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	<title>Comments on: The tanks all said wha?</title>
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	<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/</link>
	<description>Feral Druids in World of Warcraft</description>
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		<title>By: Suxxy</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58324</link>
		<dc:creator>Suxxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[+1

The best compliment I got from a healer was on my alt Warr tank in H UK, it went something like (who am i kidding, i ss it, it went exactly like):
&quot;wtf i go from having hsit tanks with crazy good gear scores to one with less than 5k that takes f*** all damage and can hold threat&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1</p>
<p>The best compliment I got from a healer was on my alt Warr tank in H UK, it went something like (who am i kidding, i ss it, it went exactly like):<br />
&#8220;wtf i go from having hsit tanks with crazy good gear scores to one with less than 5k that takes f*** all damage and can hold threat&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58223</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 00:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a tank and Subtlety rogue, I don&#039;t see how this is anything but good. Will it cover for people who overpull or pull for the tank? No; the tank will, as always, have to choose to do that. Will it remove a real mechanic from the game? No; threat management is supposed to be obsolete, but it has been forced on players by gear differences. Will it let DPS who outgear their tanks and tanks outgeared by DPS do their actual jobs and not their Vanilla-era jobs? Yes, and it will be glorious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a tank and Subtlety rogue, I don&#8217;t see how this is anything but good. Will it cover for people who overpull or pull for the tank? No; the tank will, as always, have to choose to do that. Will it remove a real mechanic from the game? No; threat management is supposed to be obsolete, but it has been forced on players by gear differences. Will it let DPS who outgear their tanks and tanks outgeared by DPS do their actual jobs and not their Vanilla-era jobs? Yes, and it will be glorious.</p>
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		<title>By: Gharg</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58081</link>
		<dc:creator>Gharg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 03:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58081</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this change is long overdue.

After Ulda, I took a few months off druid tanking and focused on my mage instead.  When I returned to try for a few Heroic Runs, I was so woefully less geared than the ICC raid ready players that I could not hold aggo no matter how focused, well read or experienced I was.

Unfortunately, this led to me dropping tanking for the rest of Wotlk and I was only able to pick it up again once Cata emerged.

If the best way to get pre-raid gear is through VP farming heroics, and our community is still experiencing long queues waiting for tanks in LFG, then this change can only be seen as a positive.

It means new players trying tanking at 85 and new undergeared alt tanks have one less thing to be abused about in groups, which might actually mean more people enjoying tanking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this change is long overdue.</p>
<p>After Ulda, I took a few months off druid tanking and focused on my mage instead.  When I returned to try for a few Heroic Runs, I was so woefully less geared than the ICC raid ready players that I could not hold aggo no matter how focused, well read or experienced I was.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, this led to me dropping tanking for the rest of Wotlk and I was only able to pick it up again once Cata emerged.</p>
<p>If the best way to get pre-raid gear is through VP farming heroics, and our community is still experiencing long queues waiting for tanks in LFG, then this change can only be seen as a positive.</p>
<p>It means new players trying tanking at 85 and new undergeared alt tanks have one less thing to be abused about in groups, which might actually mean more people enjoying tanking.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharaltan</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58074</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharaltan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[forgot to add. 

Tanking is not hard, its really not. Its pathetically easy now in raids. The myth that tanking is stressful or hard or even interesting anymore needs to be dispelled.

Shannox - main tank just has to hold aggro and move from traps...yawn.
Beth - main tain goes up top, holds boss, drops down, repeat. repeat. taunt swap....yawn.
Rhyo - aoe add that dont need tanking, tank big add for 30secs. die of boredom. tank boss in phase 2 for 20secs.....yawn.
baelroc - hold aggro on boss, oooooh thats hard. Yawn. yawn. tab out, read wow blogs, tab back, loot.

Alys - ok, I like this one, multi phase, have to interrupt occasionally, have to position adds, and make them eat grubs, dodge tornadoes, taunt swap. Dps challenge (easy bit still nice idea) for tank. Good fight.

Major - stand in middle aggro boss, um, oh wait thats it. Everyone else has to stack and spread and whatever, do I? nope, stand there al fight.....yawn.
Rag - tauntswap, occasionally move from fire, and meteors.....yawn.

