My Hunter is now level 90, and I have a Dynamic Duo.

First thing Cassie asked me was if I am going to get started on my dailies.

Just thinking about it has me considering quitting the game.

No, really.

I play to have fun, you know? It’s been said before by many people concerning many aspects of this game over the years, but it’s true. I already HAVE a job.

When I play a game, what I like are intuitive mechanics. Things that make sense.

Factions and purchasing gear upgrades made sense to me in Cataclysm. Now? Not so much.

Look, Factions. I get Factions. Reputation with faction, of course. The more I do to develop our friendship, the more you come to know and trust me, let me inside your lives and your culture, and become willing to share your most special secrets and/or treasure with me.

I get that system.

You get a group or culture, put together a list of neat stuff they have, and they’ll only hand it out to their friends. The more they like you, the higher the quality or special nature of the things they’ll share.

No problem. It makes sense. My son can understand this concept just fine.

Now, it’s gone off the rails.

I’ve always seen Faction reputation gear as being similar to Boots of Elvenkind. 

Boots of Elvenkind were fancy magic boots that let you move silently, but only elves wore them because they were cultural. It wasn’t to the point of any Elf cutting down a human on sight if they found you wearing the boots, but it was close (depending on your D&D campaign world, of course).

It’s not that Boots of Elvenkind were all that powerful… but they were very desirable in other ways, because they were restricted in who could have them. To be a non-elf wearing them represented that you were a special little elf-friend, and they let you wear their fancy boots.

They didn’t give those out to just anybody, you were kind of a big deal. 

That’s how I’ve always looked at Faction gear. That having it represented you were kind of a big deal with those folks.

The conceit of the game is that we are each special heroes. Yes, all 8 million of us.

We’re supposed to pretend that there are not really 8 million other heroes in WoW. We are to quest and adventure as though each of us is special, and when we go forth to slay Deathwing or whatever, we acquire a supporting cast of lesser heroes to go on the raid with us.

Faction gear represents you becoming a special hero to that cause or Faction, building your reputation with them into a special relationship until you get into that ‘friend with benefits’ category, where nothing is too good for them to show their appreciation, up to and including gifting you with Boots of Elvenkind (or their comparable thingie).

Which is why I feel disgusted by the current iteration of Factions.

So, I get to grind rep (and as shitty as people are being to each other over Golden Lotus dailies, it is miserable grinding, no other word for it) and a large portion of my reward is the ability to… buy gear that I also have to grind Valor and Justice Points for?

Yes, there are other things you can get, mounts and stuff. Recipes. Some gear. The stuff that makes sense.

In my opinion, Valor and Justice rewards have no place whatsoever in a gated Faction shop list. It’s stupid. It doesn’t work well for playing flow, and it doesn’t make sense in terms of reputation with the group.

Factions worked fine before. The more they like me, the nicer the quality of the things they are willing to give me access to. At the Exalted level, they are willing to grant me access to cultural treasures, which is what epics were supposed to be.

Where does turning them into VP and JP vendors come into that? So, they’ve got all this uber epic gear, and you’re Exalted with them… but no, you can’t have it. Nyah nyah. We know we love you long time, and you’ve saved our yak very nicely, but we still want to see you hand over some Valor before you can have our special stuff.

Valor points and Justice points ARE ENOUGH OF A GATE ALREADY.

Just stupid. Offensively stupid.

I like that you can do daily quests and get Valor as an alternative means to raiding or running heroics, but there was no reason to take all the JP and VP gear and scatter it to the four winds. Hur hur.

Wrath had vendors all over the place, and I thought it was stupid then too. You shouldn’t need to use Google to figure out who has the damn VP gear.

Cataclysm got this right. One room, a couple vendors, one stop shop to spend your VP and JP, and turn in tokens for gear upgrades.

Reputation quartermasters should have only had special, cultural stuff that they hand over (for small, token amounts of lucre) once you’re that level of friend. Mounts, Tabards, Pets and some special recipes, special items.

My plans right now are to avoid all of them. Pretty much out of spite. I look at the system, the way it feels like a step backwards in punishing players, and I get a strong feeling of “fuck you, Blizzard”.

I don’t even want to run my second farm.

I was thinking of running Scenarios as well as Heroics to gear, have fun, etc. Latest thing I’m hearing is, you don’t get any gear from Scenarios. Maybe a random blue once in a blue moon, but nothing to ever count on.

I ran a scenario last night, it was great fun. I’ll do them anyway, I just won’t allocate as much time since I do need to get geared, too.

