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	<title>Comments on: Customer Service &#8211; Admit Nothing, Deny Everything</title>
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	<description>Feral Druids in World of Warcraft</description>
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		<title>By: Xew</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73408</link>
		<dc:creator>Xew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having been subject to (just a couple weeks ago with a hotmail account) hacking, I don&#039;t understand the companies side of things.  For instance, my hotmail account had a secondary account attached to it from China.  Did the guy at MSN who got the request to change my password and associate the account with another from China not stop and go &#039;hmm, this seems fishy.&#039;  I know for damn sure when I tried to get it back, it was a bloody nightmare proving I was who I said I was.

I can only assume either hackers have a lot more information about me than I give them credit for, or the first time someone requests a change of password is smooth sailing, and only when you want it back does it go to hell.

I think, if I were in charge of cyber security at a gaming firm, and someone changed their password, and associated the account with something foreign, and then within 24 hours a request was submitted to change it back - I&#039;d be lenient - it&#039;s far more likely the original request was a hack, rather than being a jerk and say &#039;are you sure you didn&#039;t move to China?  come on, prove you didn&#039;t.&#039;

Argh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having been subject to (just a couple weeks ago with a hotmail account) hacking, I don&#8217;t understand the companies side of things.  For instance, my hotmail account had a secondary account attached to it from China.  Did the guy at MSN who got the request to change my password and associate the account with another from China not stop and go &#8216;hmm, this seems fishy.&#8217;  I know for damn sure when I tried to get it back, it was a bloody nightmare proving I was who I said I was.</p>
<p>I can only assume either hackers have a lot more information about me than I give them credit for, or the first time someone requests a change of password is smooth sailing, and only when you want it back does it go to hell.</p>
<p>I think, if I were in charge of cyber security at a gaming firm, and someone changed their password, and associated the account with something foreign, and then within 24 hours a request was submitted to change it back &#8211; I&#8217;d be lenient &#8211; it&#8217;s far more likely the original request was a hack, rather than being a jerk and say &#8216;are you sure you didn&#8217;t move to China?  come on, prove you didn&#8217;t.&#8217;</p>
<p>Argh.</p>
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		<title>By: Herr Drache</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73403</link>
		<dc:creator>Herr Drache</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bristal,

I understand your point when shopping - and I agree, you should buy where you got the best service or information. Don&#039;t use the floor-techs/sales-reps and buy at acme.com ;)

However, Azeroth or Tattooine, they&#039;re in the customer service market. The game is their service, as is their support. It&#039;s not as if I pay money for the CDs/DVDs, I pay money to get a service, and the provided service is the game. If I have problems with the game, then the support staff is supposed to help me, because, well, if I can&#039;t get their service (play the game), then I&#039;ll stop paying, I might rant, and odds are that at least one other person will stop being their customer as well.

I understand that a lot (most?) complaints at that level are from &quot;real&quot; shady people who just want to see how far they can abuse the game. The problem are the &quot;real&quot; conned people who really are clueless about why they got banned etc. Tech support, customer support, end-user support, they&#039;re all extremely frustrating and challenging areas (see Sam&#039;s comment) - and trust me, I know first hand - including changing jobs because of the stress. The trick is how to handle those incidents. That&#039;s what sets companies apart, and in the end, makes or breaks a customer-service oriented business.


