Archive for the “Raiding” Category
I’ve been raiding one night a week with some folks in the guild, I wasn’t able to stay with a weekend team but I’ve been lucky, these folks can raid on a weeknight late enough that my son is in bed for most of it.
How much can you get done in one night a week, though, when it’s just two hours? I say two hours, because we are scheduled for two and a half, but I need a break in there to get my son tucked into bed.
Yes, I know. I’m that raider on your team you would hate. It’s okay for you to tell me you’d hate to raid with someone like me, I know. I know all too well. There you are, your team is flying high, everything is in the groove, you are just getting cooking, and here comes this dude an hour in, “Hey guys, sorry, gotta go get my son brushed teeth and tucked into bed, sorry for the buzzkill. Be back soon.”
I’ve said it before, I may look like I’m logged in for 6 hours straight, but most of that time I’m afk… no, I wasn’t ignoring you, I was showing my son how to make a new design for a paper airplane. Or looking at a cool scene he wants to share from Transformers; Dark of the Moon. Since when does Optimus Prime have lips? Or watching him take on a pet team two levels higher, and taming a new rare quality Tundra Penguin. Those penguins are badass. Or I’m wandering around upstairs, wondering where I left my book. Is itin the bathroom? No? then where the hell… Or leaving the game on to go eat dinner and watch Top Chef or Chopped, because, hey, why even bother logging out? It’s not like there are people waiting in a queue… and ever since Mists of Pandaria released, it takes about 10 minutes for me just to log into the game, what with waiting for shit to decide if the game is up to date or not. Every. Single. time.
Okay, that one time, I was just ignoring you. But I don’t make a hobbit of it or anything.
With all that distraction, only two hours to raid one night a week, what can you really get done?
Well… for starters, you can clear Mogu’shan Vaults and also take down the first boss in Heart of Fear. :)
We’d been consistently clearing the first four bosses of Mogu’shan Vaults, then taking a couple runs at Elegon before switching over to Heart of Fear each week.
Last night, we cleared through Mogu’shan to Elegon as usual, had a rocky start with the first few Celestial Protectors dying inside the ring when Total Annihilation went off… but despite that we still went on to one shot it for our first Elegon kill ever!
I’m not sure how many attempts we’ve had over the last few weeks… maybe 7 or 8. More? Still, I think we were all a little surprised that after a weeks break, we came back and killed it on our first try of the night.
From there, we went straight to our first-ever run at the Will of the Emperor in normal mode, and we encountered the Convert To Raid effect;
“Yay! First ever kill of Elegon!”
20 minutes later…. “Yay! We’ve cleared Mogu’shan Vaults!”
It’s just like the guys at Convert To Raid say… once you’ve got Elegon down, the Will of the Emperor isn’t quite at the same level of challenge.
One thing that’s interesting is we had two healers for Elegon, but Tom had us switch to three healing on Will of the Emperor. He said that the healers may be bored for a lot of the fight, but once Titan Gas hit, they’d be going into overdrive.
True or not, I know that we one shot Will of the Emperor, but I felt we were right on the edge of having enough DPS to handle the adds, but not a smidgen more. I enjoyed how the fight feels, I felt challenged as DPS to get the adds down fast enough to be able to switch to the bosses when Titan Gas comes up without distraction. Hustle your butts! Keep calm and DPS HARDER.
What a crazy night. We cleared MSV for the first time, all in one night, and had enough time left over to travel to Heart of Fear and get a kill in there as well, making it seven bosses in two and a half hours.
All the cool kids may be off doing heroics and nibbling on the TOES, but I’m pretty impressed with our progress. I’ve been in LFR groups that killed fewer bosses in that time.
Sadly, yes I have.
Grats to Team Dippy for clearing the first raid in Mists of Pandaria!
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The holidays are sadly over, and the winter blahs have begun.
You know what this means, right?
The return of the Bear Sunday Fun Runs!
Hopefully the emphasis is on the “fun”.