It would have been nice to do stuff in Scenario groups that was fun while also improving my gear for our raids, but I guess that would have been too much like giving us something for free. If you like it, it’s not work, right? And you gotta work, and suffer, and pay, pay out your ass, if you expect to get something in this game.

I guess. That’s how all of the little pieces feel like they’re fitting together in this expansion. Lots of awesome story elements, neat quests, beautiful zones, pet battles of yahooness, all this great stuff…

And then a faction, daily quest and gearing system designed by Torquemada.

You know what would improve my entire attitude about all of this?

If daily quest mobs were changed in the following way;

  1. They could not be skinned.
  2. They did not drop loot.
  3. Anyone who tags a mob gets kill credit for that mob, even if three hundred people all tag it in overlapping Consecrations before it dies.

Those quests are bullshit, mainly because of scarcity of mobs, slow respawn timers, five billion competitors, and the inevitable cocksuckers running in and pulling 10 mobs and slowly tanking them down while everyone else with a slow cast or melee range pull stands and watches because, you know, fuck them I hope they choke on the mobs.

From a designer point of view, why punish us? Just let the quest targets be shared kills by thirty people all blasting everything in sight, and let everyone who had a hand in dealing any damage at all get credit for ‘em. Screw it. DOGPILE!!!

Some people are massive assholes, just accept it and plan accordingly. It will cut down on a lot of the frustration, I promise.

I know all I’m doing is griping, but yeah, that’s how I feel. Once I’ve dinged 90, I see all this time sink stuff, how it’s arranged, all the layers and levels and links, where they buried your upgrades, and I lose interest.

Screw it, Clone Wars Adventures looks pretty cool.

50 Responses to “Color Me Unthrilled”
  1. Mark says:

    Blessing of Kings had an interesting post about this this morning (http://blessingofkings.blogspot.com/2012/10/a-disconnect-on-valor-gear.html) basically theorizing that we, as players, have a different set of expectations about factions and valor gear than Blizzard does. He’s suggesting that perhaps Blizzard means for factions/valor to be pretty much optional, which is certainly supported by the fact that justice gear is a lower ilvl than what you get in heroics. It might just mean that we, as players, need to get more into the “do what’s fun for you” mindset of Pandaria, and stop looking at the giant list of things we NEED TO DO.

  2. JdJdJd says:

    Serious question here – not a troll. Have you considered other games? Change is hard I know. There were some parts of WoW I really loved and I was completely, totatlly attached to my toons. Really really hard to walk away from all the time and sweat and tears etc.

    But my husband and I are now playing GW2 and you know what? We like it.
    A lot.

    Just saying. Please don’t take this as an “I hate WoW” post. Or a fanboi “my game is better then your game” piece of stupidness either.

    • bigbearbutt says:

      Well, I think about it, no lie. But as I’ve said before, despite everything, WoW keeps bringing more that I love than not.

      One thing game makers, even Blizzard, need to to keep in mind is that yuo’re only as good as your last update. Pandaria has a lot to it, a lot that is good, at this point all I’m objecting to is how punishing it feels by design. After that long of a well played beta test, it’s gotta be intended.

  3. Ooom says:

    I’m still playing wow – but playing GW2 at the same time and it is pretty cool. But – that being said I’m just tooling around in WoW with the wife. No real desire to raid in this expac – since my guild falling apart coupled with the obnoxious daily quest grind have pretty much sealed my disinterest in gearing up.

    So, basically, I’m right there with you. I have 2 alts running through the leveling grind, and I’m pretty unexcited about hitting 90 (well except for the flying part) as once I do – basically what is left is a painful, miserable, not even close to fun ride through the Golden Lotus grind of doom.

    That being said, the dailies for the tillers and the celestial dragon folks (can’t think of the faction name) are well done, and not really all that grindy – so I mostly enjoy those.

  4. Luney says:

    I can agree with all of your comments, except the hate on tanks slow aoe-ing down a group of mobs. Why the hate? You’ve tanked, you know a tank can kill 3 mobs as fast as it can one. I round up as many mobs as I can because it is too bloody slow to kill them one at a time. It’s my trade off since a dps spec can kill 1 mob much faster than I can.

    And my second spec is heals, so that’s not really an option. Either way, don’t hate on people for making best use of their specs to do their dailies. The real problem here is that Blizz has designed the dailies in a way that encourages players to combat each other rather than working together. I heartily agree that anyone who tags a mob, at the very least for dailies should get credit. GW2 does it this way and it works out very well and encourages players to help each other.

    • bigbearbutt says:

      I absolutely object to people who go to an area with very few mobs, that many people need, and gather everything up to themselves, and while fighting those still shoot out taunts and shields to try and get any respawns too… while others just stand around wishing they could have one.