On another note, one of the most successful &quot;sweep problems under the carpet&quot; businesses would probably be Rolls Royce. From what I understand, there are no confirmable incidents on publicly accessible records of any Rolls ever having any kind of trouble or malfunction ;) Rumors say, though, that in the illusionary event that there may have been a hiccup, equally illusionary help arrived extremely quickly and effectively, so fast as if things never happened :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bristal,</p>
<p>I understand your point when shopping &#8211; and I agree, you should buy where you got the best service or information. Don&#8217;t use the floor-techs/sales-reps and buy at acme.com ;)</p>
<p>However, Azeroth or Tattooine, they&#8217;re in the customer service market. The game is their service, as is their support. It&#8217;s not as if I pay money for the CDs/DVDs, I pay money to get a service, and the provided service is the game. If I have problems with the game, then the support staff is supposed to help me, because, well, if I can&#8217;t get their service (play the game), then I&#8217;ll stop paying, I might rant, and odds are that at least one other person will stop being their customer as well.</p>
<p>I understand that a lot (most?) complaints at that level are from &#8220;real&#8221; shady people who just want to see how far they can abuse the game. The problem are the &#8220;real&#8221; conned people who really are clueless about why they got banned etc. Tech support, customer support, end-user support, they&#8217;re all extremely frustrating and challenging areas (see Sam&#8217;s comment) &#8211; and trust me, I know first hand &#8211; including changing jobs because of the stress. The trick is how to handle those incidents. That&#8217;s what sets companies apart, and in the end, makes or breaks a customer-service oriented business.</p>
<p>On another note, one of the most successful &#8220;sweep problems under the carpet&#8221; businesses would probably be Rolls Royce. From what I understand, there are no confirmable incidents on publicly accessible records of any Rolls ever having any kind of trouble or malfunction ;) Rumors say, though, that in the illusionary event that there may have been a hiccup, equally illusionary help arrived extremely quickly and effectively, so fast as if things never happened :)</p>
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		<title>By: Bristal</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73401</link>
		<dc:creator>Bristal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 18:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do not disagree in spirit with how poorly these customer service debacles were handled, and how upsetting that can be. I was also hacked and banned in WoW, and it took multiple e-mails and phone calls over 5 days to resolve. What I do disagree with is the assumption that customers have a right to innocence until proven guilty. Absolutely not so.

Businesses have a right to deny service for nearly any reason short of government imposed discrimination laws. Your constitutional rights do not follow you into Azeroth or Tattooine.

Customer service is an operating expense to a business. A very expensive one. When future profits are uncertain, customer service is going to be cut.

Poor customer service sucks and can sink a business. Remember that the next item you go to several electronics stores, pumping their paid staff for demos and information, then ordering the equipment from an internet clearing house to save 10 bucks. We reap what we sow.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not disagree in spirit with how poorly these customer service debacles were handled, and how upsetting that can be. I was also hacked and banned in WoW, and it took multiple e-mails and phone calls over 5 days to resolve. What I do disagree with is the assumption that customers have a right to innocence until proven guilty. Absolutely not so.</p>
<p>Businesses have a right to deny service for nearly any reason short of government imposed discrimination laws. Your constitutional rights do not follow you into Azeroth or Tattooine.</p>
<p>Customer service is an operating expense to a business. A very expensive one. When future profits are uncertain, customer service is going to be cut.</p>
<p>Poor customer service sucks and can sink a business. Remember that the next item you go to several electronics stores, pumping their paid staff for demos and information, then ordering the equipment from an internet clearing house to save 10 bucks. We reap what we sow.</p>
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		<title>By: Rowtan</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73393</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowtan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah .. I can&#039;t remember the name of the other addon installer now - I do remember that I preferred it though, especially to begin with because in the early days the Curse installer really buggered up my addons a few times.  Now, of course, the fact that we can&#039;t remember the name of the competition speaks volumes, and they have it right (although I wasn&#039;t happy about the way it completely took over my computer to do an upgrade, earlier today).  

But looking at their wowstead forums, they still don&#039;t appear to have a particularly thriving customer base - there aren&#039;t a lot of posts on there, and you can inevitably find someone complaining about a problem they have brushed under the carpet for months.  Their CS guys main weapon of choice is the locking of threads (when they don&#039;t delete), which is really not the way to go - especially when they seem to wield that power with such gusto.