I’m planning on our first 25 person run of the new year being this Sunday, January 13th, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM Central Standard Time (CST, also known as Greenwich Mean Time GMT – 6 hours).
Who can take part:
Before I get into the details, in order to be a part of these cross-server runs, you have to have your participating character be Alliance, and also be part of the North American/US server group. It makes me sad that I can’t play with so many awesome people I read about and follow from the European servers, but, well, that’s what we get to deal with.
Typical Bear digression wandering away from the topic:
On the positive side, I do get to play with Aussies and listen to their awesome accents. On the negative, well… Canadians.
Just kidding! A lot of my guildies are Canuckleheads, they know I love them and their poutine. Oh, and Canadian Bacon? This just in. IT’S HAM!
I have to be careful not to antagonize the Canadian folk too much. I live in Minnesota, and in the long cold winters, I can hear them up there the other side of Lake Superior, sharpening their ice skates and thinking long thoughts on our bacon. If we push them too far, I can see them sweeping down out of the North with their sharpened hockey sticks poised to attack, ready to eradicate our heretical salty-sweet crispy smoked-pork ways.
What was this post supposed to be about, and how the HELL did I get to talking about a war with Canada over bacon?
Coming back to what we’re doing and who can take part:
This go around, with successful ICC and Ulduar achievement runs under our belts, I want to bring us up into the more recent Cataclysm days.
Specifically, this week I am putting together a 25 person team to go into Firelands this Sunday to do a complete clear, up to and including Ragnaros.
This first run would be a ‘getting familiar’ run, not a full-fledged achievement run or heroic mode kill. What achievements could be done quick or as part of the normal run we’ll go for, but the emphasis on this first run will be on spending the two hours getting everyone in the team familiar with each fight and understanding the basics.
Oh yeah, and on killing lots of flame-based mobs.
Right now, I do NOT have anyone in the group confirmed aside from Alex, Cassie and myself. Nobody has dibs on legendary questline items, nobody is a confirmed tank or healer, it’s a brand new fresh run starting up as of today.
Now, what makes this run different from previous Bear Sunday Fun Runs is that this is very recent content. I believe it will still be challenging for a group that is not used to playing and communicating as a team, especially once we get into achievements.
What I’m leading up to is the level requirement, and class composition.
For this team, I prefer that everyone in the group be level 90. I’m not going to be a hardass about it, the occasional 88 or 89 won’t be a problem. But I’d definitely prefer most of us be level 90.
As far as class composition, we’ve always been lucky in the past to have a great mix of tanks, healers and DPS players. The only difference this time is, I’m going to be looking to confirm folks in those tank and healing roles before the Sunday night run comes. I want us each to be as prepared as possible for what we’re going to be doing.
Today Ragnaros, tomorrow the achievements!
Once this Sunday introduction run is complete, the following Sunday runs we will work on completing each of the related Glory achievements. Because of that, I hope that each person who signs up to take part will be able to keep coming back for the next few weeks, so we can get the entire group through as a team.
Yeah yeah, how do I sign up for a spot and a role?
If you are already on my Battletag friends’ list, then just whisper me when I log in this week or email me and let me know you want to take part, and what role you want to play in the team. I will start a list, and it’s a done deal.
If you are in my guild, I will be putting the run up on the calander so you can sign up, and I will be whispering you to see how sure you are you will be able to take part Sunday, and as what role.
And if you are neither of those things, email me at email@example.com and we’ll work out the Battletag stuff so as to be sure to get you in no matter what US server you happen to be on.
Aw shit, legendary drama.
One last thing. If you are specifically intending to take part in the raid to further your progression in the legendary weapon questline, you must let me know IN ADVANCE of the run, including details on how far along you may already be. Emailing me is fine. I will make a list of each person, and figure out by some arcane manner who will go first, and let everyone involved know before Sunday. If you have never started it before and are hoping to do so now, make sure you email me so we can talk.
I’m really looking forward to this.