      I’ve see it. I’ve watched right over Cassie’s shoulder, and I don’t care what the excuse or justification is, it’s an asshat move. And yes I have been a tank for years, and no I didn’t pull that crap on other people. I’d pull three and hold them as long as there were other mobs around. This goes well beyond that.

      • Theodoxus says:

        It’s too bad all the questing areas/mobs can’t be phased like the Tiller quests for Weed War, etc. It’s kinda funny watching other people fight phased mobs.

        I mean, I understand this is a communal game and part of the community is being able to interact with other players – but if Blizz is willing to phase some of the quests, why not all the dailies that require killing mobs?

        I’ve watched tanks exactly as BBB describes – grabbing everything in sight and mowing them down. For some quests, it’s no big deal (Goat meat, for Tillers, for example) it’s a fairly decent drop rate and respawn rate – including a good sized area (though one time there were 5 tanks going on at once – that took a while before they were all done and gone) but others, like Mushan shoulders… there was a worgen warrior who rounded up every mushan he saw and just slowly whittled them down all the while charging across the grass to tag any respawn. I just left.

        Sadly, this is still non-CRZ. Once Blizz removes that from Pandaria, questing will be an utter joke – both for leveling and dailies. At that point, if nothing else has changed (for the better – because we all know it’ll change) – I’m gone.

      • Luney says:

        Ok, I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. I’m not trying to tag mobs to add to my “pile” before other people can get to them. I do think that’s rude. I just try to get at least three rather than one at a time since it’s painful to do dailies as a tank otherwise.

  5. Alburet says:

    Grindy rep is Nat Pagle rep, 3 special fish that are soulbound, unique, daily fish. for 500 rep a pop. Yeah about that wtf. The only thing he has is a fishing at that acts as a 10 min lure for 150 fishing. Thats the worst grind rep in mists. I might maybe get there by the end of pandaria if I fish more then I ever have before but otherwise not so much. As far as the other reps dear gods it takes over 2 hours to do them all.
    I will do them with my main because I’m a rep whore and I cant help myself. But my alts haaha only the ones I need for their specific crafting and thats it, oh and tillers for expanded farms but then thats it.

  6. JdJdJd says:

    I cancelled my WoW sub last night. So it was final for me (at least for now). I had to look at it in tems of was I having fun or not. Truthfully, I stopped having fun there a long time ago and haven’t logged on in ages. Did not bother to get MoP. Is there stuff there that I would enjoy, almost certianly. But it was so NOT fun for a long time I just don’t have any desire to go back.

    I guess this was the bottom line question for me. Not “could I have fun?” but “could I have fun doing what I want to do?” The answer ended up being no at the time. I didn’t want to end up in a situation of “I cant’ do what I want so I’ll make do with other stuff”.

    As far as GW2 goes, it’s been pretty non-stressful. LOL. WoW definitely has stress sometimes. At least for me. I think removing the monthly fee help a lot with that. No pressure to log in and get my money’s worth. Also – there is not much of a barrier to playing with my friends. One of our group is taking his sweet time leveling but we can still do a dungeon togehter even though the rest of use are 20 levels above him with no penalties and the stuff is still challenging (for me anyway).

    Does this mean I’ll never go back to WoW? no. I will probably at some point. Been playing off and on since launch. I can’t see never going back, but suprisingly I don’t miss it at all right now. And I get to vicariously enjoy the fun stuff I’m missing through people like you who share!

    LOL>.thanks for providing a space for me to let out some thoughts. Maybe one day I’ll actually get a blog of my own. Always thought about, always figure I really have nothing to say. I like YOURS. :)

  7. Theodoxus says:

    I haven’t touched Golden Lotus rep yet – now I don’t think I want to. 5.1 promises to help, with accelerated rep gain on alts, but other than Tillers and Anglers whom I’m exalted and revered with, that won’t help me. (though getting farms faster will be nice for my crafting alts for the friggin’ songbells).

    But yeah… I’m really not sure what the reps are actually for in this xpac – I haven’t goggled them. My care factor is pretty low.

    BTW, you can pick up quests for scenarios. Most are just gold, but a few offer item rewards. I’ve done four so far. I’m a total slacker…

    Maybe GW2 is for me. /shrug.

  8. Wintur says:

    I agree about the VP and JP vendors being scattered. I personally prefer the way they did it at the end of wrath. All the tiers of gear separated onto different vendors, so you didn’t have to sift through all of it to find what you want. I agree that you shouldn’t have to grind faction rep, to spend the JP or Valor that you also have to grind. They may have added more casual aspects to the game, but at the same time they seem to have taken heroics and Raids away from the truly casual players again. If you only have an hour to play, a few nights a week, you can forget about raiding now.

