healler is like ‘buh?’ and I’m like ‘please don’t abuse the healler plzkthxbai’ he then leaves, I throw on my crap tank gear, and finish the instance.

    3.) Dungeon: Old Kingdom Tank: Paladin Me: Shadow priesty.
    This is -almost- a full friend run, I know the healler, the other 2 dps, and we pug a tank. Pally pops in, and already sense trouble when his nanme is ‘whozthetank’ but….I leave it alone till he pulls, he obviously has a god complex and does ridiculous sized pulls, luckily our healler is way overgeared, and nuts, and all the dps (blood DK, me, enhancement shaman) can kind of heal ourselves without really needing to kill our dps. Then we beat the first two bosses, while making fun of the paladin on vent. So we come out to the big open spot where you can kinda choose which of the 3 bosses you want, and the elementals are there. Well he rushes for the final boss, and by rush I mean, takes the 2 groups w/ elementals there -and- the 2 pats, and immediately just goes squish, we wipe, and start running back, paladin doesn’t release. We run inside and he’s like ‘can I get a ress?’ and at this point, even if we could ress him (we couldn’t because of his position) but even if we could, we wouldn’t have. So I say “no” he goes “plz” I go “No” he goes “Plzzzzzz” and this goes on until I make it back there and do a dance. And finally he goes “ull regret tht deshision’ when suddenly “VOTE TO KICK Y/N?’ pops up and Jotunn (blood dk) is like ‘yep, saw this coming’ the guy is kicked in less than half a second, and jotunn frost presence ghetto tanks the rest of the instance.

    It makes me glad my pallywhacker will be a tank soon, some of these make me cry.

  14. dorgol says:

    @BBB – “We could debate the RNG factor affecting what instances we get, and our suspicions that Blizzard has, ahem, weighted some to crop up more than others. But I’m sure it’s not the case. Ahem.”

    To visit this – there is definately a weighting going on. Blizzard told us flat out that gear would be considered when queue-ing, and they have obviously carried it to its logical conclusion. Here are my guys:

    >> My crap geared warrior only gets things like Nexus, UK, etc. I’ve done an UP once or twice, but I’m not even ALLOWED to queue for Heroic ToC, Heroic Forge / Pit / Halls.

    >> My decently geared Warlock gets into Oculus, HoL, HoS, UP all the time. In fact he’s done Oculus 6 times since the patch was added (and he doesn’t queue every day – I only have 14 Frost Emblems).

    >> My OP geared Paladin gets HToC and the new 5-mans about 40% of the time.

  15. Iron says:

    @BBB: As always old friend, you have a great post – which contains massively important gems: your tips at the end are “must reads” for all starting tanks: bear or otherwise!
    .-= Iron´s last blog ..New Row of Bag Slots Coming?! =-.

  16. bigbearbutt says:

    Great comments, really, the kind of stories that make me go read your blogs, or if you don’t have one, make me wish you did.

    Iron… Iron, I want to smack you. Now I feel like I need to copy/paste the bottom and expand it a bit for a post of it’s own, and then do a series of “so you think you want to tank” intro pieces.

    AND I DON’T HAVE THE TIME!!!

    /damnit

  17. Kattrinsaa says:

    So far i’ve had good results, have had HHOL twice, HCOS twice, H AN once and did NHOS once manually. (even got my regular dungeonmaster acheivement for northrend) Generally, i go boomkin and rock along with 2500-3000 dps depending on mobs and their concentration.

    The normal HOS run was a spontaneous thing for a guildie that had a bad pug. this holy priest at 77, myself in bear form at 80, and a guild 80 shaman needed an instance and we couldn’t get it to queue us for some reason, probably because 77 and 80 are different brackets? Anyway, I wanted to get some tanking practice in. So naturally i picked an instance i had never been in in my entire life…. yeah..

    We lucked out and the two dps addons from LFG were pretty solid. We had a hunter and a DK.

