Yeah, you know it. Uh huh, that’s right, you know it.

Just when everyone is choking down actual gameplay teasers being released in a flood, here I come with some non-informative post about a PUG run.

Hey, there’s only so much teaser BS a person can take in one day. You gotta have somewhere to go for a laugh, right?

Last night, I returned to the PUG for a turn or two on my Druid.

My lovely, beefy Tauren piece of awesomeness.

As a sidebar, I’d never really noticed how much I had grown to dislike the appearance of my very first, original female Night Elf character. When I started the game and chose my Druid, the male Night Elf options all looked terrible to me, and the Night Elf females looked pretty nice. I didn’t know about the whole “pole dancing” thing yet.

But the face I chose for the Druid just looked… well, vapid. Stupid. Irritatingly so. She looked like a valley girl, like, ya know?

Is it any wonder you hardly ever saw me in anything other than Bear, Cat or Tree?

But my Tauren… ah, my Tauren.

I love him so much, I want to heal in Tauren form. Screw going into Tree, I can’t see those horns!

Okay, anyway.

Oops! First, let me make clear, there ARE Night Elf females I do like. I think my Nelf Hunter Windstar looks awesome. She looks both sensitive and badass at the same time. It’s not Night Elf females in general, it was the choice I made in face design for my Druid in specific. You can’t change faces in the Barbershop. Doing a faction change, for that alone, is almost worth it.

Okay, anyway, anyway. Again.

(You know I do that with my grammer just to torque Kestrel, right? Shh, don’t tell him. Oh, and now some dots, everyone loves my dots…)

((Love you, Kestrel!))

(((Damnit, I spelled Grammar right above… I better fix that… okay, fixed. Moar dots!)))

I’m in a cheerful mood, so watch out, I don’t know where I’ll be driving this bus next!

Right. Where the heck was I? Oh, yeah, right.

[Queue Keanu voice]: Woah.

So there I was last night, all horny and everything, and wanting to build up my stockpile of Emblems.

I created this Hawt Blood Elf Hunter Chick (Which is kinda like a Sexy Blood Elf Biker Chick, but with a reddish colored cat with great big fangs like this ;-<) and she’s got two Heirloom Trinkets, some sexy Heirloom PvE shoulders and a chestpiece, and this big honking double-barreled PvP Heirloom shotgun.

It’s all good, the cute off the shoulder armor with the little red vest is precious, but the shottie? That’s so, like, Dwarf, you know?

Now, if the Shotgun had some taste and refinement, if it had the finishing touches found in a nice Holland and Holland over/under combo, if it came in a fine handcrafted ebony wood case with a few bottles of Mont Blanc, well…

But no, it’s entirely too plebian. It simply will not do.

But I did see just the thing in the latest Tiffany’s collection catalog, this very well shaped Heirloom Bone Bow,  that looked just the sort of thing for a Blood Elf with an eye towards style and sophistication. Perhaps with the 12 1/4″ shafted arrows with Northrend Shoveltusk ivory inlay, silver chased heads and rare black eagle feather fletching?

Yeah, those cost 65 Emblems, and my charge cards are all maxed out. And you don’t EVEN want to go there, but you know, it was Easter, all the stores had their new Spring collections out, what can you do, you know?

So anyway, that’s totally why I need Emblems right now.

Hey, let’s go on a pug!

I went into the LFD tool as a healer, because I pretty much have decided that I will only tank for friends from now on. I play for fun, or to achieve goals for other characters that are going to be fun, and being a tank for the groups I typically get just isn’t all that spiffy anymore.

I love tanking with friends, but strangers? Yeah, not so much.

On the flip side, I try to never be the person that does to other tanks what people do to drive ME to stop pugging as one. You pass it on, right?

I joined LFD, and right away got an Azjol-Nerub group. That’s a good thing, because AN is about as smooth and straightforward and fast as you can hope for in a pug, when it’s all about return on time invested. 5 Emblems, 15 minutes. Sweet!

You suspect it’s going to be one of those runs, when you don’t even have five in the group yet, and the tank has already pulled the first mobs.

You know it’s going to be one of those groups, when you just rounded the corner trying to catch up to “hopalong tankaday”, and you get a facefull of ignored Skirmisher all up in your roots.

So, yay, I self-heal through that, while tossing my HoTs around and begin getting down to serious healing. This group, tank included, are taking just a massive amount of fast damage.

Wow, what the heck?

I’m running the Gearscore addon these days, NOT to judge people’s worthiness to be in my groups, but for just this type of situation. By looking at each player’s portrait in the party, I quickly see I’ve got a Paladin tank with a 5600 Gearscore, I’ve got two players, Death Knight and Shadow Priest with 3K GS (or under, actually, both were like right on the edge of 3K) who are both in the same guild, and a Warlock at around 4K.

By way of comparison, my healing gear on my Druid is pretty solid from Emblems and Heroic PoS/FoS drops, and it’s gemmed and enchanted properly, and I’m at 4.8K GS. I’ve even got a Frost cloak. So 5600 tells me that’s someone in pretty good raiding gear, and 3K tells me a couple pretty new level 80s in mostly Blues and a few crafted Epics or drops, and 4K tells me the player is working their way up nicely.

Notice I make no judgments on skill at all here. I’m simply making assumptions on current gear level, where it may have come from, and set a few expectations on where they might be in terms of DPS and survivability.

It’s handy, as I said, specifically for situation like this. Because the tank actually says, while on the first boss, “C’mon DPS, wake up, you suck.”

Well, no, actually, considering the comparative levels of their gear, they’re doing pretty damn good. I’m very impressed with what the Shadow Priest is squeezing out of her gear, that’s a player spot on.

But okay, whatever, we’re moving too fast for me to type.

Boom, we get down to the next boss area, we’re flying along, killing, clearing, boss goes down, moving on.