Is this good raid design? is is bollox.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>forgot to add. </p>
<p>Tanking is not hard, its really not. Its pathetically easy now in raids. The myth that tanking is stressful or hard or even interesting anymore needs to be dispelled.</p>
<p>Shannox &#8211; main tank just has to hold aggro and move from traps&#8230;yawn.<br />
Beth &#8211; main tain goes up top, holds boss, drops down, repeat. repeat. taunt swap&#8230;.yawn.<br />
Rhyo &#8211; aoe add that dont need tanking, tank big add for 30secs. die of boredom. tank boss in phase 2 for 20secs&#8230;..yawn.<br />
baelroc &#8211; hold aggro on boss, oooooh thats hard. Yawn. yawn. tab out, read wow blogs, tab back, loot.</p>
<p>Alys &#8211; ok, I like this one, multi phase, have to interrupt occasionally, have to position adds, and make them eat grubs, dodge tornadoes, taunt swap. Dps challenge (easy bit still nice idea) for tank. Good fight.</p>
<p>Major &#8211; stand in middle aggro boss, um, oh wait thats it. Everyone else has to stack and spread and whatever, do I? nope, stand there al fight&#8230;..yawn.<br />
Rag &#8211; tauntswap, occasionally move from fire, and meteors&#8230;..yawn.</p>
<p>Is this good raid design? is is bollox.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharaltan</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58073</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharaltan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Its a retarded change.

I tank and dps on my feral druid. I like threat, if should matter more not less. The game is descending into a race to cater to the most blinkered, tunnel visioned playtstyle.

An encounter should involve a tank fighting for threat, the dps doing their best dps, whilst both managing aggro so that the tank keeps the boss whilst still allowing the enrage to be beaten. I  like that cower is necessary on the pull for me, it should be necessary after that as well.

The problem is not threat. Its bliz messing up game design, its the stupid levels of gear inflation which means dps ramps up like it does. It happened with healing in wrath, and the knock on effects on tank gearing and health, its happening with dps in cata with knock on effects on threat.


As a long time tank or dps, I just fail to see why this is necessary, or desireable. Yes it makes things easier, and simpler, but I play this for fun, not to be bored senseless.

