The Dr00d with no guild

[Cue western music]

It was a hot day in Shattrath. A real scorcher. Tumbleweeds blew across the lower city pavement as a few lone dweebs argued semantics in [2. Trade].

The regular crew in the World’s End Tavern hoisted their brews, and cursed the heat of the day. Even the plaintive cries of Murdo, explaining that “It’s a dry heat!” did not lessen their annoyance.

Suddenly, a figure appeared, sillouetted in the door of the bar. She wore brown leathers, and held a staff in her hands that writhed with TENTACLES!
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Clearly, this was a figure of power and menace. You did see the tentacles, right?

As she entered the tavern, the crowd leaned forward, eager to see which guild this figure of power and menace hailed from.

Was it Divine Might ? Legatum Ignavis? The Bloodship?

No! The crew drew back in horror, for before them stood not a proud and valiant raider, vanquisher of the end game foe, but instead one of the unwashed, the unclean… the Guildless!


Welcome one and all to a new day in the life of Windshadow and Cassieann.

Tonight, I made the break and left Legatum Ignavis, to head off into the cold, lonely world.

I doubt there will be any lessons for anyone to learn in any of this.

I just found myself in a difficult position, without even understanding how I got there in the first place.

I’ve mentioned before how I had left a previous raiding guild because the raiding tempo was too high. But I wasn’t going to leave my new guild, no sir.

So, WTF, you might ask?

It all comes down to a final epiphany, where I suddenly realized last night that I had absolutely no reason to be frustrated with the way things were going in the guild. It wasn’t a problem with the guild, it was a problem with my vision of what the guild was supposed to be.

Back when I was invited to join the guild, there were very few players that would be online at any given time. The highest aspiration any guildie could have was running in a ten man raid like Karazhan, and those were very lofty heights for a casual player like me.

Guild ranks start with Bum, go to Little Bum, Big Bum, True Bum and so on. The Guild Leader, the Raid Leader, the other players, were all fairly relaxed and laid back people. They were very skilled in playing their characters, but didn’t take things too seriously, they didn’t get all wound up. There would generally be a scheduled Karazhan raid every week, as the guild worked to master the instance, but other than that playtime was entirely unstructured and anything was fair game. And they obviously understood about family, the Guild Leader’s wife plays in the same guild, and he has a son old enough to raid (on another server).

This was an ideal situation for me. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again; I’m not about big raids. I only want to play with friends, or people that could possibly become friends. I do not want to play with asshats, and when you get 25 dedicated hardcore raiders together for a run, you HAVE asshats. You get arrogant, bossy, judgmental and condescending people that make me want to punch my monitor. Fun? Hell no.

So here was a guild that raided a few times a week at most, and had great people in it. A casual, friendly guild that sometimes raids, right?

Right there was my problem. In my mind, that was the heart of Legatum Ignavis. And I was dead wrong.

No one ever said that was what we were about. The Guild Leader and Raid Leader and others often said that what they wanted to do was get more people in the guild, advance through the content and take on the raids someday.

I just didn’t internalize that. Not emotionally. I heard the words, but I saw the actual gameplay, I saw the slackers (that I have ranted about in the past), I saw the casual attitude, and thought, “Yes, you have high aspirations, but it takes more than 7 solid players to raid”.

Now, we fast forward over many months. The guild has succeeded beyond my wildest dreams… but not our Guild or Raid Leaders’ dreams. We are finally reaching the point they always planned for us to get to. 

I see Zul’Aman as the turning point. Once Zul’Aman was released, the solid players went into Zul’Aman and took on the challenge of beating the heck out of it. As the core players have progressed, other players on the server have joined in to see that new content. And as new players come in, more runs can be scheduled, more bosses attempted, and new progression is made. And new success brings in even more people in a domino effect. The better we do, the more folks want to join in.

Nothing succeeds like success, and I want to make sure the record shows that the people that made it happen, who started this and stuck with it, who never quit, never wavered, and never lost sight of forging Legatum Ignavis into a hardcore raiding guild were Whirlish, Joppers, Kellas, Rynadur, Gerolan and Elystia.