    Well once i got down onto all fours, was all buffed up and everything. we started moving. The bear was a bit timid at first considering she’s been feathered ever since Kara raiding days. Kept the pace down a bit at first till i started remembering how the claws and teeth worked. We took on the maiden first. (Maiden in kara being one of my favorite fights) I knew nothing going in, so i stopped and asked the group if anyone had any suggestions. all they said was move out of void zones. so.. awaay I went. She dropped like a stone fairly quickly.

    Anyway the run goes off pretty smoothly everything dies except us and the explorer dude. it wasn’t worth any badges to me, but was still fun. And I’m one step closer to starting to tank heroics. My bear gear is still quite anemic, but getting better all the time thanks to BBB’s lists here.
    .-= Kattrinsaa´s last blog ..Sorry for my absense folks =-.

  18. Dechion says:

    Ok, ok…. you got me.

    I’ll be gearing up Diashan for tanking. I have been wanting to try it anyhow.

    When I do though, I’ll be needing an understanding healer to keep my alive those first couple times.

    Do you know any?

    A well geared tree perhaps?
    .-= Dechion´s last blog ..Fourteen days later =-.

  19. Copey says:

    If Nickelback was a tank:

    I’m through with standing in line
    as Deeps I’ll never get in
    I just want to find a group
    And Triumph badges win
    This patch hasn’t turned out
    Quite the way I want it to be

    (Tell me what you want)

    I want all Tier Nine gear
    And never T-O-C
    Gear good enough to go and PVP
    Wanna steamroll content
    with just a healer and me

    (So what you need?)

    I’ll need a LFG tool that’s got no limit
    And bunch of tanking gear with stamina in it
    Gonna join the 245 club
    As DPS bow at my feet feet

    (Been there, done that)

    I want fifteen servers of old huntards
    I’m no longer limited to Dalvengar
    Just hit the new button and
    There’s an instance waiting for me

    (So how you gonna do it?)

    I’m gonna trade this spec for fortune and fame
    I’ll stack stamina and hand the heals the blame

    [Chorus:]
    ‘Cause we tanks just wanna be big rockstars
    And gather all the loot and laugh from afar
    The groups come easy and the deeps come cheap
    We’ll all stay skinny ’cause sandwiches we won’t eat
    And we’ll hang out in the Dalaran bars
    No time between all the instance starts
    Every good DPS
    Gonna wind up there
    No marks or crowd control
    ’Cause we just don’t care

    Hey hey I wanna be a rockstar
    Hey hey I wanna be a rockstar

  20. Naturalregis says:

    I’ve stopped pugging with my tank. I can’t stand groups that don’t follow the clearly marked kill order. Or those that AoE everything before I get two swipes in. It gets frustrating. “wtf hold aggro!” /sigh
    .-= Naturalregis´s last blog ..Do you see what I see? =-.

  21. Ratshag says:

    “First, if you CAN gear up from going as a different spec on LFG in Heroic, by all means do so. There is no shame in running as DPS or Heals, and rolling on tanking offset gear and using Triumph Emblems to buy tanking goodies.”

    This.

    I tried tanking a few runs in me iLvl 187-200 gear, and found I just couldn’t hold aggro on multiple trash mobs when the dps’ers in T9 let lose with the AoEs. Not that it mattered, since the glubbernuggers died so dang fast nobody seemed ta care, or even notice. Efficient, but not very fun. So now I started running as arms spec, and saving me emblems fer phat tanking loots. Takes longer fer ta get a group, but that gives me time to work on them last two dang gold coins in the fountain.

    I’ll tank fer me friends. Running with thems makes doing the job fun.
    .-= Ratshag´s last blog ..Gone Fishin’ =-.

  22. Copey says:

    I do have a non-nickleback related comment about this:

    “First, if you CAN gear up from going as a different spec on LFG in Heroic, by all means do so. There is no shame in running as DPS or Heals, and rolling on tanking offset gear and using Triumph Emblems to buy tanking goodies.”

