Kasmina asked a question in the comments last night;

“I am wondering how long it takes you and your wife to do the daily quests on Isle Of Thunder (along with killing a few rares along the way)? I am trying to figure out if I have enough free time to enjoy playing wow again. I have tried to find other games that didn’t feel so time consuming to accomplish improvements or a feeling of success. I am wondering if the new daily quests are time consuming like the previous daily rep quests were.”

I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this, but in my opinion if you don’t have much time to play every day, and if you don’t like the feeling of falling behind, then this is not going to be the time to come back to World of Warcraft.

You specifically asked about daily quests, but it’s all part of the same thing.

The current patch brought two factions, one that you gain rep with from daily quests (or paper chits of awesomeness you can loot, or by championing them while doing scenarios and dungeons, or by working on your farm doing commisssions, etc) and another faction you can ONLY gain rep with by killing bosses (and until Friendly, trash) in the new Throne of Thunder raid (all versions).

It’s not hard to get to exalted with the questing faction. It’s really not. But you will not be able to advance in the new raid faction unless you actually run the raid, all wings, every week it’s out consistently. And ALL the iLvl 522 Valor gear comes from the raiding faction.

Once you’re Exalted with the questing faction, and most of the consistent players in my guild are Exalted already, you don’t have to ever go back to the Isle of Thunder as far as I can see. You can do whatever you’d like.

They’ve even made it easier for players to decide to cut out early if they want. If you remember Golden Lotus dailies, at the end of the chain they gave you a loot bag. The problem was, the further you advanced in the faction, the more quest hubs you unlocked, and the more quests you had to do to reach the bag.

With the new factions, each stage of the Isle is unlocking more quest hubs… and there is a loot bag. But last night, the first night of the new stage, there were two loot bags. After I finished the first two hubs, they gave me my “go kill this badass dude” finisher quest that rewards a loot bag and other stuffs… and ALSO gave me a breadcrumb quest that led to two more hubs, and at the end of those, ANOTHER finisher quest with another loot bag.

I know, it sounds like I’m saying it’s too much and it’s just enough both at the same time.

It’s the raid faction that is the sticking point.

Your daily quest faction gives you some options for valor gear, but it’s all stuff appropriate for the 5.0/5.1 patch raids. The big reward for reaching Exalted, and it’s a BIG reward, is a triceratops mount.

All iLvl 522 Valor gear comes from the raid faction… and there will be four wings of the Throne of Thunder LFR raid.

Doing all the daily quests on one character as it stands now, with two stages still to unlock on the Isle of Thunder takes me about an hour, maybe an hour and a half when you count in rare runs.

Doing just ONE WING of the new Throne of Thunder LFR takes about two hours.

I’ll be generous. Let’s assume you either are a healer OR a tank, can get a fast queue, or you are friends with one that will queue with you.

One wing still takes an hour and a half. Three hours plus to do two wings, and that’s if you’re not spending time in queue. And there are two more wings yet to be unlocked!

The big problem isn’t the boss fights. I’m finding them to be really fun. I especially love Horridan. I know Cassie hates it, because as melee DPS she has to try to kill adds with bad stuff on the ground while a bazillion spell effects are going off all around her. It’s a melee mess. Me, as a ranged player, I LOVE Horridon, it’s just neat. Every time the raid warning “Double Swipe” goes off I grin, because it means impending dino destruction as Mechatriceratops goes nuts.

It’s the trash. There is just too damn much trash.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with the common consensus, you gotta have some trash as a palatte cleanser and to tease you with a taste of game mechanics yet to come.

But what it feels like is Blizzard said, “Lei Shen is a total badass ruler of all of Pandaria and a legendary villain. To impress everyone with how powerful and awesome and all-encompassing was his power, his palace must be massive. It can’t be a shed in the back forty.”

So they built a huge honking palace for Lei Shen.

Then they had a shitload of empty space, and they had to fill it with something.

Bring in the trash!

I’m not seeing a solution to it, either. Reducing it leaves too much white space, nerfing it makes people feel like the whole place should be zergable, and actual boss fights will hurt more by contrast.