I know a lot of people out there were raiding full time at the leading edge during Cataclysm and are sick of Firelands, but I always liked it, and I know neither Cassie nor Alex were able to take part in a Ragnaros kill. I have to figure we’re not alone in that, so hopefully we’ll have enough folks eager to go that we’ll be able to have a hot time in the old town this weekend.
I hope to see you there!
UPDATE 1/9/13: The tank situation has been covered, as Askevar and Venoym are going to provide the skilled tanking services for the team this Sunday.
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Let’s talk about raiding, and the news coming from all of the Developer interviews.
The feel is, Blizzard is committed to trying to release new content patches every two months or so, and some kind of new raid every four months.
This is coupled with the idea that, rather than nerfing existing raids over time to make them more accessible, they will leave them as is (aside from possible bug fixes).
So, for example, we could see the expansion hit as it did, then 5.1 come along two months later giving us new tons of new non-raid content, and then four months after that the first new big raid. And we’ll ahve two months to say, “Oh nice, a raid” before more non-raid content.
A new raid in four months that has had the mighty word “Ulduar” invoked when describing it.
What does that mean?
I just had the pleasure of running in Ulduar 25 on Sunday night (dear lord, I love seeing Ulduar), so the experience is fresh in my mind.
We have no specifics on what ‘Ulduar’ means in regards to the new raid, but it could mean a massive location with both indoor and outdoor areas, or it could mean 10 to 12 bosses (or more) in different wings to spread things out and vary the feel, it could mean new hard modes… it could even mean that epic scope of architecture and setting.
Or, it could mean the assault on Orgrimmar. Who the heck knows. I’m still thinking way too soon for that. We have a lot more story buildup before that happens. Maybe even another year of buildup. Or more!
But in about three, three and a half months we should get the new raid, whatever it is, and then two months after that, more non-raid stuffs.
That seems like ideal pacing to me.
It’s not enough time for most raiding guilds to get everyone everything they could use for upgrades from the existing bosses, RNG will see to that. But for those folks that may be stuck on earlier content, new raids bring new LFR, new opportunities at more powerful upgrades, and that gives you a built-in buff to clear the content you’re stuck on.
How cool is that? If they can keep that kind of pace up, we will always be looking toward the future, and if we do get down time, quiet time where we’re ahead… then we can run the older raids that we’ve moved past to try for those items that we really wish we’d won.
The lesson we need to remember here is, old raids are NOT dead content. Old raids represent fun opportunities to run with friends when we overgear the shit out of them for transmog stuff. And they are palces new pets and mounts can be added later!
Another point to ponder… at what point does a raid move from ‘current content’ to ‘old content’? When a new full paid expansion is released, or when a new tier of raids comes out in a content patch?
If it’s a content patch, then the new ‘current content’ raids can remain locked to single-realm raiding, while the older ones are broken free to cross-realm teams.
I’m really excited about all of this. Can you tell?
See, I’m in a raid situation where we are still on the first raid instance of the three that are out, but I still think this rocks.
When it comes to raiding, my personal sitaution has had a major upheaval in the last few weeks.
I really tried to maintain the Saturday afternoon raiding, but I couldn’t do it.
What it came down to was, I just can’t lock out a four hour chunk of time on Saturday afternoon every week for the raid. Once in a while was fine, but when you start talking a regular, weekly commitment, that changes everything.
The weekend is really the only time we have to do crazy family stuff… like driving to Duluth to see the aquarium, or hit Chicago, or whatever. Or to do home work, like paint rooms or install appliances to make repairs. Ah, the joys of home ownership.
I live in Minnesota. You’d be surprised how often the snow boss comes out to play. Funny story there, but maybe another time.
Anyway, I just couldn’t maintain Saturday raiding. I had to leave Team Snuffy, with a HUGE amount of sadness. We were really kicking ass, coming together as a team, and while it’s nice to leave on a high note with the first two bosses down in Vaults, it’s still a bummer.
With every door that closes, though, there is one that might be opening if you look for it, and Askevar and Venoym, who recently joined the guild, have started putting together an ‘alt night’ guild raid group on Thursdays.