We get to the two large mobs just before the last boss, and one of the players, the Shadow Priest I think, is back a ways. They haven’t caught up to us, and wonder of wonders, the tank didn’t just run ahead and pull without them.

But he DOES take the time to get bitchy in chat.

“Are you coming or what? We don’t have all day, get over here.”

I take the time to reply, “Since we’re sitting here waiting and you’re bored, how about buffing me with Kings, since you never gave anyone Paladin buffs yet?”

Yes, that’s right. A tank too lazy, too rushed or too ‘leet’ to bother buffing the group, not even doing the new standard “I’m too good to give you the buff you want, I’m giving everyone Kings” like you see most of the time these days. 

I get my Kings, and he shuts up.

For now. Oh yes, for now. But there is still one more boss, and this pull will tell me something.

Gear or skill? Care or indifference? Phoning it in or in it to win it?

One pull. We’ll see.

We clear the two mobs, we all line up on the King, and the Paladin runs in to pull.

Here’s the test. How did he pull?

He ran straight forward to the boss and stopped dead right there, boss facing the entrance ramp, and stayed there.

This is the loser way to tank the final boss in Azjol-Nerub.

Whether you want to call it laziness, ignorance, or just-didn’t-give-a-shit, bad tanks run forward on the last boss and stop.

Why?

Pound.

The last boss casts Pound. It has a long cast time, and when it goes off, he casts it in the direction he had originally been facing when he started casting. Well, most of the time. Sometimes he bugs and does whirl around if his main threat target is behind him, as the tank is supposed to be.

Oh, and Pound’s key characteristic is it does a shitload of damage to anyone standing within an area the shape of a cone in front of him. It’s a cone-shaped AoE.

It’s almost enough, sometimes it IS enough, to kill cloth or leather wearing players.

By running forward and stopping right there, the tank is leaving it to everyone else in the party to be aware of the mechanic, and run all the way the long way around the boss to get behind him, and during that time, of course, only instant cast spells and attacks are going off.

And if the other players aren’t aware of the mechanic, then when Pound goes off, guess what? Everyone standing somewhere in front of the damn bug king gets a big facefull of WHAM!

So, the tank ran in. Stood there. Kept the boss facing the ramp.

Not everyone ran around to the sides and back like I did. The Death Knight and Shadow Priest did, the Warlock didn’t.

The Warlock’s health plummeted to about 500, and my existing HoTs quickly pulled him back up.

The Paladin, who had run through the boss to get behind him when Pound started casting, lols in Party chat.

He did it on purpose, the worthless little prick, hoping to kill someone else.

Why? Why would someone do something like that?

The run had been smooth. The enemies all died. Nobody ran crazy. Everyone stayed on target. There was no chaos. My heals prevented sillyness and unnecessary deaths.

So why?

I tell the tank in party chat, “How about pulling the boss to face away from the party.”

He announces that you can’t move the boss after he casts Pound.

Well, he has managed to be technically accurate, while at the same time avoiding the fact I didn’t say shit about moving the boss DURING the Pound, I said move the boss to “face away from the party”.

On the second phase, sure as hell, he does it again, and the Warlock eats it again, and doesn’t die. Again, the “lol noob” rolls off the tanks’ lips.

I’m making sure that if nobody actually gets one shot, nobody dies.

Yes, not even the tank.

Phase three comes around, I’ve whispered the Warlock, and the only person that eats Pound is… the Tank. Who immediately throws a Party chat hissyfit.

Guess what?

He moved through the boss during the Pound cast, and the boss did his sometimes-seen bug and whirled around before it went off, nailing the tank.

Amusingly enough, the Shadow Priest, Warlock and Death Knight had all moved to the side during the cast, and didn’t eat it.

Oh, yeah, I was at the side too. Of course.

What? Hey, of course *I* know about the bug, I blogged about it a year ago. Or something like that. Back when it really hurt to get hit by Pound. Like, in Neolithic times, with the dinosaurs and shit.

The tank is hot. He ran through and got hit by Pound anyway, and that’s not fair.

Now, here is the question I have up to this point.

I’m the only one who has said a word, besides the tank, on the entire run. Not a peep out of anyone else while the tank has acted like an immature child.

Do you think the silence was due to not caring what an idiot thinks, or because they were afraid that if they said anything to show they didn’t appreciate the attitude, the tank would leave and the DPS would have a collapsed run on their hands?

Do YOU adjust your behavior, do you hold your tongue when insulted or ridiculed, so you don’t piss off your tank and maybe have him leave you in a fit of childish rage?

While you think of that, I’ll wrap the run up with a fun moment.

When the boss falls, the tank first rolls the Recount log of Damage done through Party chat, and then says, “God you all suck, I’ve got top DPS and I’m the tank.”

I immediately reply, having been primed for this bit of asshattery since the first boss, “You are a Paladin tank with a 5600 GS. The rest of the DPS has nowhere even close to your gear level, so what is your point?”

At the same time, the Death Knight says, “Well, if I was on my other character my DPS would be a little different, lol.”

The tank replies, “Well, the Warlock has 4K.”

To which I reply, “You are a complete moron. A MORON. Goodbye!”

/leave group.

The Warlock has 4K? This is your answer for being a dick about being a tank with the highest DPS? And a Paladin tank as well?

“Oooh, I only outgear you by 1600 gear score, how come I’m top DPS, you must all suck.”

Damnit, there are days, as I said in guild chat, where I just want to bitchslap the world.

Or, in this case, I’d like every tank with this kind of attitude to line up single file, perform a left face, and I’ll freaking ride down the line on a Harley doing 70 with my hand outstretched, to SLAP THEM ALL!!!