If you look at the loot tables, the trash on normal can drop a ton of really nice gear, but I don’t think any of it can drop in LFR, so there isn’t even that monty haul feeling of possible impending lucky lightning. And if there were, everyone would need on it anyway, unless somehow they made the lightning loot work like the personal loot bags.

Whatever the case, there will be four wings of this stuff. On one character, only doing LFR, I expect that to leave you with 6 hours of raiding a week if you want to feel like you’re ‘keeping up’ with your fellow gamers on drop possibilities and raid faction rep development.

Six f’ing hours.

I’m already trying to decide who to cut on my roster. I’m down to only playing two character ever, the Warlock and Hunter. And I’ve been trying to keep them both evenly maxed as much as possible so both are raid viable.

I just don’t see that being possible when another wing opens up. It’s to the point where, with the time I’m willing to play, I have to pick one and only one. And yes, I do play every day, and even I’m saying it’s just too much.

I’m not looking forward to the decision. I like both characters a lot, they’re packed full of fun.

And here is the kicker; they just released the next patch for the PTR. We don’t even have everything in THIS patch released yet, two stages are still locked and two wings are still closed on the Throne of Thunder LFR, and the new patch with tons of new, cool stuff is on the PTR.

To sum up; if you are playing right now and staying up to date, then it’s a great time with tons of stuff to do and new things right around the corner all the time, to the point of being overwhelming trying to do everything.

If you haven’t been playing for months because you felt exhausted by daily quest and faction grinds in 5.0… no, I tell you in all sorrow, please no.

On the other hand… there are so many cute battle pets coming! Did you see? A little pet Barry the dino! He’s sooo cute! And a pet Valkyr! And a Fel Reaver! And more pets from old school raids!

If you want lots to do, and you can distance yourself from feeling like “I should really get my faction rep up so I can buy valor gear”, then there is lots of other fun stuff to do.

Just… fear the faction grinds.

33 Responses to “Buddy Can You Spare The Time?”
  1. Nazaniel says:

    We did both wings of LFR last night in 1:40. It doesn’t have to be so long.

    I do agree that it’s too easy to feel like you have to log on every day now because there’s just so much to do. I have to make a conscious effort not to log on a few days a week, even though I feel like I’m missing out on all of the fun. I guess that’s both a good and a bad thing :)

    • bigbearbutt says:

      I have to say, while it may be possible, every run I’ve been a part of says that isn’t a typical timeframe.

      Lord, how I wish it were.

      • Theodoxus says:

        Amen. We had allotted 3 hours for running ToT LFR. (Queue time as well) Spent 45 minutes in queue, killing warbringers. Spent 2.5 hours in the first ToT primarily in an argument over how to do the council. A large majority wants to burn Sand – and I don’t understand why – but inevitably, we had 3-5 DPS just sitting on Sand. The whole fight, until we wipe because the MCd one explodes or the Loas cause us to hit the enrage.

        I don’t even understand that at all – it’s not like Sand is hard. If anything, burn the witch – Loas are a PITA, and actually extend the fight.

        I’d love a fast run. Some time, hopefully soon.

        • Talarian says:

          As a healer, your comment makes me cry. More often than not, if you don’t burn Sul, when his turn is up healers have to deal with an immense amount of damage from Sandstorm AND the fact that by the second time he’s up for possession, he has ~12 – 15 adds running around that hit plate for 80k+ damage each. I’ve yet to see any LFR tanks capable of holding that many adds down, so inevitably the healers get all the aggro and die.

          In contrast, I have never wiped when putting melee on Sul and ranged on the posessed/loa. It seriously trivializes the fight, and in fact the fight goes faster because your melee DPS spend more time DPSing than running around after the posessed, especially if the posessed is Kazra’jin. The loa only have 1.4M health and can be rooted, snared, stunned, etc. a single player or two who are good at that sort of thing (Fist of Justice for paladins, Frost Shock/Earthbind Totem for shaman, hunters) is sufficient to kill the loa.

          • bigbearbutt says:

            I’ve seen the same thing. On runs where we focus and burn down Sul, especially when ranged are told to focus on the possessed and the loa, everyone not only wins but almost the entire raid lives. No deaths at all.