Personally, I&#039;m glad I bit the bullet and moved on (luckily just before I was pushed) - I just feel really sorry for the guys who hung on in there.  I&#039;m tempted sometimes to go and tell them there is an alternative, but I know that would be inviting more aggravation from the Curse/Wowstead guys, so just have to hope they work it out for themselves, in time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah .. I can&#8217;t remember the name of the other addon installer now &#8211; I do remember that I preferred it though, especially to begin with because in the early days the Curse installer really buggered up my addons a few times.  Now, of course, the fact that we can&#8217;t remember the name of the competition speaks volumes, and they have it right (although I wasn&#8217;t happy about the way it completely took over my computer to do an upgrade, earlier today).  </p>
<p>But looking at their wowstead forums, they still don&#8217;t appear to have a particularly thriving customer base &#8211; there aren&#8217;t a lot of posts on there, and you can inevitably find someone complaining about a problem they have brushed under the carpet for months.  Their CS guys main weapon of choice is the locking of threads (when they don&#8217;t delete), which is really not the way to go &#8211; especially when they seem to wield that power with such gusto.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m glad I bit the bullet and moved on (luckily just before I was pushed) &#8211; I just feel really sorry for the guys who hung on in there.  I&#8217;m tempted sometimes to go and tell them there is an alternative, but I know that would be inviting more aggravation from the Curse/Wowstead guys, so just have to hope they work it out for themselves, in time.</p>
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		<title>By: Grimmtooth</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73391</link>
		<dc:creator>Grimmtooth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 15:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73391</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Culturally speaking, Curse offers up a whole new level of FUD (re the competing addon installer that I can&#039;t quite remember), to the point that when they WERE unjustly accused of something (hosting viruses on the site), they crippled themselves with their bass-ackward attitude.  They&#039;re ridiculous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Culturally speaking, Curse offers up a whole new level of FUD (re the competing addon installer that I can&#8217;t quite remember), to the point that when they WERE unjustly accused of something (hosting viruses on the site), they crippled themselves with their bass-ackward attitude.  They&#8217;re ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: Rowtan</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73389</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowtan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 12:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I had a remarkably similar problem with Curse, after they took over http://www.wowstead.com/- which is where, at the time, we had our guild website.  Wowstead had been a lovely host - Curse just turned customer service around completely.  Even when I pointed out they had accidentally released details of ALL of their customers in their standard website control panel, I got nothing.  When I complained about other problems with their sites (in bug fix forums, etc, simply looking for work-arounds), my posts got deleted.  When I asked why, I got banned from their forums; when I asked why I was banned from their forums they said I had posted against their ToU, yet refused to tell me how.  They then banned me from my own guild website (luckily, by then, I&#039;d managed to transfer most of it to another host) and from their ticketing system.  To this day I still don&#039;t know why I was banned.  I&#039;m pretty damned certain I did nothing against their rules - I was excessively polite, I had spent hours on their forums helping other customers - several times I received harrassing messages from their customer service team, only to receive apologies from another member afterwards.

I realise this is slightly OT - but it is a horrible feeling.  You start doubting yourself, you get very stressed and paranoid, you start wondering if you are a horrible, nasty, poisonous individual as they have suggested.  It affects your online life, personal life and even work life.

Customer Service people should understand that they are there for that purpose - to provide a service to the customer.  If they can&#039;t do that, then they&#039;re in the wrong job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a remarkably similar problem with Curse, after they took over <a href="http://www.wowstead.com/-" rel="nofollow">http://www.wowstead.com/-</a> which is where, at the time, we had our guild website.  Wowstead had been a lovely host &#8211; Curse just turned customer service around completely.  Even when I pointed out they had accidentally released details of ALL of their customers in their standard website control panel, I got nothing.  When I complained about other problems with their sites (in bug fix forums, etc, simply looking for work-arounds), my posts got deleted.  When I asked why, I got banned from their forums; when I asked why I was banned from their forums they said I had posted against their ToU, yet refused to tell me how.  They then banned me from my own guild website (luckily, by then, I&#8217;d managed to transfer most of it to another host) and from their ticketing system.  To this day I still don&#8217;t know why I was banned.  I&#8217;m pretty damned certain I did nothing against their rules &#8211; I was excessively polite, I had spent hours on their forums helping other customers &#8211; several times I received harrassing messages from their customer service team, only to receive apologies from another member afterwards.</p>
<p>I realise this is slightly OT &#8211; but it is a horrible feeling.  You start doubting yourself, you get very stressed and paranoid, you start wondering if you are a horrible, nasty, poisonous individual as they have suggested.  It affects your online life, personal life and even work life.</p>
<p>Customer Service people should understand that they are there for that purpose &#8211; to provide a service to the customer.  If they can&#8217;t do that, then they&#8217;re in the wrong job.</p>
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		<title>By: Grimmtooth</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73366</link>
		<dc:creator>Grimmtooth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 04:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really, readers of blogs like Consumerist are familiar with such trite phrases as &quot;we&#039;re taking this seriously&quot; ad nauseum. What it comes down to is that talk is cheap. Unless EA/Bioware (and Activision/Blizz, and so forth) act on these trite talking points, it&#039;s all smoke and mirrors.  I genuinely hope that such episodes lead to actual change in a company&#039;s policies and culture.  Seeing first hand how hard it is to change a bad tech culture, that&#039;s a daunting challenge! NOT insurmountable, however.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really, readers of blogs like Consumerist are familiar with such trite phrases as &#8220;we&#8217;re taking this seriously&#8221; ad nauseum. What it comes down to is that talk is cheap. Unless EA/Bioware (and Activision/Blizz, and so forth) act on these trite talking points, it&#8217;s all smoke and mirrors.  I genuinely hope that such episodes lead to actual change in a company&#8217;s policies and culture.  Seeing first hand how hard it is to change a bad tech culture, that&#8217;s a daunting challenge! NOT insurmountable, however.</p>
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		<title>By: Matty</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73361</link>
		<dc:creator>Matty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2012 23:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe the apology comes in the form of change? Kind of like a lie by omission, this is an attempt to reconcile by omission? Interesting philosophical debate. Maybe Blizz subscribes to my mother&#039;s mission statement, never apologize, never explain (but loves us anyway)?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the apology comes in the form of change? Kind of like a lie by omission, this is an attempt to reconcile by omission? Interesting philosophical debate. Maybe Blizz subscribes to my mother&#8217;s mission statement, never apologize, never explain (but loves us anyway)?</p>
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		<title>By: obscurefox</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73357</link>
		<dc:creator>obscurefox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2012 21:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I remember when Blizzard dealt with hacked accounts badly, when they did give my account back my main&#039;s ( a priest)  gear was gone and instead of the exact replacements of items, there was an assortment of random greens from the GM in the mailbox mostly of the whale and of the falcon, umm thanks, better then nothing I guess! My hunters, they never even got anything. ( although I did invent a fun  form of self entertainment pretending they had been robbed and stranded , killing stuff and collecting gear from naked to get their lives back and  stuff , I still will  strand some unused alt, vender their gear and play this  game with myself.)  But one weird benefit was a 30 something druid with a regular mount and an epic mount in her bags, (couldn&#039;t even ride them yet) oddly not naked that I hadn&#039;t made on a server I didn&#039;t play on sitting in Tanaris?! (level 40 plus zone) .