Do you do it? Do you eat your feelings and allow yourself to suffer indignities in silence just for the sake of not bruising a sensitive tanks’ ego, challenging his asshattedness, so that you get your run finished?

I now return you to your informative MMO Champion/Blues Tracker game announcements, still in progress.

74 Responses to “Tales from the PUG: The Return”
  1. Naturalregis says:

    I pretty much call out anyone who’s being an ass. It probably is a lot less productive, but I’ve got no time and patience for jerkholes.
    .-= Naturalregis´s last blog ..I’ll hunt you to the ends of the instance! =-.

  2. bigbearbutt says:

    Chawa is right. You ARE a stalker!

  3. FaceTankingForFunAndProfit says:

    I am a 6K GS druid tank and I can tell you I don’t put up with anyone treating anyone else like crap in any groups I get in. I have been in groups where the dps wanted to boot an obviously fresh 80 dps (this latest one was on a H UK run for goodness sakes). I had to explain to the group that everyone needs to start somewhere and my dps and lack of taking damage would more than make up for them being undergeared. Heroics are very easy and everyone deserves a chance to gear up. It amazes me how poorly people treat each other.

    On a side note, I was playing my level 75 dps alt for the daily and for the second day in a row our group got a tank that was a moonkin. They queued as a tank and then refused to change spec (or didnt even have a feral spec). They also refused to leave. I am thinking they are hoping that someone will quit group and then we could requeue and have them pick dps. In other words they are getting an instant queue and don’t care that they might make the group angry by wasting their time. Anyone else seen this kind of behavior?

  4. Alii says:

    It may be passive aggressive, but I start to talk in party chat. I call them out, but in a snarky, sarcastic way that’s half humor and half bite. I’m not very good at it, but it makes me feel better, and they won’t usually leave. The worse they are, the snarkier I’ll get. I mean, they still ‘win’ by being the tanks, but no matter what I say they’ll still be jerks. Tanking is /fun/ and I love it, but it’s got all that weird psychological shit velcroed to it. Even /I/ get weird when I tank, though usually it’s just the ego rush. :)

    When I heal an arrogant player, even ones who aren’t tanking, I start playing yo-yo with their health and concentrate on the more polite players. Arrogant asshats drop WAY down my priority queue. If the tank just sucks, but isn’t a jerk about it, I’ll suck it up and go with it, even if he only eats half the dmg being dished out (cry).

  5. scaresome says:

    Actually, I don’t often get much of the “you all suck at dps” in the heroics.
    Today I did…
    The tank was uber-geared and a total jerk; plus he kept trying to race ahead and leaving mobs trailing back to us. A horrible experience.
    But I didn’t call him out for fear of him leaving; I just didn’t let it bother me. I wanted to get my run in at that point, just … get it over.
    Sad, huh?
    I think those three dots are called…ellipsis. Not sure tho….

  6. jtrack says:

    9/10 runs I do, no one opens their mouths. Sure, I usually tank, but I have to admit sometimes I do the same and heal just to avoid being in the fray of dps BS.

    As much as I like LFD, there is something inherently wrong either with players in their anonymity or EPEEN or something that I am not sure Blizzard can fix without some kind of player ranking system where players see that they are the problem. … you know, when you are in a restaurant and fart and everyone looks at you… yea,,, you… the game needs that social stigma.
    .-= jtrack´s last blog ..You Wanna Join My Guild =-.

  7. wavemancali says:

    I tend to speak up and get vote kicked. I wear it like a badge of pride.
    .-= wavemancali´s last blog ..Let Them Eat Cake =-.

  8. Sarabian says:

    My healer alt is a 4600GS resto shaman. I do pugs frequently and run into tanks like that frequently. What I do depends on the rest of the group. If it’s a solid group of decent people I’ll just keep my fingers quiet and heal until I can get my emblems and go.

    If it’s a group of children, I decide how big of a dick I’m going to be. Do I just not heal anyone and make up a lame excuse to pull them up short and hope for some attention to game mechanics? Do I heal up to the first boss and “accidentally” DC?

    Unfortunately, I do neither. I’m not childish enough to be able to live with myself if I stoop to their level. I sure do enjoy thinking about it, tho.

    I just tell them about it in plain, blunt terms. If they leave, oh well. If they get their shit together and play right, then I did everyone a favor.

    I have only seen the queue messed up by someone lying about their role once so far. A DK that was around 2200GS actually queued for tank. He had soloed all the way up to 80 (hit that day) and half his gear was leather or mail. We obviously didn’t allow him to tank with us.

  9. Ordaynis says:

    I have in fact just let them talk to get the run over with to get my 2 frost badges. I don’t ever remember this being an issue in BC. As soon as the LFD started this has become a problem. Before if you were a jerk on your realm people would remember the asshat and wouldn’t run with that person. Now your not held accountable you can tank up to the first boss in HoR and if the precious tank cloak doesn’t drop you leave group. These are sad times for what used to be an enjoyable experience.

  10. Minos says:

    This is why I don’t heal randoms on my paladin anymore. I got sick of being abused by tanks like this jerk. I still happily tank them on my druid, because I have a lot more power to push back at jerk DPS or healers (who seem much more rare).

  11. Tom says:

    The thrill of being a tauren will fade, once you realise that you don’t fit through any doors any more. I ended up grinding org to exalted _just_ so I could ride a wolf, because they’re smaller..

  12. Poneria says:

    Long post, my bad. Short comment first: it pleases me to know someone uses GS like I do. To gauge your overall first impression of whether this person is new 80 or already in raid gear or what. Not using it to judge the person, just the gear and what kind of effort you had to have had to get that gear. Thank you.