Then again, I&#039;m not a dps whore. I dont care about topping meters. I like fights like rhyolith where my dps sucks, but the important job (pre mega nerfs) was to stear the boss. In dps races, like Baelroc threat should matter to make the encounter interesting, because its tediously boring to tank or dps.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its a retarded change.</p>
<p>I tank and dps on my feral druid. I like threat, if should matter more not less. The game is descending into a race to cater to the most blinkered, tunnel visioned playtstyle.</p>
<p>An encounter should involve a tank fighting for threat, the dps doing their best dps, whilst both managing aggro so that the tank keeps the boss whilst still allowing the enrage to be beaten. I  like that cower is necessary on the pull for me, it should be necessary after that as well.</p>
<p>The problem is not threat. Its bliz messing up game design, its the stupid levels of gear inflation which means dps ramps up like it does. It happened with healing in wrath, and the knock on effects on tank gearing and health, its happening with dps in cata with knock on effects on threat.</p>
<p>As a long time tank or dps, I just fail to see why this is necessary, or desireable. Yes it makes things easier, and simpler, but I play this for fun, not to be bored senseless.</p>
<p>Then again, I&#8217;m not a dps whore. I dont care about topping meters. I like fights like rhyolith where my dps sucks, but the important job (pre mega nerfs) was to stear the boss. In dps races, like Baelroc threat should matter to make the encounter interesting, because its tediously boring to tank or dps.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaethir</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58050</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaethir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[and by &#039;this article&#039; I mean the blue post]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and by &#8216;this article&#8217; I mean the blue post</p>
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		<title>By: Kaethir</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58049</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaethir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read this article and had a great, resounding feel of &#039;Meh.&#039;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this article and had a great, resounding feel of &#8216;Meh.&#8217;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Caerlin</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58047</link>
		<dc:creator>Caerlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 10:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Minor nitpick: I think only the increased threat multiplier has been hotfixed. The Vengeance changes will be &quot;In an upcoming patch&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minor nitpick: I think only the increased threat multiplier has been hotfixed. The Vengeance changes will be &#8220;In an upcoming patch&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Blasfemur</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58043</link>
		<dc:creator>Blasfemur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 05:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You ask where the panic and rage came from, but I can hardly believe you&#039;re really all that shocked.  You&#039;ve been playing this game for some time now, and you know better, Triple B.  The WoW community is nothing if not consistent.  Rage-induced, panic-stricken, nihilistic, arrogant, ego-driven, and wry -- and that&#039;s on a good day!  We&#039;ve not gotten to racist, homophobic, selfish and cruel.  I&#039;d say we&#039;re lucky that all we got this round is a little anger and worry over this change.  There&#039;s much, much worse that this community is capable of dishing out.  I do believe in the existence of a relatively silent majority of players who aren&#039;t all these negative things we&#039;ve come to know, and I thank you for being amongst the more vocal of those who wear the white hat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ask where the panic and rage came from, but I can hardly believe you&#8217;re really all that shocked.  You&#8217;ve been playing this game for some time now, and you know better, Triple B.  The WoW community is nothing if not consistent.  Rage-induced, panic-stricken, nihilistic, arrogant, ego-driven, and wry &#8212; and that&#8217;s on a good day!  We&#8217;ve not gotten to racist, homophobic, selfish and cruel.  I&#8217;d say we&#8217;re lucky that all we got this round is a little anger and worry over this change.  There&#8217;s much, much worse that this community is capable of dishing out.  I do believe in the existence of a relatively silent majority of players who aren&#8217;t all these negative things we&#8217;ve come to know, and I thank you for being amongst the more vocal of those who wear the white hat.</p>
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		<title>By: persistence (arygos)</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2011/08/17/the-tanks-all-said-wha/comment-page-1/#comment-58031</link>
		<dc:creator>persistence (arygos)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 00:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=4363#comment-58031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BBB,
I won&#039;t be all doom and gloom. I&#039;m still playing my tanks and enjoying it. But, I do fear where tanks are going.
I used to be able to distinguish myself as a good tank - &quot;he picks up mobs when you CC&quot;  &quot;he has good threat Gen and picks up loose mobs that get away&quot;.  &quot;He may not be the best geared but he picks up the fights quickly and you wont have a problem&quot;.
Well, with the most recent changes, I fear I wont have any gauge at all for my skill. Making mitigation part of a rotation leaves a lot to wonder about. Right now, the only difference between me and a bad tank is gear and simply knowing the fight. Cooldown management is also super important, but there are no tools to say whether I&#039;m using them properly or not. If I die, I can&#039;t tell if it was the healer or me. I mostly look at my log or recount death log and see the immediate things that happened around the time I died. &quot;Did I get enough heals?&quot; &quot;Did I die slowly over 12 sec or quickly in 3 sec?&quot;  My fear is with the recent cc changes, the recent threat changes, and upcoming mitigation changes, its going to be very difficult to determine when someone is a good tank and when someone is a bad tank.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BBB,<br />
I won&#8217;t be all doom and gloom. I&#8217;m still playing my tanks and enjoying it. But, I do fear where tanks are going.<br />
I used to be able to distinguish myself as a good tank &#8211; &#8220;he picks up mobs when you CC&#8221;  &#8220;he has good threat Gen and picks up loose mobs that get away&#8221;.  &#8220;He may not be the best geared but he picks up the fights quickly and you wont have a problem&#8221;.<br />
Well, with the most recent changes, I fear I wont have any gauge at all for my skill. Making mitigation part of a rotation leaves a lot to wonder about. Right now, the only difference between me and a bad tank is gear and simply knowing the fight. Cooldown management is also super important, but there are no tools to say whether I&#8217;m using them properly or not. If I die, I can&#8217;t tell if it was the healer or me. I mostly look at my log or recount death log and see the immediate things that happened around the time I died. &#8220;Did I get enough heals?&#8221; &#8220;Did I die slowly over 12 sec or quickly in 3 sec?&#8221;  My fear is with the recent cc changes, the recent threat changes, and upcoming mitigation changes, its going to be very difficult to determine when someone is a good tank and when someone is a bad tank.</p>
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