    One question, if there is a DE in the group, and four people vote to DE, and you roll greed (since you are a good person and not an asshat ninja per my servers standards) do you get the item? Or does it get DE’d? I don’t need anything for any spec on my druid out of heroics, so I don’t know, but some guildies told me if DE gets more votes it gets DE’d. Which…means you almost have to need on tank stuff even if you are not the tank if you have an enchanter with you in the group.

    Obviously you could post the question “Mind if I roll Need on tank gear that the tank doesn’t need?”, but then of course that would require clear communication skills that I’m seeing a lot of these random cross server pugs lack.

    Also, since it’s cross server, and “you won’t ever see those people again” I’ve seen the tendency to roll need with out asking. Personally, I don’t care as I roll to DE everything, or greed if DE is not an option, but somebody that actually needs the gear certainly could have a problem with it.

    Makes you think maybe nobody should be rolling on anything before a conversation about loot happens.

  23. Gerronimo says:

    Have to agree with the “tanks have fast queues”. I hardly ever wait even a single minute. I’ve also found that most of the groups I join want to stay together and chain randoms. However, I think have a Holy Priest alt that I’m also trying to gear up and it’s quite a different story!

    BTW, love the Nickelback parody. Good stuff.

    Something that I feel might help with random groups and bad experiences is to try and put as much of the group together yourself as possible. Get a core group of good players (even just 2) and it minimizes the effect that asshattery has on the group. I’ve actually had someone join a random as dps that said “Hey wait I need afk a few to smoke brt LOL”. Luckily we were able to easily 4-man H Nexus until he caught up with us at Anomalus. If you have a solid healer or tank, they can usually offset the bad playing styles of others in a 5-man.

  24. Copey says:

    Should NOT…I meant should NOT be rolling…

  25. jack says:

    I was surprised at how accomodating people were when I told them that I’d never tanked before.

    In my experience using LFG for Northrend Normals, Northrend Heroics and vanilla Classics . . . the Classic dungeoneers are by far the kindest. I’m guessing it’s related to the whole “I’m so l33t” attitude some people get from running end game content. The ones with low level characters are either new to the game or are, to one degree or another, altaholics, i.e. types who either still remember or constantly keep themselves reminded what it’s like to have limitations.

  26. Will says:

    @ Copey:

    From what I’ve been able to gather in my experience with the new system, the priority SEEMS to be Need > Greed > Disenchant. I’ve been in a few groups where four of us will select “Disenchant” on an item and the fifth will select straight “Greed”. Whenever I’ve seen this happen, the person who selected “Greed” always got the item.

    Of course, things are typically moving along quickly enough that I can’t get the greatest look at the log, and it may just be the RNG making it LOOK like this is the case, but as far as I know, that’s the way it seems to be working. Because what you select only indicates what you want to happen if YOU win the roll. So selecting Disenchant is telling the game “If I win this, I want the Shard/Dust, not the item.”

  27. jack says:

    @Copey:

    Disenchant is, essentially, a greed roll that results in getting the enchanting mats instead of the item. So yes, if you want an item for off spec you should need it. If the person in that position for your group also needs the item, you can work it out after the roll.

    It’s worth being aware that it might happen to items you want, i.e. if you’re the tank, someone gearing up for an off-spec (soon to be main-spec, undoubtedly) tanking set might roll need on items with exactly this in mind. If you also need the item, especially if you haven’t won any upgrades yet, just ask for it. If they guy who won the item has an ounce of decency he’ll hand it over.

    An example of what not to do:

    My son just respecced his DK to tank and is accumulating a set. He got into a group as dps for H FoS, a nice tanking piece dropped and he correctly rolled need to prevent it from being disenchanted. The tank went absolutely ballistic because he also needed the item AND HE WAS THE GD TANK GDIT!!!!!! My son (very maturely for a 12yo, IMO) explained what he was doing and the tank just let loose with string of explicatives that are the whole reason I enable the mature language filter.

    “Forget this guy,” I told my son, “you don’t have to cooperate with people like that.”