            Sure, there are other successful routes to success, and if the team is all on the same plan it will work. But when dealing with a group of strangers, I like having a plan that is easy to explain AND justify quickly when the inevitable special snowflakes want to argue.

          • Theodoxus says:

            I’ve only done Council on a disc priest and rejuve druid, so I’ve only seen it from a healing angle. I’ve never had issues with healing through the sand adds. IDK, just a different perspective I guess. But I appreciate knowing why there’s a burning desire to see him dead.

            And BBB’s spot on – there are multiple ways of finishing it – the problem definitely comes when people are playing by their own playbooks.

        • Andrew says:

          Burning Sul is the only way to accomplish that fight in LFR and keep your healers sane.

          I think it will all get faster once people learn the content and get better geared. I ran both halves this morning, with no wipes in the first half (probably 45 minutes total) and one wipe on the second and third boss of the second half (probably closer to 1:30 there). Wow, the trash in that second half! The silencing bats and the WTFery of the pre-Megaera situation made things take a while, especially as we were waiting for the group to refill. Still, I expect it will get better.

      • Thunderspank says:

        The only way I know of to keep the time down is to queue as a tank with another tank that knows the fights. Then you can run a tight ship, enough breaks for mana but no more than that and it gets done fast (barring the asshats who try to cause wipes).

        You’re spot on though, it feels like there is too much to do. I’m not even trying to keep to the bleeding edge anymore, I play when I get the time and enjoy it but I know for a fact that I’m falling behind. And it’s okay. Plenty of fun to be had nonetheless. :)

        • bigbearbutt says:

          Yeah, if you can control the run as the tank and friend, that would be ideal. Which circles back to what more and more people I respect are saying; if you can, if it is at ALL possible, set a raid night when you and all your friends/guildies queue up for LFR and run it together. let LFR fill in the unclaimed spaces rather than being the victims at the mercy of the mass of strangers.

  2. Ted says:

    Tank queues can be brutal for LFR. I’ve experienced queues in excess of 45 minutes as a tank. Only healers get a fairly fast queue in my opinion. I’m really watching what they do with the ‘offspec’ issue in 5.3. I may need to start collection Holy gear so i can do LFR as Holy and get my Prot and Ret gear.

  3. Theodoxus says:

    I’m in the same boat regarding toons. Some days I just want to throw up my hands, declare my priest, not just my main, but my ‘only’ and never look back. But I’ve worked hard on my druid to get to 480 and LFR ToT. Now, I’m trying to get my monk geared up.

    Fastest way, obviously, is to get as much 522 gear as I can, along with dungeon and LFR gear. That’s 3 toons I’m trying to valor cap weekly – one of which (the monk) is only 454 ilevel, so capping is a lot harder.

    It’s absolutely destroying both my social life out of game, and surprisingly, in game. My guildies will ask if I want to go do dailies, and I’m queued up for dungeons and scenarios and LFR to maximize my valor generation starting as soon as I get home on Tuesday – and never stopping until Monday.

    Then there’s the added stress of thinking about my WoW day while at work… “I’ll queue up for Mogu, get my sigils, then run a dungeon, get my rep, going right into HoF, then raid with the guild in ToT LFR, doing both… that’s at least 450 valor, easy.”

    The reality ends up being: Scenario, Dungeon – check. First mogu, check. Second HoF, check. First ToT, check – it’s now 11:30 and I’m exhausted. 405 valor earned. GRR.

    So, I’m at work, thinking about running the first HoF and TOES for sigils (still need 3 on my druid) and the second ToT – and scenario and dungeon… no quild run tonight, so no stress about being available on time – but no time for dailies either, and I REALLY want the healing trinket from the Dominance Offensive… Plus my priest has done nothing yet for valor and my monk has done nothing for gear.

    /wrist – too much to do!!! Can I haz my ‘only’ now plox?

  4. E says:

    How time consuming the quests are entirely dependent on what you and ( by some extension) your guild feel is necessary. If your guild (like mine) doesn’t give two figs about raiding, then quest when you feel like it and don’t worry about it. I’ve got 1 character with 2 of the MOP factions at exalted (I believe – it might be 3) … several others at revered. Some still at friendly or honored. It’s just not important to me. I work on it when I feel like it. In the meanwhile, I enjoy all the little mini-game options, the running around Azeroth in a ‘Gotta Get ‘em All” mindset, in running old dungeons and raids for a chance at mounts and/or companion pets.

