Comments on: In the Shadow of Osama

By: Tsudrats

Tsudrats — Sat, 07 May 2011 01:30:50 +0000

Mhorgrim, I’m neither taking your comments out of context nor denigrating Big Bear’s blog any more than any other poster is. In fact both Helsitars comments and mine reinforce his point that the man’s death is a significant symbol. We are not saying that it is meaningless.

By: Tsudrats

Tsudrats — Sat, 07 May 2011 01:26:13 +0000

I’m not entirely sure it is possible to comment on an issue such as this in any way that is truly non-judgemental. In commenting you instantly take a side and thus do make a judgement just as you also have, in this case commenting is a form of judgement. You don’t have to have lost someone in the events of the past ten years to be affected by events.

By: Boocat

Boocat — Sat, 07 May 2011 00:42:40 +0000

For me, growing up in a Military family, having served, and now married to a Soldier, I took a sense of pride in Osama’s death. He has held this country hostage for 10 long years. Children have grown up with him as the boogie man. The celebrations in the streets were a reflection of American pride and I see nothing wrong with it. Did I feel like cheering? No, because we still have a long hard battle ahead, but this was a big step. I’m battle weary and could only wish that this would be the end of war. But I know it isn’t so no I’m not celebrating.

We’ve become so politically correct in this country that our 1st Amendment rights to free speech have been practically revoked. No one is allowed to speak what they feel anymore, and this will have long lasting harmful effects. It will also tear this country apart in the end. Big Butt Bear’s commentary was well thought out and spot on in my mind.

So, I will not apologize or blame folks for dancing in the streets celebrating. I won’t apologize for the actions of that brave Seal Team, and I won’t apologize for my thoughts either. We have witnessed the death of a monster, unfortunately the battle continues on.

My deep thanks go out to all who serve and the families that serve along with them. May the Goddess watch over them all.

By: Mhorgrim

Mhorgrim — Sat, 07 May 2011 00:39:51 +0000

@Tsudrats ~ Please dont take what I had to say out of context. Do not forget my initial statement of respect if not agreement for the poster’s thoughts. I only state that judgment is inappropriate. I have worked with many muslims. I understand their historical plights across the board and in some ways empathise with the issues they have. I understand what drives people to violence. I am only saying that while perhaps crass, people felt they finally had a victory over the shadow that kept them in fear. Above all, you must understand that I abhor the thought of killing. But when necessary there isnt a second thought about it. An entire generation on all sides has been at war because of the ugly actions masterminded by one man. I don’t express emotions in this, only perceptions of what I see. What if say Osama sought political action instead of extremist action? What if he never planned the killing of some 3ooo civilians? We may have hated what he stood for, but we would allow him to speak as he pleased. This war would have never happened had not our own civilians been drawn into it. I understand your thoughts. They have merit, I simply disagree with you taking out of context what I was trying to comment on. I know Americans are seen as ugly arrogant Imperialists. In some ways I really have no arguement against those sentiments. But for the people who lived in fear who did not take up arms, they have the right to express them selves in NON LETHAL ways. But let us table this. You and I will disagree and I respect you for your views. Big Bear was only trying to express in his post what many have felt for over a decade. I ask only that we can respect one another and simply agree to disagree so as not to denigrate the purpose of the original Blog post.

By: Boocat

Boocat — Sat, 07 May 2011 00:23:04 +0000

@Tsudrats And again, he never said you had no right to comment unless you had loss someone. The key word was “JUDGE”. No where does he tell anyone to not comment unless they had suffered a loss.

By: Boocat

Boocat — Sat, 07 May 2011 00:20:32 +0000

@Helistar Where did he say shut up? The statement and I quote was “I am saying that untill you have suffered the loss of friends and family from a murdererr, you have no right to judge us.” Key word being JUDGE, not “shut up”. He also states throughout his comment that he respects freedom of speech even if he disagrees.

Please read carefully.

By: You Are Not Bad! « Tike's Best Friend

You Are Not Bad! « Tike's Best Friend — Fri, 06 May 2011 21:46:54 +0000

[...] mean, it isn’t like he’s Osama Bin Laden or anything. Actually, this is one of the best write-ups/understandings as to why some rejoicing [...]

By: Tim Dahl

Tim Dahl — Fri, 06 May 2011 21:36:22 +0000

I appreciate your outlook greatly. I won’t always claim to agree, but you’ve made some good points. I thank you for that. I live in the world of questioning motives; and I found myself asking the same questions that you’ve addressed. I don’t desire to glory in the killing of another human being. But, I do accept that there is a threshold which can be reached by my bad choices where my timely demise is real justice.

Did that make sense? I’m sure there is a better way to say it.

Also, while some people may have been celebrating in a blood thirsty kind of way, I feel that many more were celebrating out of the relief you talked about.

Thanks for your writing.

Tim

By: bigbearbutt

bigbearbutt — Fri, 06 May 2011 14:38:46 +0000

You are very welcome. I think your reply to my reply to your comment was very revealing… Wait a minute, let me go back and make sure I’ve counted right.

By: Tsudrats

Tsudrats — Fri, 06 May 2011 12:47:33 +0000

Mhorgrim, if we follow your logic, then the only people who should be commenting or serving are those who lost friends and family on the 11th of September. The fact that actions were taken not only in the name of Americans but of everyone who is identifiable as a Westerner does give each and every one of us the responsibility to hold an educated opinion on events pre and post Sept 11 2001. There is little in response to BBB’s blog that belittles the actions of our soldiers, rather people distinguishing between relief at the removal of someone whose activities have been abhorrent and sadness that anyone had to die in the first place. The brutal reality is that this is the death of yet another person in an ongoing conflict, that, as your research should tell you yourself will find it’s origins well before 2001. Helistar is right, his death is largely symbolic. There is something to learn from the words of Mustafa Kernel Ataturk in 1934 in response to the conflicts in and around Gallipoli …

Those heroes that shed their blood
and lost their lives..
you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.
Therefore rest in peace.
There is no difference between the Johnnies
and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side
here in this country of ours.
You the mothers
who sent their sons from far away countries
wipe away your tears.
Your sons are now living in our bosom
and are in peace.
Having lost their lives on this land they have
become our sons as well

He also said … Lasting peace is sought, it is essential to adopt international measures to improve the lot of the masses.

I am relived that there is the possibility that an ugly chapter in our world may be closing and extremely concerned that the way it has happened may lead to further targeting of citizens of any number of countries, not only America. The day we can find the peace he spoke of is the day I will celebrate as then there will truly be something to celebrate and we can truly commemorate the sacrifices of our children.