    Onto the question asked: I call them out the first time, and I make sure fresh 80s or new tanks or new whatevers are defended. I don’t know, maybe I still remember when heroics were hard, when getting the blue item was actually a big upgrade and not just another dream shard. I still remember being nervous starting healing, and I still sometimes feel bad if someone dies on my watch. Sometimes I let them die on purpose, but the ones I really did try to save and they just go *poof*. Tanking, it’s the same, now I tank like you — for friends only, not for strangers, because strangers have turned out more assholes than friendlies.

    I once dropped into a group to have some raid-geared mage yell at the tank for having sucky gear — quest blue & greens — and he wanted to boot him. It was heroic Utgarde Keep for fuck’s sake. BEGINNER HEROICS. He said that’s because you’re supposed to do regular dungeons, not heroics first. Dude, he’s 80, reg UK is like 72-73. The stuff that drops there will be worse or only a little better than what he’s wearing. When we told the guy to shove off (yes, we, others in the group agreed with me), told the tank he will do fine, the mage proceeded to then pull aggro pretty much every pull, therefore making it that much harder for the tank. Needless to say, maybe my Wild Growth hit him a few times in the beginning, but maybe he learned he was going to have to heal himself if he was going to tank himself.

    I don’t continue to discipline assholes past the troll line, because then I realize they’re being assholes just to get a rise out of people and get attention. I’m also not afraid to /ignore someone (even the tank) in the middle of the group if they are being offensive. I’ve done these heroics for what, two years now, in all three roles, there’s only so many pull strategies I haven’t yet seen. I’ve had groups start off with a rape joke, and they got /ignored and /reported without a word from me. I realize there’s a point where you can get someone to change their attitude and then there’s you’re just yelling at each other the entire instance and you come out with a feeling of crap. So I make sure the picked-on person knows they’re doing okay and try to be overall friendly. I tell the asshole that he’s being an asshole (sometimes I outright say it), but I don’t try to fix it for him. I’m not his mother and, by his attitude, neither his friend.

    If the asshole leaves the group and the tank is new or something, I offer to queue again to help gear him up. But half the time, the newbie leaves first to lessen the pain, I guess. And because of the X-realm, you can ignore but you can’t friend, and you definitely can’t whisper after they leave group, there’s no way to help out the target of assholery except /ignore asshole.

    FaceTanking said: “Anyone else seen this kind of behavior?”
    No, but I’ve recently seen since the Blizz news that tanking DKs will be Blood DKs, more and more Blood DKs who are specced Blood are tanking (in my groups, at least), but that’s about as much effort as they put into becoming a tank, and then they queue as tanks. They’re horribly squishy to heal (it’s not the healer’s fault nor the dps’s fault if you’re crittable), they have no sense of mob awareness for pulling, they don’t pay attention to directional mob abilities (poison spewing, Pound, etc.), they just SUCK as tanks. Highest gearscore in the world and the “right” spec doesn’t make an automatic good tank. It’s a step, but it ain’t the whole staircase.

  13. Russ says:

    Nice post, BBB. Thanks for sharing!

    I almost always go bear in heroics, because it makes it quick and painless. That way, knowing that I’m a nice person, I can monitor the situation (is the healer going to be able to handle this? etc.) and adjust how I pull. I’ve found that a positive, “we’re all in this together” attitude almost always works, no matter the dungeon.

    Occasionally I get a jerk melee dps that wants to run ahead and be a wise ass about things, but for the most part I can handle it. I can also handle moving through the dungeon at almost every speed, so if it’s a fat dps group, we power through. But if it’s a group with new people, we take our time and sometimes even have a little fun with it.

    One day last week I jumped into Nexus as the tank. Immediately the DK pipes up and says, “I’m gonna say right now, this is my 4th 80 and i just dinged a few days ago, so I’m probably gonna suck.” I said, “no prob.” Then the paladin says, “I just turned 80 too, I’m sorry.” I said, “LOL, no problem, I’m wearing dps gear from ICC and Frosts, so we should have the dps. Just do your best.”

    The third dps was a mage who kept quiet the whole time, and managed to put up the lowest numbers. Once again, NO PROBLEM! :P

    So we methodically worked our way through Nexus, the healer was fine, we did the fights the way you’re supposed to, and I watched the DK’s damage move from 1700 early on to over 2200 by the final boss. And he didn’t even pop AoD! Woot! Some people got loot they could use, and the general attitude was friendly.

    It was one of my favorite random heroic runs in a while, and it’s not because I smoked the rest of them in damage. It was because these people had the balls to admit their newness, and we pulled together and had a super clean, well executed run.

    It’s interesting that you say that you only tank for friends, and heal for PuGs. I feel most confident going in as a tank on my druid (even though it’s my off-spec), because I feel like I’m totally in control, while if I DPS on my very casual paladin, I feel intimidated, even though I know I can pull my weight and know the fights. I think it’s because I’m afraid of running into an abusive tank like the one you described….
    .-= Russ´s last blog ..Feral PvP experiments =-.

  14. Poneria says:

    @Poneria: crap, I can’t count, it’s been one year now, not two. Dec 2008 –> Dec 2009 (1 year) –> Apr 2010 (little over 1 year) (Sorry!)
    .-= Poneria´s last blog ..Cataclysm Warlock Stuff =-.

  15. Naturalregis says:

    In my defense:
    1) I have a blog feed reader. So, within seconds (or minutes) after a post it published, I will know.
    2) It’s extremely slow here at work presently. In fact, everyone other than myself has left already.
    3) Isn’t it nice to feel wanted?! Hrrrm?!?!
    .-= Naturalregis´s last blog ..I’ll hunt you to the ends of the instance! =-.

  16. Moofasah says:

    I am in the cities and have followed you for years. I am also a bear tank. I have a Harley. If you don’t mind riding bitch, I would be happy to drive so you can more effectively bitch slap those who need it.