    Then again, I’m exactly the type of player Blizzard is trying to avoid catering, because I don’t believe I need other people just to have fun.

    • bigbearbutt says:

      I’m much the same way, I’ve made sure the factions that I felt were necessary to be the most prepared for raiding I could be were maxed, but other than that I do what I feel like.

      I really want to finish Order of the Cloud Serpent some day… someday.

      • HerrDrache says:

        As one who’s done the Cloud Serpents three times (!), all I can say is: It’s a WHOLE lot easier after you get the ‘increased rep’ chip. Once I had that, I started an alt on their rep, and it was FAST. Those intro quests catapult you right up there, and the rest might take a week at the accelerated rate.

        Before anyone asks why on earth I would be insane enough to level three alts to exalted with the cloud serpents, the answer is “MOUNTS”
        I love those serpents. First off, you HAVE to be exalted on the toon who wants to ride it. Yes, your alt does NOT get to ride it if that alt is not exalted.
        Also, remember that you get e free mount – color based on the color egg you pick? Yeah – three eggs, three toons, three mounts.

        Again, it’s really quick with the accelerator thing. I actually did the rep a 4th time on my priestess because she wanted to ride the mounts, too. And as a healer/tailor, she doesn’t do band-aids and had to do without that one daily and didn’t do the archy daily either.

        • bigbearbutt says:

          Thank you VERY much for answering my unasked question: can alts fly the mounts if they don’t have the rep.

          Well, shitski.

          • Jem says:

            If you ever get Alani’s mount, you need not only OotCS, but August Celestials as well.

            Cloud Serpent isn’t that bad. Although when I first hit 90, Tillers and OotCS were my first two factions I worked on. I may nto be the most committed raider. My guild had a long lead time into starting MoP raiding so we could have some fun.

  5. Kasmina says:

    Thank you for writing about the game at the present time. You have given me all the information I need to make a decision. I also found the responses thought-provoking. Thank you. I will think about this over the next day or two and decide if I am going to play WoW, and if so how I will play it.

    • bigbearbutt says:

      You are welcome.

      And if you are able to ignore where the current ‘progression’ factions are, the new pets, profession stuff “including new Blacksmithing patterns”, Isle of Giants dinosaurs, new frequency and ease of doing world bosses, the rare hunting… it’s all great.

      It’s only if you feel you must be a completionist that it’s just not doable.

  6. Kobay says:

    Couldn’t agree more, B. This is why I only have one level 90 toon (Warlock) and even he doesn’t Valor cap most weeks. I’m not going to say there’s “too much to do,” I remember well the days of the Cataclysm, when there was nothing to do but stand around in Orgrimmar while a queue timer counted down.

    Just that in my case there is so much to do that I can only do it on one toon.

    • Ted says:

      I’m pretty much the same way. My problem is I’m really torn between my Paladin and my Hunter. I usually go with the Paladin because we need the tank. But especially for THIS patch, I wish I had picked the Hunter.

    • bigbearbutt says:

      I remember those days too, and how there was little to do other than alt alt alt. And alt raids.

      We had no fun given to us so we made our own.

      Now we have fun crammed down our throats, and I love it, but I can see why folks are choking a bit when we once could easily stay on top of everything, and now you pick the part of the game you want to play most and have time to do.

      Where I thought Kasmina was coming from is the player that, once you know the content is there, feels unsatisfied with it being undone and feels that urge to go do it, an itch that needs scratching.

      I’m at the point I wish I had more time to do pet battles. With the new patch I have had to cut the pet battle time 100%. It’s gone. haven’t done a pet battle since the patch hit, except to test DeGei’s comments on Lesser Charms drops from Pet Battles.

  7. Jason says:

    The new stuff can definitely be a time suck. Personally, I’ve solved it by either not doing stuff, or doing stuff. Some days, I halfway do stuff. Ultimately, having 2 90s geared for ToT LFR(Healer/DPS and a Tank), I’ll run at least one of them through both available wings, and the other might see one wing. Beyond that, I’ve got another 90 geared for MSV(1 point short of HoF), who gets some time every now and again.