    • Luney says:

      There are VP and JP vendors at Niuzao Temple in Townlong Steppes that have all of the gear from all factions combined. So there is a place for one stop shopping, but it is way out of the way. Why they couldn’t put them, along with the pvp vendors in the main city is beyond me.

  9. Thromean says:

    I’m not a hardcore raider anymore. I’ve done Klaxxi dailies once. I enjoy healing and tanking in dungeons. I’ll fudge my ilvl with cloth drops that no one else wants to get into LFR and do my raiding that way. I refuse to spend more than 10 min grinding out x number of kill/collect Y quests. Like you said i have a job, I grind it out from 8-5 every day. (Well when im not reading your blog anyway). My gear will come, just slowly. In the meantime, I’m finishing out the quests from the zones I haven’t done and enjoying the story and scenery.

  10. Torcthaim says:

    I’ve been wondering if maybe Blizzard, after reading all the complaints of “there’s not enough to do” over the end of Cataclysm, decided to use rep as a way to limit the speed that people can blow through the content. There’s certainly so much to do as you hit 90 (so much that I shudder at the thought of levelling alts now) that I /boggle when I see people already complaining that they’re bored with Pandaria because there’s already nothing to do. Now, Blizzard can ask “have you finished levelling factions”, “have you done all the scenarios”, “how are challenge modes” etc. Scenarios and Challenge modes are the two REALLY cool things I looked forward to in the expansion but I’m one of those feeling pulled to do rep just to help get me to a high enough ilvl to hit LFR. The “fun” of a rep grind shouldn’t feel like the wall between you and being able to relax and enjoy the game. And don’t even get me started on rep combined with BOP crafting items (Spirits of Harmony) making it a pain in the neck to be a crafter. (Although I suspect that emphasis is making crafting profitable again for some profs at least.)

  11. Ngita says:

    Step 1. Check guid, anyone starting x dailies soon. Step 2, /1 anyone starting x dailies, Step 3 I have not dared but I have not done it personally, just random invite people at the quest npc’s.

    I have a lot of sympathy but their are things to make it easier. I dinged on my first 90 alt and for now all I can stomach is random heroic/random scenario and tillers. Certain dailies cycles are better then others. Best? August celestials, white tiger temple, Worst August celestials niazhou temple and you don’t get the 4 elites quest. No quest means no ox charging around clearing safe lanes and killing your quest mobs for you. Skip every time.

  12. Rades says:

    Bear, have you tried the Klaxxi dailies? Not to grind JP or rep, but just to do them? I actually enjoy most of them, and plus you get the special Klaxxi buffs that make you like a superhero, so they’re (in my opinion) pretty enjoyable actually. Sometimes you kill some Mushan or turtles (ho hum), but other times you’re using a flamethrower on spider eggs, or riding a big giant Kunchong around crushing swarms of Mantid. Plus I really like the bug people.

    (Granted, some people absolutely loathe the Klaxxi dailies. To each their own! You might want to check them out at least once or twice – since the dailies change each day – and see if you like them.)

  13. Bom says:

    I’ve got a suggestion — I got out of raiding and even running dungeons at the end of Wrath. All I did in Cata was pvp and built an RBG team. It’s slow right now (half of the team is still levelling/alt grinding etc) but it’s bloody easy to get a full honor set and FAST. Every BG is different and there are two new ones to boot. You can even mark two that you don’t want to run in (if they’re not that week’s Call To Arms).

    Pvp, altho it’s crazy right now and geez my poor balance druid is squishy, BUT — it’s low maintenance. You get on, do dailies while you wait for queues to pop and rage in BGs with your friends. Done and done.

  14. Ben says:

    Bear arnt you a raider now ?

    Your not going to let all your guildys do the work and you get run :(

  15. Riegnman says:

    I sooooo agree with this post. As a matter of fact, the only dailies that I’ve done the last 2 days have been my planting/harvesting. I didn’t even do the rest of the tillers dailies. On top of that, I haven’t even played the last 2 days EXCEPT to plant/harvest and probably won’t tomorrow.
    It should be something like this:
    1. You get JPs for running randoms.
    2. You go to SW/Org and spend those JPs on BLUE gear.
    3. You raid and get VPs if you want Purps
    4. If you don’t want to raid, you do dailies and slowly work your way through revered/Blue gear to exalted/purple gear that you buy with gold or tokens that are awarded from dailies.

    Maybe you get chest/wrists from this faction and pants/helm from another faction and boots/gloves from another faction.