  17. Tesh says:

    I was running a low level Wailing Caverns with my Druid at level 18 or so, alternating between caster and Bear form when I needed to regenerate mana and still attack for more than bonking baddies with a staff. Oh, and the other Druid on the run did the same thing. The tank whined about not keeping aggro, and the Warlock got uppity and asked if we wanted to tank.

    Yes, occasionally we stole aggro, but we’re bears, for crying out loud, we can take it. In the meantime, we killed stuff nice and quickly, and then popped back to caster form when we had mana. Still, much whining ensued, so I simply stopped popping into Bear form, and just waded in with my staff and bonked baddies when I was out of mana. The only whining after that was the occasional “OOM” from the healer, but things worked out.

    As a Bear, I can steal aggro, yes. When I can handle it, though, what’s the problem? Maybe it’s just me being naive or dumb, but when I can DPS better as an offtank Bear than a caster with a staff (all the while regenerating mana so I can get back to casting), it seems a very small price to pay to have the tank lose aggro on occasion when it didn’t matter at all to do so.

    …am I missing something?
    .-= Tesh´s last blog ..Wading Into Live =-.

  18. The Don says:

    Short time reader and tanker here…I have been playing for a couple years and this year I decided to start tanking…but since i started tanking I have that I love it…I now have a pally, DK, and Drood tank…all ICC geared….my point is that in the last year tanking I have done a lot of heriocs…(way more then you think or for me to admit too)…and I only tank…even if I am working on healing gear…I will tank it..(but I will ask if it’s ok to roll on healing/dps gear)…

    My point:
    I have seen so many asshats that it doesn’t surpise me anymore…I have found myself in groups where there is a whinny member…and for the life of me…I can’t get rid of them…I am surpised that wow hasn’t fixed the kick button…I mean it’s really hard for a dps to get in a group….I have tired the dps que LFD..and I have to say…the Que is horrible even at the best time for dps…and unbearable at the worst (probably one of the reasons I tank…lol)…and I feel guilty if I leave a group to find a new tank(unless it’s HoS…I would leave the group in the loading screen if Blizz let me)…I have had to do an entire Herioc with just 4 people because one of the dps just went afk…and we couldn’t kick him for 15 mins…with the new debuf for leaving a herioc no one is going to leave a group now….but atleast they can give me a chance to kick the ass back to the que…maybe the next group will tolerate him more…or maybe he will be humbled by it /eyeroll

  19. Tesh says:

    Oh, and when the Warlock stole aggro a few times later in the run, nobody asked if he wanted to tank, he just panicked. In spite of being next to him, perfectly capable of popping Bear mode and taking aggro in a jiffy, I let the tank run back to the group and handle it. Spiteful on my part, perhaps, but I didn’t care at that point. Let the tank handle it.
    .-= Tesh´s last blog ..Wading Into Live =-.

  20. The Don says:

    Love the site BBB…one of my Fav’s now

  21. Kattrinsaa says:

    Well, last night had a /facepalm moment. I don’t have the time to dedicate to wow that I foremerly did, but once in a while I do get a chance to play, last night, hopped on and the only guild member on at the time was busy in a run. I hitup the random heroic and landed in Forge of souls. I have run through the place one time as dps.. I told my group this and asked if someone would mark and rattle off strategies for bosses for me.

    We blow through to the second/final boss, the three faced floating head. I croak in a matter of a minute or so. I’m not the only one to die, the remaining three were a mage, a DK, and a healer (not sure what class now) who managed to whittle down the big ugly and take him out. I was up around the TOC grounds before entering the dungeon, so that’s where i ended up afterwards.. looked at the emblem vendor and found I was one shy of getting my 4pc set bonus, so.. a queueing I will go..

    I pull AN this time, and it’s like the second or maybe third time in my life i’ve been in there.. call me skittish, but I HATE spiders.. another completely fresh pug too.. I have a really twitchy mage, and an overzealous pally wanting to rush the run.. ok fine. I run through and thankfully I pay attention to BBB occasionally and remembered the bit about the skirmishers going for most distant target. We continue down to the giant spider, who the pally rushes into and starts whacking while all the little spiders are attacking it. I had always waited for the little guys to be killed before engaging the boss, but since the pally started it, I go growl away and we land the achievement.

    So I’m thinking, hey i’m not doing too bad, and we get down to the final boss and I run on in to snare him. oops, i didn’t recall the bit about a barrier of webbing. So since I ran right in to pull, the mage gets left outside to fend for himself. well, i wasn’t too clear on the fight mechanics so I just pummel the boss and try to maintain agro. Well we down the bug, but i felt bad that the mage got left out. and that was my /facepalm moment of the week.
    .-= Kattrinsaa´s last blog ..The Dark Emitting Diode =-.

  22. Chawa says:

    Woo for a good mood day! Isn’t it fun!

    re: “and I’ll freaking ride down the line on a Harley doing 70 with my hand outstretched, to SLAP THEM ALL!!!” —> We need to get your “lovely, beefy Tauren piece of awesomeness” a mechnohog!! Oh yeah!

    And yes, it was lovely to read something like this today! Great afternoon snack!

    In regards to your question, I shut up when I see stupid stuff mostly because I fail at running and typing at the same time. /sigh. And when I finally have a chance to type, I feel like I missed my chance to say anything.

  23. Saffron says:

    Horrifying PUGs are always fun to read about :D

  24. Len says:

    ‘Do you do it? Do you eat your feelings and allow yourself to suffer indignities in silence just for the sake of not bruising a sensitive tanks’ ego, challenging his asshattedness, so that you get your run finished?’

    I really try not to. I’d much rather call out a dick on their dickish behaviour and get booted/have them leave than have them think it’s OK to act that way. I’m stubborn, what can I say. I think I’m lucky in that my battlegroup is pretty good and I’ve rarely come across really rude players but when I do I WILL say something.