    /leavegroup

    I totally think the right thing to do is give the tank first dibs on tanking gear. But I’m just not going to put up with assholes.

  28. Wavemancali says:

    I’ve grouped as DPS and heals but I am reluctant to group on my tank as I leveled him last and his gear is not that great. I have the Perky PUG on both my Elemental Shaman and Holy Priest.

    I’m getting fed up with “RockStar” tanks when I play the priest. Last GunDrak run it was pull the whole start room, pull the boss when there are still 2 of the 9 snakes up and no stops until the end. No drinking allowed apparently. The Shaman in the group ignored my request to drop a cleansing totem too. Then next one was a chain pulling rogue in HoL.

    At least with DPS I can let them die without wiping the entire party. I feel obligated to keep the tank up if I am able because generally if he dies we all die.
    .-= Wavemancali´s last blog ..Wohoo! =-.

  29. Copey says:

    @Jack

    I don’t think you are intentionally doing anything wrong…but you may be doing it unintentionally. I don’t think you can trade items after the roll if the person is from a different server. So the whole “figure it out after the roll” is not going to work. I may be wrong, but pretty sure this was the whole reason for the DE option in the first place.

    Also, it may explain why a tank was upset (he had no right to curse out a complete stranger, because seriously, it could have and turned out to be a youngster), and it probably looked kind of bad on your sone to leave group after. Just might want to check up on that before you encourage him to roll need on offspec gear. Or….to discuss it before the group starts. Can you see when the other people have rolled, and what they rolled? I’ve never really noticed.

  30. Dave says:

    So, I’ve seen the whole RNG of Heroics is Rigged conversation pop up often. But it can all be explained in a simple priority Bliz gave the “Randomness.” Basically, once you run a heroic (and are saved) it lessens the chance you will get that heroic untill you get all the others.

    “Wait! That means i SHOULDN’T be getting these same crappy ones over and over!”

    Well, that would be true if everyone ONLY did randoms, and never left a group before being saved. The problem is that some people DO run the Heroics they want before starting randoms, and leave the randoms they don’t want before being saved. So say for example:

    Member1: Ran H HoF, H PoS, H FoS then queued
    Member2: Ran H ToS, H FoS, then queued
    Member3: Has been running randoms all day, but has always bailed on H Occ/ H HoS
    Member4: Has been running randoms, but always bailed on H Occ
    Member5: Is Fresh

    Because of the combination of people selecting the new instances first (for high Ilevel gear/Battle Hilt) and because of people avoiding instances, you are more likely to get the instances no one wants to do.

    So even though it is a RNG, since we try to “Cheat” the system, we ruin it for everyone else. You have to remember, the RNG isn’t just based off of you, but the whole group. Even though YOU got stuck with H Occ 3 times in a row, it’s only because 25 people have avoided it 3 times in a row.

    How do you solve this? You do the first boss in H Occ (so it saves you), THEN leave. There is no good reason for ANYONE to leave H Occ before the first boss. It takes 2 Min to get to him and he’s easy. You’re going to have to wait 15 min anyways, might as well get ONE Emblem.

    Please spread the word. Make a Macro for H Occ “DON’T LEAVE TILL WE KILL THE FIRST BOSS.” lol

  31. Gx1080 says:

    As a brand new tank (80 today, yeah), everybody will bitch about your gear until you get t9 shoulders. You are def capped? Yes. Are you sure that you are def capped? You don’t seem to be def capped. I’m sorry to interrupt your facerolling with a gear and spec PERFECTLY FINE FOR HEROICS.

    That said, as a DK, I was “How the fuck I’m going to hold threat to people in Colliseum gear??” until I macro’ed Rune Strike to everything. Not that the bitching stopped until I got the damn shoulders.

  32. Gx1080 says:

    And Occulus has been beaten with the nerfbat HARD. Can’t believe that people bail of a boring faceroll like that.

  33. Ngita says:

    How not to get HoR. Dont complete the quest line from POS. Simple, I have my nubby warrior who dinged 80 about 7 weeks ago in that state. I get to tank everything else and I am fine with even occulus but I have no desire to tank HoR.