    That gives me the option to devote my time to a raiding guild or log in for 20-30 minutes at a time to run some dailies.
    I think that the basic premise is there but they need to tweak it a little. Makes the game more fun for everybody.
    Now, if I want to devote my time to a raiding guild instead of doing dailies then I can go @ friendly and spend 4k VPs on a cloud serpent mount from that faction or some BS like that but otherwise, I have to be exalted to get the mount with gold/daily tokens.

    Gating is always gonna be in the game and it should always be in the game. Double-gating is a PITA though and is the reason that in 4 days (after my annual pass expires) I’m canceling my sub. Maybe I’ll re-up for another month. Maybe not. Who knows? Yeah, I probably will since winter is coming on. . .

  16. Zy says:

    Agree 100%. Gear can be on rep vendors that require grinding OR they can be purchasable by JP/VP (which are capped and a grind all their own). Not both. And removing the ability to get rep in dungeons drives me up the wall as a healer, I want to be able to work for my factions while fulfilling my chosen roll. If they really didn’t want us getting all our rep in dungeons then by all means give it a weekly cap. Heaven knows they’ve done that for other things! That way I could at least do a little of the rep by healing but I would still have to do dailies if I wanted to max out my rep gains and get it over with as quickly as possible. My main would probably do that, the mage alt would probably do mostly dailies and the healing alts (I have a healer of every class) would probably just do it slowly via dungeons. But that would be my choice and when is more choices a bad thing?

  17. Tzivya says:

    It just baffles me, the current system. It’s like they looked at Vanilla factions and said ‘Yeah, that was fun, only it needs more grind and less direct rewards.’.

    Rep grinding is universally hated. It has been since day 1. It is tedious, and boring, and frustrating. At least when it was for a mount or a pet, it was optional, but it isn’t now. And it requires a completely separate currency that comes from the places you’d want to wear the gear for!

    I will hit 90 in the next day or two, and I don’t know what I will do then. I want to raid, and dungeon, because that is what I love in WoW. But I refuse to spend weeks grinding dailies for hours and hours a day to get there. I have a family and kids and such to take care of, WoW is not supposed to be a job on top of that.

    On the plus side, we now group weekly as a family on low level characters levelling together (They are low 20’s now, my son tanking and me healing, wife and daughter and girlfriend DPSing) and it is a blast. Family night alone makes playing worth it, it’s just sad how little joy I get from my character I’ve played for years and years. I feel like I could reroll the same class and name and have more fun levelling through dungeons than in the so-called endgame. :(

  18. I can’t use your login doobrey any more, it appears to be perma-busted for me. I really hope I don’t have to load a Microsoft browser to use it :(

    I think, perhaps, that Dailies are punishment for Hardcore raiders. If you want to raid, you have to put in the hours and can’t just stroll in any more.

    I do the Dailies when I feel like it, as this is just a Game and I play it as I choose. It says a lot about the game right now that some people are willing to put in the hours on parts of the game that no-one else will ever see (Tillers Farm) but find grinding for gear an issue. Needless to say, I doubt this system will make it into another Expansion.

    For what its worth, I am LFR ready with the minimum amount of fuss, have made decent money from skinning everyone else’s quest kills, and expect reputation to happen ‘when it happens’…

  19. Gyrafall says:

    I have the opposite problems with respawn timers on dailies — I tend to play when not many other people are around, so a respawn rate calibrated for high player density inevitably drops unexpected extra mobs on my (cloth-wearing, cold-fingered, squishy) head.

    I’m also running fewer dungeons than I used to. I honestly think Wrath was the high point for end-game dungeon running — I remember running every heroic dungeon twice every day, when I had enough free time. Now…no. I can’t pin down what it is, but I don’t feel as invested in the dungeons.

  20. Malk says:

    Could. Not. Agree. MORE.

  21. thomstel says:

    Seeing the decent amount of rep gear on BiS lists the month leading up to MoP, I took ten minutes and tried figuring out how/when I’d be able to access the various faction dailies, rep given per quest, etc. to see how likely it was to get that gear. I got confused. So I went and checked the raid consumables lists and started researching the cooking/alchemy stuff. I got more confused.

    Patch hit, had a blast playing the game again. I’m a quester at heart. Then Blizz started monkeying with the iLvl of the blues on the rep/honor vendors. Then I started hearing from guildies that the rewards for dailies was more and more dailies. So slowpoke lvl 87 version of me decided to take this route:
    1) Buy 450 PvP crafted gear when the price was right.
    2) Fill in the other slots with the top-line quest gear.
    3) Get Spear of Xuen from Archaeology.
    4) Run BGs, Heroics, Scenarios and Dailies, in whatever ratios _I choose_.