  25. Big Heals says:

    Here’s the plan. Put them on your ignore list. My ignore list is full of these types. I can’t control other people, but I can choose to never randomly group with that player again.
    .-= Big Heals´s last blog ..I am spending less time playing wow and I blame the Dungeon Finder =-.

  26. Maritime says:

    I feel the same as you BBB, I almost never tank PuGs, tanking is for friends. So when I use LFD its as a DPS warrior. My gear is pretty good, a mix of ICC10/25 and ToC25, couldn’t tell you a GS though, I prefer ElitistGroup. Generally I’m the top DPS in my PuGs, not that I’m all that great, its just the way it averages out. I’ve had a couple experiences where the tank has complained about carrying a low DPSr and threatened to kick, to which I respond along the lines of “I’m the one doing the carrying, I don’t mind, I won’t be kicking. The only DPS number that matters is the combined total”. Tank shuts up and we finish the run without a hitch both times.

  27. Druan says:

    I always tank my daily and try to use my powers for good.

    If someone is rude I initiate a votekick, otherways I just keep pulling. I basically understand if there’s any interrupting or stunning to be done, it’s on me.

    I wear half cat / half bear gear with ~6100GS so I end up doing 50%-90% of the total damage, but I am aware of the mathematical advantages I have so I don’t complain unless it’s to poke fun at guildies when they join in.

  28. Will says:

    I’ve stumbled upon the occasional jerk in a Dungeon, but thankfully it’s nowhere near as common as it seems to be for others, judging by the stories I’ve read. I Tank on my Death Knight, and he hit 80 a week or so ago. I have yet to do any Heroics on him, though. (I’m Defense capped for Heroics and have a good 22 or 23k HP unbuffed; I’m just waiting for the damn Black Heart to drop for me.)

    I long ago decided that I wasn’t going to be that egotistical Tank. I always say at least “Hello” when I first join a group. I always ask if everyone’s ready before the first pull and before each boss pull. While also keeping an eye on mana users’ bars, of course. When I was leveling, if someone happened to ding during a run, I always stopped so they could assign their Talent Point.

    Even before I was 80, I had people telling me to “gogo”, or pulling for me. I told a Warlock once that pulling for me, and before I was ready, no less, was a good way to get himself killed. He flat out told me he didn’t care. My healer (who I’ve done a lot with and have grown very comfortable with) stopped healing him and sure enough, even despite getting offed a few times, he kept doing it.

    I’m not going to insult people for “sucking” at DPS in a Heroic when they’re more than adequate for them. I’m not going to chastise new 80s for the inevitable fact that they’re new 80s. I’m going to try to set an example. Life is too short for this kind of childish, foolish bheavior.

  29. Lara says:

    As a dedicated healer, I see a lot of this kind of jerkface behaviour from both tanks and dps, especially in heroics. Sure, I like it if we can have a nice fast Azjol-Nerub or — dare I even say it — Oculus, for a quick and easy harvest of badges. But not everyone has equal gear, experience, or time, so even if we have to take things a little slower so that tanks who need a little time for threat and dps who aren’t sporting ICC 25 weapons and 4 pc. T10 can get everything down, I don’t mind taking a bit longer. I would much rather run a little longer with a slow but well-meaning and polite group who struggles, than a fistful of e-peen waving arsecaps who nerd rage at small delays and get pleasure out of mocking each others’ mistakes.

    I’m blessed enough to have the time to raid, and some friends to raid with. As a result, sure, I’m very much overgeared for 5-player heroics. But I can’t do them alone, and why would I want to? It’s just a little sad that some people are so selfish and impatient and take it out on the very people they need in order to get what they want.

    I try not to complain too much, but sometimes I just can’t help but snark a little in party chat. The jerks rarely get it, and it makes me feel a little better. And sometimes, it helps build a little camaraderie with the rest of the group, which never hurts when you think about how many deathly silent runs you get from LFD. So, maybe some good can come out of it after all.

    Still, what I’ve found out is that random group selection, combined with late-expansion gear inflation, has made a very unfriendly atmosphere for freshly-80 players. It’s especially awful for tanks, but even dps get a fair bit of unkind derision if they’re not keeping up with their purple-pixelled cohorts. On our server at least, LFD has totally destroyed the ability to make groups for 5-player dungeons in the old “advertising” way, except for tanks who you find selling their queue times to fulltime dps. So, I guess buttcappery is here to stay, as long as we’re stuck using the random group maker and no cross-realm friends list. :-(

  30. Hexis says:

    If there is someone just being an ass in the group I tend to just phase out, do my thing and totally ignore them. If a player starts attacking someone else in the group..i.e some well geared player turns on an evidently fresh level 80. I’ll stop pulling and have my say. Basically I won’t cop it, everyone has got to start somewhere and when I tank heroics I don’t have high expectations, I’m there to get my frost badge daily and have some fun doing what I love, hopefully giving random people a nice smooth run.

    Just something on gearscore, I’ve not used the addon and in the guild I am in we are not allowed to run the addon, however recently I started pugging ICC 10/25 as sometimes work clashes with the guild roster and I’d have to say the pug runs that my toon has made it into (meeting the gearscore/achievement requirements) have run really smooth, I’ve been a long time non raid pugger so it’s been really refreshing getting some good runs in new-ish content.

  31. xiani says:

    I pretty much call out anyone who’s being an ass. It probably is a lot less productive, but I’ve got no time and patience for jerkholes.

    This. I play for fun, the loot can wait. The 30-min debuff? I have alts…

    I’m actually quite brutal about it, regardless of what role I’m playing. And it only takes one moron out of 5 to turn 15-30 minutes of potential fun into tedious and annoying drudgery. My personal record is about 15 seconds to quit an obviously-going-to-fail group, and I invented the excellent term ‘gogo-tard’ in the process!