  34. Myrx says:

    Well, Wind – I’m sad to hear you hate locks. But then again, lots of people seem to :)
    FWIW, I do try to avoid tapping below 50%; I’m getting better at staying out of fire, and I respecc’d partly to give a nice party buff (Demonic Pact) which boosts dps for others. I always offer healthstones, and soulstone the healer. Unfortunately, demonology builds lack replenishment, so life tapping is all I can do to keep mana up … at least until I change my offspec.

    I noticed this weekend that, for the first time since BC, I had to start worrying about threat again – my gear has gotten a lot better since 3.3 dropped :) As Ratshag said, once you get a couple pieces of T9, it’s all too easy to give fits to a lesser-geared tank. (Of course, I’d also gotten used to running with awesome tanks in the guild.)

    So, I’m planning to respec again, for a more PuG-friendly build. Deep affliction gives good self-replenishment (to reduce healer-aggro) and somewhat reduced threat (and, since my burst damage will drop, pulling agro during trash fights probably won’t be an issue). That’s likely what I’ll do – I’ve never played destruction, and while deep destruction has good mana replenishment for the party, and some threat reduction … I have to think a destro build is more likely to have aggro issues. I may also keep a few lower-spec items handy, so I can nerf my dps if necessary.

    Of course, the main thing is to L2P better :) And to spend more time with my shammy, running normal dungeons to hone my healing skills. I’m planning to do pretty much what you suggested for new tanks – I already have cheat sheets for the easier Northrend 5-mans, and have healed a few with good results.

    I think the new LFG is a game-changer. It will be interesting to see how WoW culture and customs change in response, as we all learn how to make cross-server PuGs work better.

  35. Coldbear says:

    Anonymity breeds asshattery. See Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.

    Otoh, you can’t blame newbie tanks who don’t want to deal with possibly bad pug experiences in instances they don’t like. Everyone’s entitled to spend their game time how they want.

  36. Hal says:

    This being the Christmas season, I can’t really run on my 80s, given the spotty wi-fi at the ancestral homestead. So, during my downtime, I’ve been experimenting with the LFG system for my under-30 alts. My thoughts, in no particular order:

    1) It’s the worst aspects of early-game WoW rolled up in one package. You get those people who haven’t yet figured out how to play the game, such as the level 20 tank who is still wearing gray gear and using the starting weapon, or the hunters who leave their pets on aggressive and pull half the instance. I can’t fault people for not knowing how to play the game that early on, but attempting to level up by dungeons (quite viable with the new LFG tool) is painful when you meet these folks all the time.

    2) Wailing Caverns is proof that Blizzard hates us all.

    3) As at 80, if you sign up for Tank/Healer or DPS, you’re going to be the Tank/Healer.

    4) I’m sure Blizzard meant a lot of those early instances to have an epic feel to them based on the scope, but criminy . . . these things are long!

    5) Player arrogance is still as big of a problem as when I was leveling my main. I ran Stockades with a warlock who was abusing my shaman as a “noob” because I didn’t have an 80 (never mind my full complement of BoA gear). After trying to explain to him that, instead of putting his soul stone on himself, he should put it on the guy who can rez everyone after a wipe, he declared that he “hated this instance” and left us. Seriously folks, you’ll make this game so much better by helping people learn to play rather than abusing them for not knowing how to play.

    6) I’m getting much more experience running dungeons back-to-back than I was questing, but I’m quite certain my professions are going to suffer as a result. I may have to dedicate some time to working on them at certain periods.

    That’s about it. Maybe once I get past lvl 30 with my alts I’ll have more to say.
    .-= Hal´s last blog ..Forging science in the CRUcible =-.