    I don’t even have my first piece of valor gear from the rep vendors, and I’ll be darned if I spend Justice on that garbage 450 gear, unless it’s for an off-spec or something. When will I get a rep piece, or an honor piece? Eh. I’m pretty much pretending it doesn’t exist, and the world (of warcraft) is for me a better place.

    That being said, I am doing my GL dailies because of the additional quest hubs and the one-off yellow quests that open up at the rep tiers…because it’s more questing. And the Tillers stuff seems compact enough with both the faction & friend grinds there that I try and swing over there most days.

    Having fun still, but I can feel the chill of burnout from many directions. Hopefully I’ll crest the 460 iLvl mark soon and get excited for LFR.

  22. Utreo says:

    What I don’t understand is the need to have everything new for MoP done within a month of it’s release…

    You don’t need any BiS, or even much(/any) vendor gear to run heroics
    JP gear is for filling holes(to get in heroics) that you didn’t get 89-90 quest rewards or dungeon drops for, even now that it’s 458
    VP gear is, by and large, for people that aren’t going to running raids, obviously, since it replaces it.
    Better than LFR gear you can get totally solo shouldn’t be something you grab a piece of every week.

    Knowing the fights, yes even in normals and heroics, is going to be much more helpful for anyone that isn’t already getting 99% out of their toon.
    Having your rotation down>more primary stat
    Not standing in “fire”>more stam
    etc

  23. Copey says:

    Anybody else, at the reference to Torquemada, have Mel Brooks spring into their heads singing “The inquisition, what a show! The inquisition, here we go! I bet you’re wising…that we’d go away! But the inquisition is here, and it’s here to stay!!!!”

    No? Just me then?

  24. Smashogre says:

    There are ways to gear up for the end game without involving yourself in the rep grinds. I geared geared up my hunter through the rep grinds, but looked to other ways to get my pally into LFR

    1) Run heroic 5-man: If you are a tank or healer that can handle pugs, or have a group you can run with, this is by far the fastest way to gear up

    2) Scenarios: Yes, the drop rate from the bags is about 10% . When all your slots are below 363, this is by far the most efficient way to gear up for the DPS only classes. Running 3 or more scenarios will probably get you gear faster than waiting for 1 dungeon que to pop and running the 5-man. The gear for hunters can also be better than the dungeon version

    3) Battlegrounds: I don’t recommended for everybody. It is a way to fill in those slots you cant seem to ever get the gods of random chance to fill for you. If you enjoy or can tolerate it, try it. Don’t knock it until you try it. The new battlegrounds can be quite fun, and at this moment , BM hunters are pretty OP. The PvP stats are no longer part of the ilevel budget, so a 358 pvp gear comes close to the 363 PvE gear, while being superior to the 450 PvE world drops and dungeon quest blues

    4) Sha of Anger: This world boss spawns almost every half hour, and a Tuesday doesn’t go by I cant find a pug to get all of my 90’s in. The first kill gets you a quest item for 476 boots. the regular drops are also very nice. NOTE: running Sha late in the week can be VERY frustrating, i recommend doing it as close to Tuesday as possible

    5) Crafted Material: Yes, BS needs honored with Klaxxi, and Leatherworking and tailoring need honored with the Golden lotus. You can still buy them from somebody else. Inscribers have the 476 staffs with no rep required. Engineers have the BoP helm, and they can make a 450 trinket for anybody that is in almost everybody’s 10 best in slot list because you can select the sprockets that it uses . Both of those can be done without rep. Archaeology has 3 account bond items that are worthwhile, and all 3 can be used at 85, making them doubly useful since you can give them to alts once your main finds better stuff. also, once can get to honored with klaxxi without running a single daily , since just running the Dread waste quest will get you to Honored with them AND a set of 437 quest greens that will allow you to jump into heroics.

    Here is my quick and easy way I leveled my pally to 461 and into LFR 5 days after I hit 90.

    1) Start Dread Waste at 89- You get the 437 quest greens and 450 blues quest items, thus you will have the 435 needed to run heroics as soon as you hit 90

    2) Run the The Arena of Annihilation scenario for the 450 weapon

    3) Run scenarios and 5-mans as needed to get some of the slots upgraded to 363

    4) If you can tolerate PvP, run a few battlegrounds, otherwise use your JP to upgrade those other slots

    5) Kill the Sha, steal his Nikes, and perhaps even get lucky and get another purple

    6) Kill any holiday boss (Headless horseman is up at the moment, 470 rings) until he drops your stuff

    7) Run LFR for the EPIXXX!