  32. Rijy says:

    “I love tanking with friends, but strangers? Yeah, not so much.”

    Feel the same way, BBB.

  33. Nimizar says:

    @Tesh: the reason losing aggro is annoying to the tank is that it takes away their control of the fight. Mobs that are hitting someone else won’t follow them if they move, and you’re forcing the healer to hit multiple targets rather than letting them stay focused on the tank. If it is something you’ve agreed to in advance, or if it happens accidentally through merely outthreating the tank as DPS is one thing, but switching into a form designed to gain aggro when the tank and healer aren’t expecting you to do so is something else. That said, this question will go away if Blizz follow through on the idea of making kitty available at an earlier level, as well as making mana management something that doesn’t really apply until later levels (40+).

  34. Voda says:

    Ditto on Tankin with friends. I didn’t finish AN in 9 min instead of 10, and an asshat pally calls out that “you’re the worst druid tank ever” /leave

    Didn’t even give me a chance to explain that I had to be somewhere in the 4th or 5th worst range at least, but cowardly bailed out instead. I had kid aggro right at the start and he got all jerkey waiting on me to settle it. They are out there…

  35. Navyr says:

    Had a tank like that in Gun’drak on my rogue, and he wanted to skip Ick, but me and my 2 guildies in the group, saw that the 5th person needed triumphs as much as we did, so the tank ran towards Gal’drah, and the 4 of us went to Eck, Ret pally tanking the little jumping guys, and the priest healing him, while me and the 5th dps.

    The tank just sat over at the 1 Rhino 3 troll pull, on the platform for about 5 mins, before he finally bailed, the next tank we got came in right before Eck, so he got to do a short run, luckily he had a 5k+ GS.

    When I am on any toon, including one of my 2 tanks, Bear or Pally, i will ask if people want to skip bosses, if so much as 1 person says they need emblems, we are doing all the bosses, that is how i roll, I try to be the Anti Asshat, oh and the other thing i don’t like, is when people think i need them to pull, the downside for them, is i am ALWAYS in vent with the other guildies in the run, and we won’t kick you, but you will not be healed through those pulls you feel the need to assist me with.

  36. LabRat says:

    I admit it, I’ve become a power-mad, controlling, bitchydin since I became that high-gearscore ICC raider pally tank- since I realized that this means I always have the power to make jerks’ lives more difficult than they can make mine. Want to gogogogo pull for me? Knock yourself out, champ. Between Righteous Defense, my regular taunt, and hand of protection I can almost always make sure that whoever I want to survive, does. If you value your time so much you’re not willing to put up with the pace the group can manage, I guarantee you that not only do I value mine less and not mind fishing for awhile, my queue will still be instant when the debuff wears off. I do NOT tolerate abuse of fresh 80s or anyone else that wasn’t causing a “problem” in failing to meet some entitled munchkin’s expectations of who’s good enough to be in a damn heroic. I try to make sure the douchebag always loses, but I do try my best to make sure our fight doesn’t punish those newbies much as well.

    I’m willing to tank randoms, but in practice I almost never do because there’s always at least one guildie online who needs the frosts and maybe needs the gear, and I’m happy to lend my queue to them. If it’s the folks that are gearing up their own tanks, my offspec is healer- and as long as the tank is a friend, that means I have near as much power as I do when I’m tanking to introduce consequences for needless prickery. I may not play a druid, but Momma Bear is definitely alive and well in me in what kind of treatment of others I’m willing to put up with.

    So yeah, I’m well aware that I HAVE THE POWAH- but I’m trying to use it for good rather than evil. And so far it’s actually worked out pretty well- the ass has always left first and the newbies haven’t.
    .-= LabRat´s last blog ..Wrath Is Wrapping Up- My To-Do List Runneth Over =-.

  37. Sarabian says:

    I am stealing the term “gogo-tard” as it is replete with awesome.

  38. Steevee says:

    “I tend to speak up and get vote kicked. I wear it like a badge of pride.” ~ Wavemancali

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.” ~ Edmund Burke

    Good for you Wavemancali! Keep up the good fight! I am the same way. Call out the asshats for being asshats. It’ll catch on. People play to have fun. If enough people quit putting up with asshattery, it will be the asshats, tank or not, that start to get kicked from groups.

    Oh… and in case I have not said it enough times in one post… asshat… ;)

  39. TJGypsy2 says:

    I refuse to sit silently when people are being unneccesarily dickish. I have been known, when I’m tanking, to slow the pulls down just enough to kick said dick before a boss pull if they refuse to stop. I have been known, when healing, to let dicks die. And I always, ALWAYS call out dickish behavior when I see it. Not so much because I think it will change the behavior of the dick in question, but mostly to let the victim of said behavior know that not everyone in the group feels that way. I cannot count the number of times I’ve gotten whispered after calling someone out with a “Thank you. I was starting to think maybe it WAS me.”

    Someone suggested the /ignore list, and I use that liberally so that I’m not exposed to their behavior again, but really, I feel I owe to the people who really are trying, and who maybe just don’t have the gear/skill/talent or whatever, to say something. To provide words of encouragement. If they seem open, maybe even advice. I cannot control or change the behavior of others, I know, but I CAN do my little part to make up for. And every time I get a positive response, I know I’ve done the right thing.

  40. Roobus says:

    I run gearscore because I like to see my _own_ score climb. Am I the only one?

  41. menglor says:

    You know what I love about your PUG posts BBB, we can all relate to them. there a guys in my guild who like to remind me that there are good pugs and bad bugs when similar to your story happen’s to me. But when I try to explain how bad it got, it seems a few say that it couldnt be that bad.

    I really feel like sometimes, I cant be the only one having MASS FAIL PUGS

    As for GS, I use it like you do, but I will say I am a bit more biast on some of the scores, When I roll in with my 5800 Cat, and I see the MT is a DK with just over 4k, I know its going to be a rough ride. if its a warrior with 4k, I am less nervous.