In other news, Askevar will be on the Follow the Leader podcast in the next show, so make sure to follow them and check it out!
So, with them putting a once-a-week raid up on Thursday nights, late enough that my son is in bed for most of it, this is something I can do if they’ll have me. I know I’m a lot happier with it. :)
The new raid team on Thursdays has a name… I wish I could say I thought of it, but I didn’t. All I did was embrace it, and hold it close to my heart in happiness.
Askevar and Venoyms raid team on Thursdays is called… wait for it… Team Dippy.
If you’ve ever fought in the Brawler’s Guild, you know what that means.
Yep! We’re sloppy, clumsy, flail around and look ridiculous… but we’re cute and oh so FLUFFY, and if you give us a chance we’ll kill your ass in a heartbeat, sucka.
What a great name.
If anyone has a nice close-up picture of Dippy, btw, please email it to me. I’ll put it on Team Dippy posts. :)
So far, I’ve only gone on two runs with Team Dippy, but it’s been very fun.
The first week, we beat our heads against the first boss in Heart of Fear, and that was great. Yes, we failed to down the boss, but we learned the pacing of the fight pretty well. It’s all about the dance of Attenuation, and I love dance fights. I LOVE dance fights.
I can say that because I don’t have soul-crushing lag. If I did, I would scream in frustration and tear my hair out in clumps. But I don’t, so yay dance fights!
As I say, we didn’t actually kill the boss, but we got him below 15% a few times, and everyone was coming along tight by the end of the night. I’m pretty sure we have that one in the bag, just dangling there waiting for us to pluck it and taste of the… okay, that went to a weird place.
The second week, last week, was Mogu’shan Vaults. I knew the first two fights, and had seen the third once, but when studying the fights I did not take into account the skill level of the tanks and healers.
We destroyed the first three fights, just crushed them. I have to admit I had not watched the Fatboss videos or read the strategies of anything past the third boss, since you know, we only raid for two hours once a week.
Suddenly, I found myself facing the Spirit Kings, armed with nothing but some quick advice from my friends list, and what I had learned by listening to Koltrane, Zhug and Solarflair on the Convert To Raid podcast.
Fortunately, JUST that previous week Convert To Raid had gone into great detail on the Spirit Kings fight on Episode 73, so I found myself knowing what the heck to do, and holy crap we killed them!
Team Dippy, rocking the 4/6. It feels good.
Circling back to the point… there are three raids available right now, Mogu’shan Vaults, Heart of Fear, and Terrace of the Endless Spring. And all of them have heroic modes.
The raid group I’m playing with is 4/6 normal in the first raid, with two more raids sitting there untouched, and we have the prospect of another brand new huge raid coming out in maybe three to four months.
Yes, other folks are raiding strong, doing heroic modes, so you’d think there would be panic and disappointment at how far behind the curve we are, right?
Will we be done with the first three raids when number four comes out? Hell no. I don’t care how good Askevar and Venoym are, we have about sixteen raid nights before the new raids are expected to come out.
When it does come out, though, we’ll have had fun, killed more bosses, improved our teamwork and our gear, and learned to do the dance.
When the new raids DO come out, we’ll suddenly have new LFR, new gear opportunities, and that should help us speed up our progress through wherever we’re at.
What I’m saying is, as a player that will be ‘far behind’ in raid progression when new raids are being released, I don’t see needing a nerf to existing content, not when we’ll have LFR to help give us a boost. And we’ll have more incentive to improve, destroy existing bosses, and move higher up the progression to maybe leave MSV behind and focus on Heart of Fear and Terrace.
It’s exciting times… but everything depends on Blizzard following through on this time commitment. If they can do it, then they could be looking at a brand new energy for players in the long term.
If players who left keep hearing how there is new stuff, and more new stuff, and even more new stuff, and LFR to bring them back and get them begun gearing regardless of reputations, then I can see them coming back in droves.
If Blizzard can’t keep it up… well, buzz doesn’t last when the bees get bored.