    Do dailies on YOUR time schedule, skip the days the quests seem bothersome. You can only buy a VP item every 2-3 WEEKS, the Klaxxi and Golden lotus have items available at honored, which one can get by running the dailies at most 4-5 times in that 21 day period if you just must have the VP stuff ASAP. I’m revered with 3 of the 4 VP rep grinds on my hunter, yet I wont be able to do anything with them for another 2 weeks since the valor cap is so low. Some of the quests can be quite fun and should be enjoyed, not treated like some evil thing you have to do.

    • spinks says:

      Just wanted to say that this is all really good advice.

      Also, there is a hump in the rep grinding and after you get over that, it does all get a lot more relaxed and fun. (As Rades says, some of the dailies are quite fun in themselves if you don’t absolutely hate dailies in general.) I don’t say this to excuse Blizzard, because the Golden Lotus is a tedious grind — although there is at least one very fun daily that turns up sometimes after you hit Revered. For me, it was the point where I had high enough iLvL for LFR and had finished off one of the daily grinds. After that, it all did feel a lot more optional, I could pick the epic I wanted from rep and work towards getting the VP and rep to eventually buy it and let other things sit on the back burner.

      It’s trying to do everything at once that weighs people down and at the start of an expansion on a new 90, you do feel that way. So it does get better, it isn’t going to be like this the whole way through the expansion.

  25. Tazor says:

    As usual bbb you are right on. I now have a second “wow” job. The dailies wouldn’t be so bad if you didn’t have to compete with all the asshats running around. And what makes it even harder is that I played GW2 before mop hit and that game does it all right. It’s like they took everything wrong with wow and fixed it. World events that everyone can participate in (vs waiting 3 hours for gal not to spawn), everyone gets credit if the mob is tagged, dynamic questing, mailbox on your toon, sell items right from your bag, deposit items to the bank right from your bag. If GW2 had an end game, I’d cancel my wow sub in a second.
    The good news is that I’ll be revered with all factions in 4 days, then Blizz can take it’s job and shove it.

  26. Tinuvieldark says:

    Wow. This is such a bipolar swing from your earlier post of give me WoW or give me death. You ok BBB?

  27. Andrew says:

    I felt like you do too, BBB, but time (and again, it’s been out less than a month?) has mellowed my outlook a bit. A couple of observations:

    (1) Heroics are easy to access, and the gear from them is fine for accessing the first tier of raiding, if that’s what you want to do. Heroics *are* casual friendly, and people in queues have been much more tolerable than the last go around.

    (2) LFR is actually a bit challenging right now, but people are willing to work at it, and there’s a lot of loot there too.

    (3) at the end of the week, you can still only accrue 1000 VP, and this will limit the rate you can acquire this gear no matter what. Meanwhile, you are accruing VP *while running dailies now*. I get 5 VP just for giving a Tiller friend her favorite food! Pretty much no matter what we do, we are progressing.

    (4) again, that gear really is not needful to get raid ready. By the end of the first week, when I could only access Klaxxi honored VP gear (a neck?) my lock had an ilvl average of 461. It’s totally doable.

    (5) this content is supposed to last us at least until December, in all probability.

    This all said, I think it was a mistake for them to gate 2 factions behind Golden Lotus. That decision actually took a lot of choice away at end game, making figuring out how to gear with your sparse VP less interesting, and also creating the unfun Golden Lotus bottle neck.

    The bottle neck is much improved by grouping with another person though, and if you luck into more people and can help each other with drop quests, or be strategic about it, it approaches fun. Here’s the other thing: running 2 hubs of Golden Lotus quests gets you about as much VP as a heroic, and more if you have three hubs to do. Treat it like an opportunity for organized play in your guild, maybe?

    I just hit revered with them yesterday on my lock. I cannot say I’m not relieved, and I won’t be going back for exalted anytime soon. At the same time, it’s not the end of the world – maybe 12 days? – which in the scope of how long this game lasts us and how often we play, not so much time. Much of the pressure I think comes from outside the game – we feel we need the gear, or we’ll be letting down our raid team – but that’s all coming from us (or, in unhealthy cases, from our raid team). But they aren’t lying when they say you don’t need it to raid. That’s a Cata mindset. In retrospect, all of Cata endgame was designed to facilitate the hardcore raider mindset, and you remember how that turned out! There was nothing to do BUT raid, heroics made random groups painful, and if you aren’t a raider, don’t you dare think about finding a nice set of shoulders, unless you want a BoE set some raider has put on AH for 26000 gold.