  37. I feel the sting. I really do ><

    My bear bottom was raised into training in Naxxaramas, Ulduar and Trial of the Champion–all 10 mans for my casual guild. This worked all fine since I remembered these raids like the back of my hand. That said, my tanking in some 5-man heroics absolutely STINKS. A couple of bad experiences with guildies leading to silly wipes have more or less discouraged me from tanking most 5-mans, let along PUG with 4 complete strangers! If out of necessity I have to tank, and happen to drop group, it'll be because I'm afraid of chocking up people's repair bills.

    Some PUGers are forgiving–I tanked FoS fine but didn't want to step into PoS once, but the shaman heals encouraged me to (PoS seems pretty much a tank-idiot check that I fail). We wiped about 3 times and she/he even asked if I wanted to do HoR… No thank you. I felt so guilty for the wipes already. Maybe after reading this post, I'll be able to get over this terrible phobia and try becoming a better tank.
    .-= Fearful bear.´s last blog ..NEW FORMS!!! =-.

  38. Darth Solo says:

    Hey great article.
    As a hunter I’m experiencing longer queues, 15-20 minutes. I’ve still got a while until I can get all the badges I need.
    The scarcity of tanks might be a reality in the near future as they move to raids and higher content.
    If that happens, hopefully by then I will have geared my hunter sufficiently, and I can try to do some instances with my paladin who’s dual specced ret-prot. I’ve never tanked an instance with him though so it’s gonna be tough at the beginning.

  39. Telaria says:

    I gotta admit, I’ve stuck it out through a number of dungeons I hate hard core as the tank because I don’t want to make people requeue. I’ve been lucky not to pull H:OK or, bizarrely, any of the new heroics so far, which are the ones I worry most about in terms of ‘people are gonna be dumb/intolerant of a sane pace’. H:HoS has trained me heavily in watching where party members stand, Oculus is… well, practically easy, now.

    On the other hand, ‘stop being a dick or you can find a new tank’ works wonders for people tossing out slurs or insults at other players in party chat.

  40. snuzzled says:

    @Kaethir

    I am totally stealing that macro. <3

  41. Owlii says:

    I only just started tanking (and thank you for your tank post earlier this year helped me a bunch) after running instances as boom. Annoys me so much how people just ignore debuffs on players. I can kinda understand it in the old heroics (except the poison at the start of OK), but the new ones? Those poisons in HoR hurt. As a tank can’t exactly do anything, but at least as boom I could. Healers/dps, remember your dispel buttons please!

  42. Other Cassie says:

    I waver on dropping out of pugs. I tend to bail on Oculus — not because it’s difficult, but because it makes me motion-sick. No PuG is worth 3-5 hours wasted on lying around trying not to puke. I do apologize and explain before I leave, but I still feel guilty. I’ve also bailed twice on groups that were just bad — one tank was hellbent on getting the achievements in Azjol-Nerub but didn’t understand how to pull the Watchers before the first boss, and yelled at me (holy paladin) for not healing while I was webbed. And I have to admit, I AM terrible at healing while I am subject to mechanics that remove control of my character — just like every other healer. The other group… well, the DPS decided they didn’t need the tank to pull, so the tank bailed and I followed.

  43. Tash says:

    A strange tank occurrence I notice the other night using the random LFG: While dps’ing H DTK on my Warrior (slowly building a tank set) during the add phase of Novos, the tank refused to leave the stairs and insisted that I, as DPS, tank the Crystal Summoners or whatever they’re called. This of course was no problem between good heals and me being fairly well geared between triumph rewards and heroic drops, but still struck me as quite strange. Has anyone else seen that strategy before? (Admittedly I’m not up to date on the latest strategies for heroics, I’m still shocked at having come back from a 2 month break right after 3.1 dropped to find that groups go to the mage boss in Nexus first instead of of the golem guy, while it makes sense to me, it’s still just weird to see.)

  44. Kats says:

    First, greed does not take precedence over DE so if you want it offspec you do have to roll need.
    Second, you can trade an item with someone cross-server so long as you are still in the instance. (There was a bug at first so items disappeared but that has been fixed). So offspec should roll need but be willing to trade to main spec.