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So, I’m going to be raiding someday soon™.
My Hunter is a max Jewelcrafter/Alchemist, so naturally I checked wowhead to see what the new Cauldrons were like, where to get the recipes, what materials would be needed, etc.
I didn’t find any cauldrons at all. It looked… it looked like each player would need to have their own specially-made Flask, with a 1 hour duration. Each flask takes some Mists herbs plus 1 Golden Lotus. Yes, each.
Spread over four hours of raiding, that would be 40 Golden Lotus per raid night for Flask buffs… minus the ones I wouldn’t need for my Alchemist mixologist buff.
Forty Golden Lotus? Holy shit.
Seeing that led me to go check into Raiding Consumables for Mists of Pandaria in general. Maybe I was missing something.
Tree Heals Go Woosh did a great guide a short time ago on Raid Consumables, still current, but at the time I hadn’t been really fixated on raiding. I didn’t study it close enough when it went up.
I sure as heck read back over it now.
There seem to be no Cauldrons. You want to raid with a Flask buff, you’ll need your own.
There are “Feasts” that the whole raid can eat and gain benefit from, but the best stats come from single-use food, not Feasts.
Even the most cursory glance at Raid Food shows that the mats each bite will take are immense.
It actually looks like Cooking mats were designed to consume all of the produce your farm can generate… meaning that if you want to make your own max quality food, you’ll need to do your farm every day, too.
Of course, if you’re using your farm to generate produce, you’re not plating Songbells for Spirit of Harmony.
This feels like severe culture shock.
Notice, I’m not saying I don’t LIKE it. I’m just saying this is gonna take some mental readjusting.
In Burning Crusade, each raider was responsible for bringing their own consumables, and damnit we had a LOT of them to bring.
In Burning Crusade, if you wanted to be as buffed as possible, you could bring with you Food buffs, Flasks, Scrolls, Sharpening Stones of various kinds, geez I can’t even remember it all anymore.
It felt like too much, but at the same time it felt good to have made the effort to be totally prepared. Does that make sense? It felt to have gone that extra mile, to have brought every conceiveable buff with you, it showed you really tried to be the best you could be..
At the same time, back then the mats were too expensive for one person to realistically supply the entire raid every raid night without going off the deep end. So everyone brought their own, OR would make arrangements to pay someone else/provide mats to someone else that could make raid buff stuff for them. And usually give them a tip.
The key there is, even if someone didn’t bring their own, everyone in the game acknowledged in some way that they were responsible for bringing their own shit to the party. If they didn’t it was their own fault. Same as if they came without having repaired first, or enchanted weapons and armor.
Northrend changed things up some, and by the time Cataclysm came around, most temporary buff items were dead and gone, and we were left with two: Flasks and Food.
Then those were made easier as well, A single-crafted Cauldron could supply an entire raid with Flasks, and a single-crafted Food could provide the whole raid with spec-specific buffs.
Instead of every player responsible for themselves, it became obvious that one person was expected to be able to supply everyone.
Now, maybe your group chose to pool food materials and cauldron materials, different people would bring flasks to feed the Alchemist, various people would fish to provide the mats for Feasts, but it was a HUGE shift in responsiblity.
Now we’re going back to individual responsibility?
So, what do we make of this?
It sure as heck looks like the materials for Flasks are gonna take more resources that one person should realistically be expected to provide alone every week… if this system were staying live the entire expansion.
Let me rephrase that.
I, as the only current Alchemist in my raid team, have no intention of spending time every week farming 40 Golden Lotus by flying around herbing, for the next year, so I can provide the entire raid team with Flasks for the night.
Last night, in order to see how much I would have to farm to reach that goal, I flew around for over two hours on my Druid in Kun Lai Summit, farming a tight route of ever-refreshing Snow Lilies.
I gathered massive quantities of Snow Lilies, probably 5000 gold worth easy if I hadn’t been Milling ‘em. So I gathered mass quantities… and then consumed mass quantities.
In all that time, I got 3 Golden Lotus. THREE.