    I have also used it to tame my DPS if I see the healer is 4500, CAT DPS pulls agro if the Tank cant hold it. so, I use it to gauge how crazy I can go.

    anyway, I love the pug story’s reminds me that I am not the only person has bad ones.

  42. Earthsong says:

    No. But Im rare. and I admit its harder on a DPS. When you wait an hour to get your emblems there is a feeling you ‘have’ to put up with this garbage. Thats also why some twitchy people freak when your slow. They have been waiting longer than they want to for a group so go nownownow.

    The only solution i can see si to make every class a tank/dps or heal/dps. With a wider range fo tanks this wouldnt be an issue.

  43. Killinglight says:

    My gf(holy Pally ms/ret os) and i have an understanding…if the tank is an ass we let him pull and die. On my battlegroup tanks = instaque, so if tank gets pissed and leaves oh well we either 4 man it and i go tank or we get another. So to all players that ridicule people with low gs i say go to hell you had a shitty gs and prolly got handed gear so you would stfu in g-chat

  44. Nimizar says:

    @Roobus: yeah, I run it so I have some idea where I should *expect* to be in terms of relative power (e.g. while gear is only part of my problem with kitty DPS, the 1.4k GS difference between my hunter’s 4.9k and the druid’s 3.5k DPS set is still fairly significant, and it isn’t surprising that her 3.7k tanking and 3.9k healing sets don’t pull off the same tricks as my better geared guildies – but she’s plenty capable of getting a run through most heroics, so long as the healer/tank is at least reasonably capable). As BBB posts, it’s also useful to get an idea of where someone else is at in the gearing up process.

  45. Athenrein says:

    I admit, I don’t say anything. I’m the quiet dps. It’s partially because I’m still trying to improve my dps–I’m a cat, so it’s tricky and I just try to concentrate. I’ve had some bad experiences, but I usually run with guildies–at least a healer, often a tank too. I’m still insecure enough about my dps that I’m scared to run with strangers.

    I don’t use gearscore right now but after reading this I think I will, as a way to compare my dps to other dps based on GS. Maybe I’m not as bad as I think I am.

  46. Khane says:

    Although that tank was a complete ass, he was right he shouldn’t be top dps with a lock there, unless he tank just using righteous fury in ret gear and spec, and also why were the SP and lock were in pound range? that’s just, mmm, mmmm, not right?. But beside that, yeah the tank was a moron.

  47. Angie says:

    hehehe, so easy to see yourself in that story. Ive gone so many dungeons (often as tank) with the dps and healers whining and being complete asses, i simply pick up their slack and dont comment on it, before i usually explode with somey our a complete moron and have no clue what you actually are doing /leavegroup at end :P

    because I tried once explaining a tank (i was on my ret pally) what he was doing wrong (hey,i wanted to help..) and he simply ended up trying to kill me on all pulls, and just generally being an ass. When i then quickly realises he is after me i start not dpsing at all, just bubbling and running along after with the mage (wich were the 1 not wanting to kill me and also quite annoyed). This results in he trying even more. He pulls lots of adds and hs…… WTF?! bubbling my self and helping the mage we survived and the tanks teleport in (with his healer buddy..) and we continue in HoL. In the end he starts saying i suck and had no clue about tanking and really just being a dicktwat all trough. The run ended with my listing everything he did wrong, bubbling and watched them kill the boss and leave.
    (they also tried to kick me out 3 times with reason: nab (this was from the tank and healer))

    i must say random dungeon can sometimes be very fun, and you meet cool ppl (also if you move servers in same Battlegroup you meet on old guildies), but its so many awful ppl in LFG aswell :/

  48. Zahraah says:

    I defended myself against a badley attitudinal tank when I was healing a HOR, no one came close to dying – no wipes.. but because I dared to call him on his mouth – and defend myself – he initiated a kick, took a little while for it to go through – i think they needed convincing. So yeah.. probably did me a favour by kicking me. If I see someone getting roused unfairly in a lfg i will defend them. I

  49. Tim says:

    I’ve started /votekick early and often based on attitude. I have NEVER kicked on ability, but I’ve kicked 5k dps ppl back with 5k dps in a 5 man was “holy shit” because he was being an ass to a new level 80 for their dps. Hell, I’ve /voted the tank before in situations just like the one you describe. One player can make a run MISERABLE, and it’s just not worth it/

  50. xmolder says:

    Honestly, it really depends on the role I have in the group at the time. I’ll hold my tongue if I’m on my warlock (who, as amazing as she is, IS still wearing cloth) if it seems like the tank would pull and leave. If I’m on my paladin, I have the gear, spec, and ability to tank, so I’ll speak up. Even on my hunter (who still has a gorilladin) I’ll tell people to pipe down and drop a consecrate, gorramit, I don’t care if the mage used polymorph instead of, I don’t know, blizzard. Even managed to 2-man SM:Cath the other day with my gorilla tanking after the tank had a fit.

    But if it’s a DPS who pull aggro? And die, then go “lawl gg tank/healz?” I’ll tear ‘em a new one. Had a rogue in an RFC this morning, actually, who pulled aggro and argued that he shouldn’t stop attacking. “if the healz didn’t suck, id b alive.” Tank quit, healer quit. I made a point of mentioning that no paladin gets consecration before 20, sorry, so he needs to watch his aggro very closely. The amazing thing is, he agreed and apologized (too little, too late, clearly) and was nice to the next group! It gave me a little hope. And I stopped snapping at people after that.

    I never really considered if I do it to make sure I get the run finished, or if I just respect tanks more for taking on a (generally) more difficult job. But the fact that it’s still an issue at all kind of bothers me.

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