    So, the Island reps. If you’re trying to progress the Legendary, you’ll actually need to spend more time on the island beyond just capping out rep. In fact, I’d say that capping out rep is the least important of it; in order to fully progress the questline, the island has to be fully progressed as well. If that’s not a big deal, then you’re absolutely free and clear of the island as a whole. Yep, that’s right; feel free to ignore the rep unless it’s got something you want, like the mount or 476 belts for gold at honored.

    As for how I’m juggling 3 90s, I have a checklist of a few things that I want to do each week:

    1. Legendary quest progress. Shaman is priority for this, although I make the effort to Valor cap my DK every week for it as well. Warlock gets progress when I feel like slamming my head against MSV(2/10 sigils).
    2. Accrue enough lesser charms for the Shaman and the DK to complete the mogu charm quest. This is actually pretty easy I’ve found, although I don’t really keep track of how many days/week I do them. Generally though, I don’t know that I’ve ever really spent more than ~30 min/day per character on em.
    3. Run Sha/Galleon with the Warlock. Again, not a huge thing here; find a group doing one or the other and tag along.
    4. Oondasta on the Shaman. This is a take it/leave it. If there are folks making an attempt, I’ll go up and burn some time wasting guild money on repairs. If it doesn’t happen, no big.
    5. Despite being the last thing on my list, it’s probably the most important: Do whatever captures my fancy that is enjoyable. This could run the gamut from rotating crops on 6 farms(yes, I have 6 characters with 16 slot farms), to running heroics on my DK, to chasing rares on my warlock(DROP YOU STUPID BOOK). I spent the last couple days leveling a new Warrior alt after running a ton of heroics to upgrade/buy new heirlooms(16 levels till I can dual wield Arcanite Reapers). But this is really what keeps me going, day in day out.

  8. Andrew says:

    I understand exactly what you’re talking about. As I’ve mentioned, I feel like I have mental energy to work on about 1.5 characters to the full extent, and I switched from lock main to disc/spriest to maximize my return on time invested. Even then, the thought of being only on week 2 of “A Test of Valor” makes me cringe. The thought of following up my priest’s progress though with my lock doesn’t sit well, as I’m doing almost as well with my shadow spec as I did with affliction (well, post-5.1). I find I just don’t want to duplicate efforts, so I’m not working on my 90 resto/feral Druid, nor my 90 WW/MW monk, nor my lock. I feel like best use of my energies would be spent on a tank, but I’m not crazy about Guardian spec (adding a cooldown to lacerate, of all things, ruined the feel of it for me), and the Brewmaster is a tough nut to crack. So my .5 time is going toward leveling a new blood DK. Viva Ramps!

  9. Sprowt says:

    Going back to the original question – it all depends if you feel you HAVE to do the dailies. You don’t. There’s nothing in the game you HAVE to do. In theory, you could simply run LFR from start to finish, getting into the progressively higher up ones as your gear improves – check the AH occasionally if you have a gap, or look for professions that can make upgrades for you – next patch I think they’re talking about letting the upgrade vendor in, which will help upgrade the odd bit for you.

    I’ve run all the dailies on all of the factions with my main toon – but I’m really not planning on doing any for gear for any of the others. My Resto Druid and my hunter are able to run LFR for upgrades and the only faction they got exalted with was the serpent guys (the druid by accident from egg collections, the hunter for the JC patterns). Once you have the tokens that increase your rep gain, you can get quite a bit anyway just levelling normally, if you select the right area.

    And if you do want to do the dailies, you don’t have to do all the new ones. You get exalted pretty quick with them, so do them a few times, find which ones you prefer, and just do those ones. Add into the mix joining in killing the odd rare or doing some of the achievement bosses, it soon mounts up.

  10. Katzbalger says:

    If you’re satisfied with a bit less rep and 1 box, you can cut your isle of thunder dailies time a LOT by picking the PVP dailies instead. Takes me about 10m, boom done. As for getting the quest faction to exalted on alts, I just do the solo scenario on each plus the stage scenarios, since I have the commendation for double rep that seems to be decent progress on them. If I’m feeling productive, I go and do ONE of the PVP dailies on each, the easiest one which is grab a charged moganite and ride back with it, 1 daily is enough to count as that char doing it’s bit towards unlocking the next stage.