Okay, so there are more ways to gather Lotus than herbing.
I tested the Revered Tiller Enigma Seeds, planting ten as a test in my garden. Out of 10 planted Enigma Seeds, I got 1 Golden Lotus. Which is nice, but over a week doesn’t come close to 40.
Now, if I were to plant Songbells for Motes of Harmony, you are guaranteed one mote per Songbell every day. You can purchase 3 Golden Lotus with one Spirit of Harmony at the vendor in your faction-specific place in the Vale.
So, best case, say I spent 7 days a week planting 16 Songbells, harvesting them specifically for Golden Lotus and no other reason. I could get 1.6 Spirit a day, eleven Spirit of Harmony a week plus two motes left over. That comes close to what I’d need, 33 Golden Lotus. Close, but still no 40 Lotus Cigar.
You know something? I’m Transmute specced, and it’s come in very handy for Primal Diamond tranmutes, I’ve procced quite a few extra. But I bet if I were to be Flask specced, or if I had someone who was do the actual crafting, we might hit that 40 goal.
Good lord, I’m exhausted writing about it, let alone doing it every day! Holy crap! I am seriously questioning my commitment to raiding at this point.
This coupled with the way individual food buffs are more powerful that the new feasts leaves me thinking that Blizzard expects everyone to just start taking responsiblity for themselves, and the Banquets are meant for LFR kinds of situations or Heroics.
Or… alternatively, maybe this situation isn’t meant to last.
Are things the way they are right now because Blizzard wants the effort and commitment of crafting these food and flasks to be a challenge specifically aimed at progression raid teams racing for Realm Firsts?
Will we see, a few months down the line, the return of high level Cauldrons and Feasts for use once the competition for Realm and World Firsts is behind us and the time-challenged start getting ready for raids?
I don’t know, I haven’t been keeping track of any conversation about consumables in WoW. There might be reams already written about this, and Blue Posts, and it’s just passed me by.
I do feel kind of wierd. Like, I remember being here when the expansion came out, and I do have a level 90 Druid, and yet it feels like I have no idea what’s going on in the game.
I blame Pet Battles.
If you’re really committed to getting progression raiding accomplishments, I could see food and flasks simply being set up as one more challenge to test your commitment. What I can’t see is the system staying that way long term for everyone in the game who has come to love raiding, if that IS the current goal of consumables.
For all I know, this is just the way things are now.
I’m serious, I don’t want to say I lack commitment, but I can’t see farming 40 Golden Lotus every single week. I just don’t have that kind of time. I work a paying job all day, you know?
People bitch about having to do dailies, but there is an end goal there. Once yuo hit exalted, you can STOP.
I’m sitting here saying I just don’t have the time to farm raid mats, let alone do dailies on top of it.
Sure, short term I’ve been doing Tiller dailies… on one character, every day. Plus farming. NOTHING ELSE.
I cannot see doing farming, long term, every day for the rest of my game time to be raid ready. ‘
In the words of Cassie, I do not want to play a game where I feel guilty if I don’t log in to do my chores. That’s why we quit playing Animal Crossing, we got sick of having to log in every day to pull weeds.
As things stand, this is just the cost of raiding. Making that commitment in time to make the flasks and food.
Six months from now? Yeah, I don’t see maintaining that kind of momentum.
Now, if only the Agility food was bacon-based. And if my computer had smell-o-vision. Then maybe we could talk.
Sorry, Emeril. Had to say it.
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There was another great, thought-provoking post by Rohan at Blessing of Kings today, this time discussing the consequences of large group and small group raiding to MMOs, player retention and MMO health.
I love Rohans posts, he always brings up great topics, adds his opinions or experiences, but then leaves it open for people to think about it or discuss without feeling that by dissenting they’re being confrontational. A happy place to have a conversation instead of an argument.
Silly, silly paladin, didn’t anyone ever tell him the internet is for drama?
When Rohan spoke about larger raid teams being more comfortable for some people to find a home, it spurred all kinds of sparks in my skull.