So I certainly believe you about how it was.  Blizzard had improved greatly I have no complaints lately I&#039;m really glad Battlechicken got their incident resolved , one can feel pretty distressed and frustrated in that kind of situation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember when Blizzard dealt with hacked accounts badly, when they did give my account back my main&#8217;s ( a priest)  gear was gone and instead of the exact replacements of items, there was an assortment of random greens from the GM in the mailbox mostly of the whale and of the falcon, umm thanks, better then nothing I guess! My hunters, they never even got anything. ( although I did invent a fun  form of self entertainment pretending they had been robbed and stranded , killing stuff and collecting gear from naked to get their lives back and  stuff , I still will  strand some unused alt, vender their gear and play this  game with myself.)  But one weird benefit was a 30 something druid with a regular mount and an epic mount in her bags, (couldn&#8217;t even ride them yet) oddly not naked that I hadn&#8217;t made on a server I didn&#8217;t play on sitting in Tanaris?! (level 40 plus zone) .</p>
<p>So I certainly believe you about how it was.  Blizzard had improved greatly I have no complaints lately I&#8217;m really glad Battlechicken got their incident resolved , one can feel pretty distressed and frustrated in that kind of situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Rizamp</title>
		<link>http://thebigbearbutt.com/2012/06/21/customer-service-admit-nothing-deny-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-73347</link>
		<dc:creator>Rizamp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2012 15:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebigbearbutt.com/?p=5146#comment-73347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have zero problems with Blizz&#039;s CS these days. In Wrath one of my friends was in Iraq and got hacked. His account info was changed, his charactor had its name  changed and was farming in Icecrown everyday. When I noticed, I emailed my buddy, he was able to get it fixed just over email from the sandbox. That was fairly amazingly good CS, and is one of the reasons I&#039;m still a customer. While I don&#039;t doubt that they used to be bad, at least they learned from their mistakes and fixed the problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have zero problems with Blizz&#8217;s CS these days. In Wrath one of my friends was in Iraq and got hacked. His account info was changed, his charactor had its name  changed and was farming in Icecrown everyday. When I noticed, I emailed my buddy, he was able to get it fixed just over email from the sandbox. That was fairly amazingly good CS, and is one of the reasons I&#8217;m still a customer. While I don&#8217;t doubt that they used to be bad, at least they learned from their mistakes and fixed the problem.</p>
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