  45. Will says:

    @ Kats:

    I had a run tonight where I finally saw a “Disenchant” roll win out over a straight “Greed”. As soon as I saw it, I realized the goof I had made in my earlier comment. I was going to come here and correct my mistake, but I thank you for correcting it for me. And to Copey, I apologize for being stupid enough to let my experience alone guide my answer. I hope my mistake didn’t mess you up at all. >.<

    And to counterbalance the good runs that I mentioned earlier, I finally met a couple of asshats tonight. (I've been pretty lucky overall, even before the new LFG system, in that I haven't met too many asses in the game.)

    It was Gundrak, and the healer; a Shaman, and one of the DPS; a Rogue, were from the same Guild. The other three of us were from three different servers. As far as I could tell, the two Guildies were fairly experienced as far as PvE content goes. As soon as we get buffed and ready to go, the Shammy and the Rogue tell the tank to pull fast, to just hurry up and go.

    Well, the tank (who, like me, didn't say anything in party chat the whole run) is going at a nice, steady pace, but apparently it isn't fast enough. The Rogue, who spent most of the run insulting the tank and telling him how slow he was going, did most of the pulling while the tank tried to keep up. Fast-forward to the final boss.

    We downed him with no problem. The fifteen-minute Dungeon Finder debuff had just recently expired, no less. The "Dungeon complete" window pops up at the same time as the loot, and as I mouse over "Greed" for the Frozen Orb, the other window vanishes, and the Need/Greed box for the Orb drops just enough for me to click "Need" by mistake. Now, before I have a chance to explain and apologize, the Rogue calls me a "Dumbass" and the healer calls me a "Douche Hunter".

    But guess what? The Rogue won the Orb. Turns out he had rolled Need BEFORE I accidentally clicked it myself. And they dropped group before I had a chance to respond. And boy howdy, did I want to respond.

    Needless to say, I've taken advantage of the new cross-server Ignore; just in case.

  46. Ozzard says:

    ask if everyone is okay with taking it a little slower than they may be used to, to help give you a chance to learn how to do it right. Depending on the group, you may even get some folks willing to offer helpful, non-dickwad suggestions.

    Ha ha ha ha ha… etc. I’ve stopped tanking on LFG, as a typical exchange in the groups I’ve worked with runs approximately as follows.

    Me: “Evening folks. I’ll be pulling packs separately with a couple of seconds between packs.”

    DPS: “loln00bfaster”

  47. GonnaBeAJerk says:

    I’ve read your blog here and while you have a lot of points I’m going to have to stick up for my fellow tanks. I’ve tanked since vanilla and am can be considered one of those tanks that cause the shortage on most servers. “I won’t tank pugs!” was my battlecry through BC and early Wrath. Bad pugs can make the easiest pull hard, can make the shortest instance last forever, can make my repair bill higher than 1g, and can raise my blood pressure more than it needs to be.

    When 3.3 hit I hit the Dungeon Finder system hard. I’ve tanked for hundreds of pugs now and for the most part it was enjoyable, until my last few runs. I’ve started to get put into groups where the DPS can barely pull 1000 while aoeing trash. I’ve had 4 groups in a row where my prot warrior is top of the damage meter AND first or second on dps. I’m sick of that. Why should I stick around in a FoS group when the DPS are in blues and greens? Why should I stick around when they can’t play their class? I can drop group, wait 15 minutes, and get my badges from that group. Some other tank can deal with the old groups problems. I’m done.

  48. tue says:

    As a healer, I have mixed feelings about healing folks in the fire. On the one hand, I like to finish instances fast and it makes it more fun if its challenging. On the other hand I think you are right that people are starting to expect that they can stand in the slime now because everybody is epic right? I think this does a great disservice to new healers, i am really glad that I out-geared Heroics before the patch dropped because I can’t imagine how many vote kicks I would get if I was actually in heroic gear and could not heal through the avoidable damage.