    The main thing with the quest faction however is….it’s pretty worthless regarding gear. If you want the achievement or the mount, sure, otherwise don’t bother. All the good gear is on the raid faction and it’s honestly not that bad to cap. Just do the LFR for your rep each boss, you only get rep once off a boss whatever difficulty, and do the weekly valor quest to kill 3 champions. The other thing to consider with the raid faction is if it’s actually worth it for you to run a certain wing. Get the rep, yes, but are there any drops for your character in that one? When it comes down to ‘eh, it’s only 1k rep for that wing and no drops for me on the bosses’ it feels a lot less like you’re missing out by skipping it to do something more fun or productive on another char.

    As a total achievement addict with 8, yes 8 90’s, I have to consider my time spent on stuff vs other stuff I could be doing and decide which. Honestly, right now, it’s a lot better time-wise than last patch. Most of the mop factions are irrelevant as regards gear, you can use your farms to get rep with them if you really want, the only things progression-wise you ‘need’ to do for alts is running LFR and the 1 progress scenario each stage to keep yourself up to date on the isle of thunder. Doing the loot scenario is fast enough and fun enough that I’d definitely say it’s worth it, but once your char is 480 ilvl and you’re doing TOT LFR on them, there’s not much point in it for gear progression, elder charms only work in the old raids, sha and galleon, TOT drops 502ilvl which beats all of those.

    To sum up:- All you need is time to do the TOT LFR’s to keep up on gear really. The rest is vanity and fluff, you can take it or leave it depending how you feel.

    • Theodoxus says:

      The one caveat I’d add is that the rings and trinkets from Shado-Pan Assault are unique to the group, so getting the second one from your factions ‘PVP’ Dominance Offensive or Stormwall Defense (or whatever it’s called) is a good rep to grind, to Revered, at least. Unless you’re lucky enough to get a drop in LFR (which I was on my druid, but not priest). However, for healers, I’ve yet to find a better trinket than the healing one from DO.

      • Andrew says:

        It’s a very good trinket, to be sure.

        The PvP dailies are great if you do them at off-peak times of day, or you are pvp-geared and know what you’re doing. I decided it would be worth gearing up a shadow pvp set – nothing crazy, but I did invest in the pvp staff and several other pieces – and I’ve found it makes a pretty big difference when opposition realizes I can bite them harder than they’re perhaps used to.

        (The other diabolical thing I’ve discovered is how, in your own base, if you click on the mana projector things, you get a pretty sizable haste buff that lasts for a minute, and you can also click on the wards to speed up their firing speed and power. So, if you wanted to sit and wait for the Horde to come to you for your 10 kills, this can make it a lot more, um, FUN.)

        For me, I think the notion of running even the two current ToT LFR wings on more than one character a week is too much, given the level of challenge it seems to be for many of the groups I’ve been part of. But maybe I’m just becoming a one-toon kind of guy. Instead of working on alts this week, I’ve spent much more time hunting rare spawns, and not just rares on the Isle of Thunder, but rares all over other parts of Pandaria.

        • Andrew says:

          Oh, also, the second trove from the PvE dailies was a low blow to those of us who would rather speed through PvP dailies to do our part. My favorite part of this entire Isle of Thunder thing is the Treasure Vault instance. ANY chance to get a second run a week on my main would be amazing, and I’m 99% sure that’s the only way to get a second key.

  11. Jem says:

    If you really want to do the LFR stuff, then it’s a grind. A lot of that grind though comes from queue times and PITA wiping. I am not able to get even the Isle of Thunder dailies done some days, due to time constraints at my end. But if you’re happy with not being in the best current gear, then MoP is a lot of fun.

    Personally, I haven’t capped valour more than twice since I hit 90. I’m still raiding with my guild and we’re still getting things done. It depends on the game environment you are in and what you want out of it.

  12. Riegnman says:

    Is it sad that I valor capped two toons this week on nothing but hunting rares?

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