    I will take Mists with its warts a thousand times over an expansion like Cata.

    Apologies for all the text.

  28. Andrew says:

    Another thing you can do if you aren’t planning on running dailies everyday is collect the dailies one day and run them the next. Cuts back on competition, but you can only do this every other day.

  29. E says:

    I hit VP capped on my hunter, and can’t do a damn thing about it – her rep isn’t high enough with anyone to buy their gear, and anything I could get with JP, I’ve already (most likely) got better for from dungeons. This was one of my favorite characters, and now I’ve barely touched her in two days, even when I could/should be doing Tillers/Anglers stuff.

    I dinged a DK to 90, but the prospect of grinding Cloud Serpent (JC recipes) AND Klaxxi (BS recipes) just has me exasperated.

    It sucks, because I really REALLY enjoyed this expansion right from the start, but this whole ball and chain rep grind mess has me beyond frustrated.

    • bigbearbutt says:

      I’m still just having fun doing Klaxxi stuffs. Oh, and I did Golden Lotus stuff last night to see just how bad it was… Cassie helped guide me through some of the worst of the first day. I just can’t imagine grinding that every day to exalted. /shudders.

      I think it’s something to do if and when over a year.

  30. […] The Big Bear Butt: Color Me Unthrilled […]

  31. Stormy says:

    I cheered and fistpumped as I read this, all ready to give you a shiny new Internet for saying what I’ve been thinking and saying it with your typical awesomeness. I very nearly lost my shit at the line about Torquemada.

    …then I read “and the inevitable cocksuckers running in and pulling 10 mobs” and my blood kinda ran cold. Hate speech is not okay, yo.

    • bigbearbutt says:

      I had a long thing written in reply, but it boils down to this; I used that word intentionally, in the hopes someone would do what you did, and object to it. In fact, in the hopes someone would get huffy.

      If this word stood out to you, if it shocked you, then I want you to hold onto that feeling, and remember that every time you ever intend to use a word to hurt someone else, including slurs against other individuals AND GROUPS, what you are doing is trying to inflict that same feeling of pain on someone else.

      That includes against people who do not share your political views, btw.

      I’ll admit, I was inspired to set this hook and see if anyone would take it by the sudden rise of people calling others ‘retards’ in the news, and apparently thinking that’s all right.

      Any time someone does that shit, drives me crazy.

      I try to limit myself to asshole and asshat these days, because crap in the brain sums up what I think of some of those people.

      • Stormy says:

        And this is why I heart you as a person and as a blogger, BBB. If it had been someone else I would have ripped their face off, but I know your work well enough to know that this was less of a deliberately hateful slur and more just OMFUCKINGGODIHATETHESEFUCKINGDAILIESSOMUCHRAWWWWWR.

        /hands you a shiny new Internet

        • bigbearbutt says:

          And for my part i felt bad you were the one that happened to catch my using completely atypical language giving me the opening to RAGE ABOUT THESE PEOPLE CALLING OTHERS RETARDS GRRRRR

  32. Bristal says:

    I’ve noticed that the odd array of dailies have me confused and unable to focus and create a meaningful plan for my character. I’m jumping around not really sure which faction is better than the other. Without the ability to easily prioritize, immersion has really suffered. The only faction that was really fun was the Tillers, but now that is over and I’m kind of lost.

    Perhaps it’s the absence of a clear goal within the game that makes it hard to even identify with the factions, and reduces them to just vendors. And why did they put the combined vendor so far away in Townlong Steppes?

    The other thing I’m feeling (and seeing in guildies) and interested if others agree, is that the dailies (and thus the game) seem to have an addictive quality that I haven’t felt in over 4 years of the game. Perhaps it’s the valor reward and desire to cap that. Perhaps it’s the gating of 2 factions behind another faction. Perhaps it’s the lack of a clear plan that makes them all seem more urgent.

    I noticed that the one time I was able to cap valor last week I just stopped. It seemed pointless. Perhaps linking valor to dailies was a mistake?

    • bigbearbutt says:

      you’ve got a great point there, I agree, it does feel more addictive to do dailies and keep going, even with someone like me who is focusing down on only one character, and on that character NOT doing all the dailies but spreading it out.

      Despite all my kvetching, every night finds my hunter doing Tiller and Golden Lotus dailies, and sometimes Klaxxi as well. But that’s cause I like the Klaxxi.

      I’m doing Golden Lotus because Cassie told me how bad they suck, and i guess i decided since she suffered through that to get the pattern to make me an epic mail chestpiece, I’d suffer through to get the JC patterns to make the Sapphire Kitty. Which is very cute, btw.

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