    I have also noticed that a lot more people die in heroics now than they did right after the patch, yesterday I b-rezzed the same cat twice in one HoS run! I think that people have really gotten sloppy because healers like me just brute force them through all of their stupid mistakes. But I defend my bad behavior this way, I want to heal raids not heroics, if I forget all of my skills because I can heal an H with one cast per pull, I will be a crappy healer, these idiots keep me on my game.

  49. Wiredude says:

    I’ve been actively tanking for a little over 2 months. I tank with a warrior, and he’s really become my main toon. In fact, he’s done so to such an extent I don’t think I’ve actually run my hunter in any runs since 3.3 came out. My warrior is dual-speced, prot/arms. To be fair, my DPS gear really isn’t all that great, but what it seriously lacks is enchants, and a few gems as well I think. I can still usually pull a solid 2k in a 5-man, someday I’ll finish setting up the gear and see what I can really do…
    But then again maybe not. I never use the spec. I’ve had pretty good luck so far with the random tool, and despite everyone else complaining about it, the random generator has yet to drop me in Occ. Perhaps it’s because I’ve spent a bit of time there recently helping guildies with achievement runs and the like, who knows, but honestly, it’s not bad at all now.
    The biggest problem I’ve had is getting that one or sometimes 2 people who insist that we move at blinding speed, and if I’m not pulling fast enough, take it upon themselves to pull more stuff. I try to move at a good clip, make sure that my healer is keeping up with me, and that no one is lagging too far behind. I don’t watch a clock, but I’m not sitting around if I don’t need to.
    I’ve also encountered a fair number of people who apparently have no idea what Omen (or any threat meter) is, or how to use it. I know that as a warrior my AoE threat is probably the weakest of the 4 tanking classes, but I really don’t ever get complaints. I’ve run with some folks that are pushing 4k in 5-mans, and had no issues. But somehow every few days I manage to get that person that can actually do less DPS than I am (as the tank) and still manage to constantly pull mobs out of the pile.
    Is it that much to ask to have the DPS have a clue about what they’re doing and how to manage their threat?
    I don’t leave runs, and I’ll only vote to kick someone who’s either being a total asshat, or gone unexplainedly AFK on the rest of us. I really don’t understand the “faster is better” mentality. Yes, I want to get it done, and I don’t want to take forever doing it, but just blasting through brute-foce doesn’t do anything other than get me a few badges faster.
    Actually, it does something else. It trains newer people who you’re running with to not do things the right way, not move out of the bad stuff, etc. And then we all wonder why we have problems with raiding content if we need to fill in a spot….
    .-= Wiredude´s last blog ..Why can’t I play a **** ****? =-.

  50. jack says:

    I healed Old Kingdom on my level 75 Tree last night. Got to the room with all the cultists and patrolling elementals. Tank pulled the first couple groups up the stairs just fine. Party hit the floor and we accidentally pulled two groups, including multiple fire elementals. And no one other than me moved out of their Fire Novas. After the wipe I politely mentioned that the Novas deal a lot of damage, especially with multiple simultaneous Novas, and that if everyone would please move out of the flames it would make healing immensely easier.

    Next pull, Fire Nova, everyone moved. It was beautiful.

    @Copey
    “Can you see when the other people have rolled, and what they rolled?”
    Yes. What people select (need,greed,disenchant) and their respective rolls are all displayed in the chat pane.

    @Hal
    I love Wailing Caverns! Beautiful dungeon with a tight, coherent story and awesome loot table for appropriately levelled players. I mean, it is long, but personally, I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

    @Tash
    I also saw that strategy (tank on the stairs, an off tank grabbing Handlers at the bottom) for tanking Novos for the first time in a cross realm group. Nearly every other group I’ve been in has tanked the encounter exactly opposite . . . tank on the Crystal Handlers and someone else (preferrably a plate wearer) off-tanking the stairs.

    Honestly, I never thought to analyze if it should be tanked differently until I saw it done differently. I even saw one group where everyone bunched up on the stairs and the tank grabbed up all the aggro. I think that’s the best way I’ve seen it done. It went real smoothly.

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