I don’t know what’s worse, enchanters needing on items only to disenchant them, or non-enchanters needing on an item that no one really wanted and that could’ve been disenchanted via the system, because 8G in the hand is better than a possible ~100G in a roll against 4 other people – or just to deny them the chance on that money.

The guild was farming everybody up to Raggy when this happened; we never did get him, but we were getting close. The only fight we have any trouble on is Beth, and mainly due to inexperience of the healers and mana problems. LFR gear would be a big help for us… but I no longer have the patience to put up with the asshattery. I used to tank and heal constantly on my druid and shaman, but now I just can’t stand being in a non guild group. It seems to have gotten worse…

Let me tell you a story. On my most recent LFR run, 1st wing, a shoulder token drops which I didn’t need. I passed on it. The the leg token drops, which I did need but lost the roll. The winner of the leg token (who already had the 397 legs, surprise) openly offers to trade it for the shoulder token.

What incentive is there to try and be fair to others in the LFR?

There’s nothing wrong with the loot system.

We’ve been using Need before Greed for years, and it’s been mostly fine. The introduction of Need+ was heralded by angelic choirs, and everyone rejoiced. So, why is LFR the one place that everyone is screaming?

Like you said, it’s the people – the community. This is the first time we’ve seen the widespread effects of combining all the servers into a giant pool, and what we’ve discovered (now that we’re all together) is that there’s a lot of people out there who behaving anarchistically. If they could stab you in the back and take things out of your bags, they would. If they could slip into your spellbook and take your mounts, they would. If they could reach through the computer, empty your bank accounts, and make themselves a swimming pool of money, they would. They simply don’t care.

So, again, the loot system isn’t the problem, it’s that the game infrastructure enables this behavior, and these people feel no guilt about it. (Or if they do, they do it anyway.) Now the rest of us have that age-old choice: accept that we’re moral people in an amoral world (of Warcraft) and just suck it up, or play by the rules of the lowest common denominator and sacrifice our morals just to get by. Sure, we can queue with a group (and avoid the problem) or with a few people as vigilantes, stealing the gear and giving it to the poor, but that doesn’t really resolve the problem.

The real problem is that we’re being matchmade and Blizzard isn’t taking responsibility for who they pair us with (except in the most extreme circumstances.) It’d be like if you signed up for a dating service that could send you out to dinner with an axe murderer. Good plan? With the server community going the way of Dalaran and Shattrath, we need to acknowledge that community rules are no longer enough. World of Warcraft needs a self-policed matchmaking system that allows us to rank other people on a few factors (such as behavior, skills, and pleasantness) so we can start identifying the people like us. Even a simple system that biases toward how you’re perceived would go a long way toward fixing the problem, as now you actually have to care about your reputation. (Steal something you don’t need? Well, guess what. Next time, you’re probably going to end up in a group of people who do the same. Maybe you’ll like that!)

One more time, just for good measure: the loot rules aren’t the problem. The matchmaking is.

Progression is about having the best gear you can to down the bosses. Part of that is going in to LFR, since it gives higher quality stuff than the heroics ever will. Only 6 iLvls, but that can and does make a difference stat wise.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the game’s loot rules that Blizzard “needs to” or “has to” fix! Bliz could’ve left everything open, and not even bothered with the bonus. The system is fine. Something drops, everybody has the chance to win it. Nothing. Is. Broken. In. The. System.
What’s broken are the players. Greedy people, be it for gold, offset pieces, ignorance, being an ass, ‘helping the new guildie’, whatever the motivation is, it’s the players that cause the problem. And then “they’re” crying for Blizzard to “fix the game”. The game ain’t broken, son, your buddies are!

It’s that attitude that’s also around in the real world. As a society apparently we’re too stupid to look at what’s best for all, we’re all out for personal gain, and then we cry and whine and beg “The Government” to regulate, fix, curb, and get involved in every little aspect of our lives. And then we bitch because “The Governmnet” does micromanage us.

Sure, in-game there are no repercussions among anonymous strangers, and you could argue that limitations set by Blizzard would keep “those” people in check. But still… :(

As to loot system, I always liked to be a pug in the runs where the master looter held on to everything until after the first 4 bosses (or some other point). And *then* you could roll on items. Kept people around after ‘Gunship’, and you wouldn’t have to roll on things “for future trades”.

There is a fix. Its a simple one. Make LFR loot non-tradable. It only need apply to LFR loot. And Blizzard can just flat refuse to address mis-clicks. People should pay more attention! And while your at it, make it worth 0 gold. Remove the motivation to click on loot you don’t need any more. You can still roll on off-spec gear. And people can still do the ‘asshat’ rolls, but I think community censure against this will be more effective.

Of course, it’s still sitting in my bank right now, but if (who am I kidding? WHEN) I go back to playing, the money will be there and so will LFR.