I’ll be honest with you… I probably don’t have any points to make. I just can’t resist taking a stroll down memory lane, which at my age is more like a 5 lane superhighway straight to the past, where I’ve built a summer cottage the size of the Magic Kingdom, there to spend my days.
I’ll pretend I have a point by contrasting my raiding experiences now compared to what I remember of the old, old, OLD days.
For about the last month, I’ve been raiding twice a week with two different 10-person groups.
On Saturdays I am part of a regular 10 person raid team, and on Thursdays I take part, when I can, in the guilds “Alt Night” Dragon Soul runs on a different character. Lately it’s been my Hunter.
Everyone here by now also knows that I’ve had plenty of opportunity to see the shining lights of awesome to be found in 25 person Looking For Raid.
About that, I’d like to be clear about how I feel concerning Looking For Raid. I bitch about individual players and how there always seems to be that 8% asshat quota that has no trouble getting filled for every single run. I’ll admit it.
Overall though, I remain delighted that Looking For Raid exists, and I still run it on someone every week, without exception. Sometimes on two different characters for different experiences, like Healing and ranged DPS. Still haven’t gotten tired of it, but give me five more months of this same stuff and I’ll be singing a different tune. Or caterwauling, as the case may be.
If dealing with asshats and adding them to /ignore is the price I pay for the fun I’ve had in LFR, then so be it. Give me more room in my Ignore List, and get out of my way, there are internet ultimate shadowy dragons to kill, and swaggering to do in the Eye of Eternity.
I’m pretty current on my World of Warcraft raiding. I’ve even done some Hard Modes on my Druid, up through the first four. Ooh, shiny pretty raiding.
But what about the past?
Casting my mind back over the years, I remember with fondness raiding in 40-person teams with Divine Might.
That line right there tells you this is bullshit. If I’ve somehow convinced myself that 40 person raiding was awesome, I must be delusional.
Divine Might was an absolute KICK ASS guild on Kael’thas when I first started playing the game, back in the days when the only end game raiding there was to look forward to was 40 person groups.
They had two raid teams, and at the time the progression flow in the game went as follows;
Get to level 60.
Run 5 person instances to get geared enough for the 10 person raids.
Run Blackrock Depths 5 billion times to get various people through the Ony attunement that can’t ever figure out what freaking part of the chain they’re on. Ever.
Start obsessing over Fire Resist gear.
Run 10 person raids in Upper and Lower Blackrock Spire to get geared.
Run 10 person raids in Zul’Gurub and lesser AQ to get geared. Work on Zandalari rep.
Finally join 40 person raid teams, start running Onyxia, never get your Tier. Ever. EVER.
Run Molten Core.
Run Molten Core.
Run Molten Core.
YES we still need Fire Resist gear, FFS!
Run Molten Core.
Run Onyxia. Who still needs their crafted Cloak for BWL?
Run Molten Core.
Run Molten Core.
Run Onyxia.Are we done with the damn cloaks yet? OMIGOD.
Blackwing and AQ, here we go!
Naxx? OMIGOD the attunement go go go!
Oops, too late, expansion is here, 10 man and 25 man raiding is born, bah bye 40′s, time for the guild to eat itself over raid spots.
Ooh, that sounds fun, right?
Amazingly enough, it was. It really was.
Times do change, and we grow and adapt to the game. What was fulfilling before may seem simple and even boring now, but back then, there was a spark, an excitement to follow those quests and get attuned and earn a key and get a Drakefire Amulet forged, and everything else associated with it.
Rohan is in my opinion dead right on larger raiding groups back then having room for more people of all skill levels.
In 40 person raiding, there was absolutely some wiggle room to accomodate people who were not completely obsessed with maxing every last aspect of their raiding toolkit.
I’m not saying “room for idiots”, because it wasn’t that, although a truly great raid team could certainly absorb a few people who didn’t try… or know what to do.
No, I mean people who didn’t live, eat and breathe maximizing every little aspect of their game life.
See, I recall the fight mechanics back then as being a bit more… well, unforgiving than they are these days.
Perhaps this is rose-colored welding goggles in gear, but things back then seemed tuned loose for things like pure DPS or health or healing throughput, and tuned tight for movement, situational awareness, and restraint.
For a given value of ‘Don’t move when Flame Wreath is up or you’ll wipe the damn raid”, anyway.
The key seemed to be that as long as everyone stayed alive, you would win. But in order to stay alive, every single player had to manage their location and movement and switch targeting properly, or they’d pretty much die, and maybe suck a horde of adds in on the group on top of it.
Then you’d cheer from the floor for the rest of the run, short thought it may be.
Let’s just take Onyxia as an example.
Three phases to the battle, each a long phase.
To defeat Onyxia felt immensely satisfying, even though it was like 5 packs of trash in one tunnel, then one big dragon fight in a cavern. In a world where we say Trial of the Crusader proved brief trash fights prior to a raging battle agasint one boss in a single room was a stupid idea, Onyxia felt epic.
Have you done Onyxia, old school or modern remix, and payed attention to the mechanics? They’re quite exciting.
There were fears you had to prepare for… you had to locate yourself where you knew that, when you ate the fear, you would not be forced to run so far that you would facepull the Whelps in the caves to either side.
BUT, you couldn’t be so far away from the Whelp caves that you would eat the Dragon’s breath weapon. And you had to watch where you were standing, because the cracks in the ground would erupt in bursts of lava. And the dragon would knock back whoever had aggro for miles and miles. And the dragon couldn’t be taunted, so you had to generate aggro purely through DPS threat generation, so if you pulled off the tank you were a dead bastard, and since the dragon would likely turn to face the offender, the breath weapon would splash all around.
And that’s just in phase 1!
In phase two, the dragon goes airborne, begins raining down fire and destruction upon the area, whelps burst forth from their caves to swarm the groups, madness and chaos descend… screams, shouts, epic Youtube videos and other delights are the end result.
I loved it. I really did.
My point here is, someone might not have known the ‘optimal’ rotation, have the maxed out gear and enchants, used every single tool in their toolbox… but they were not, in any way, ‘carried’.
They just didn’t put out the maximum possible DPS or Heal, but the mechanics had enough wiggle room to allow for that.
You could reasonably run a raid with a few key dedicated genuises organizing and managing everything at the top level of time investment, a bunch of people in the middle making up the majority of your run theorycrafting and looking for that extra 1% of DPS, and quite a few people at the bottom level that were ‘weekend warriors’.
You really lived or died by the competency of your raid leaders, tanks and primary healers, and they got much respect for their dedication and time investment.
Maybe I remember things differently than they were, or maybe the raiding guild I was in was atypical. Too many years gone by to recall.
Where I’m going with this is, I do agree that back then there was more room for players of all experience levels to fill in one raid from the same guild.
Where I see the drawbacks, and why I wouldn’t ever want to go back, are the difficulties I remember so well in trying to find people you knew you could work together with as a team to fill out all 40 positions, and in coordinating schedules so that all 40 people would actually be online, all at the same time, for the same chunk of playtime.
Those are the two bosses I remember destroying more raids than anything else; attendance and scheduling.
Inevitably, with groups that large, we always, always had people logging in at the last minute without food, flasks or buffs, on the other side of the continent needing summons and begging for handouts.
And then, pre-Repair Bot era, needing to hearth and get re-summoned to fix things still broken from the previous week.
I love that Rohan has given me an excuse to take a trip down memory lane, but all things taken into consideration, while I do miss the epic feel of 40 person raids, I don’t miss the scheduling conflicts, being 15 people short and trying to PUG the rest into MC, and all the rest.
If the argument is that larger raid groups make for more player inclusion in the MMO, and a healthier, more active MMO in the long run, I think Looking For Raid makes for the perfect filler between tight small group raid progression and 5 person instance heroics.
If you really want to relax and pew pew without responsibilities… LFR gives us a home to do it in!
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