Others, like Occulus and Nawat took the guild a long way, but eventually had to leave for personal reasons. But those people started it, and those people stayed, and everything the guild is today is due to their hard work and dedication.

But this is the key to the whole thing. All those folks were up front about what they wanted; a hardcore raiding guild.

All I wanted was a casual, fun guild… and I had blinders on as things changed around me. I just didn’t see it happen.

As more people came into the guild, every single one of them came to raid. The guild is an absolute success.

A month ago, we had Karazhan on partial farm, usually being too lazy to take down Netherspite and Nightbane, and had the first two bosses of Zul’Aman down. The largest number of players online at one time, during peak hours, was 17.

Last night, while two Karazhan teams were in and moving forward, there were forty level 70 players online… at 11:00 PM on a weeknight.

Times change fast.

You know how overwhelmed Cassie and I have been feeling. Cassie has felt like she could sit some stuff out, but I have been just taking on the additional raids, and continuing to push. I’ve been getting increasingly frustrated, to almost rage proportions, when I try like hell to schedule raids in advance on the website to instill some order and stability to the way we did things, only to have raids thrown up at the last minute, taking up my few nights off.

This is where I was dead wrong. As a reader pointed out yesterday, the majority of players on the server would kill to be where I was today, a counted on, relied on, stable and welcomed member of a successful raiding guild, amember that had been there from the start.

But I still felt, emotionally, that I was in a casual guild. I don’t WANT to be required to play that much. Five, six days a week when you count multiple nights of ten man content are just insanely way too much for me. I still felt that this was all a mistake, that we were being way too busy and raiding way too much.

But we weren’t. The guild is raiding just fine, and the players are loving it and kicking ass.

It was only me that had my head up my butt about our plans and where we were going.

I finally realized this last night, when I was talking to our Guild Leader. Something he said, when he was talking about why he had to remove a player, finally made something click in my head.

He has been, all along, taking what actions he thought were necessary to make the guild a strong place for serious hardcore raiding.

And those of us that are casual players at heart are not going to be of much help in the long run. Not if I resent the time I’m spending away from my son.

Like I said, I finally ‘got it’ last night.

So I had to leave today.

It should come as no surprise that I have some strong opinions. But I am also decisive. If I think something through to figure out what is right for me to do, I act on it. Period. I make the decision and I take the consequences for my actions.

And I will not screw people over.

I knew today that I could not stay in a hardcore raiding guild. It’s not good enough to say “Oh, I’ll just not raid some nights.” A hardcore raiding guild needs dedicated, reliable people. Especially in the officer class. Anyone who is not pulling their own weight is not helping the guild progess.

So I knew I was going to go.

I think that when a person no longer intends to stay in a guild, the person is being dishonest if they remain guilded, coasting along, while looking for and applying to other guilds. That’s crap. If you’re in a guild, you are part of that guild. If your heart ain’t there, get the hell out and stop wasting peoples’ time.

But there was another reason why I could not wait another day.

Tonight was a Gruuls Lair run. And I was going to tank. I hadn’t signed up, but everyone knew I’d be there.

And I have max DKP. Most other people in my bracket have gotten their loot or used their DKP.

And chances were very high that my Tier 4 shoulder token would drop from high King Maulgor.

I WILL NOT be a person that takes an end-game raiding progression armor piece and then /gquits.

Not now, not ever.

So that set the time frame for me to quit. I had to take action prior to the raid so that I didn’t take loot that needs to serve the guild, and also so they had time to organize around a new tank.

I got onto Teamspeak and was lucky enough to be able to get the Guild Leader and Raid Leader and some other officers and good friends on so I could tell them in person, or at least in voice, what I was doing and why. It is the best way, I think, to make sure that, as much as possible, misunderstandings are avoided.

Then I let everyone online at the time in guild chat know what I was doing, and to thank everyone for basically kicking ass and making my time in the guild be so damn cool.

I have a lot of friends in Legatum Ignavis, and I wish them all the best. I know they will continue to kick ass without me, but that doesn’t mean I won’t miss them.

I’ve been through this once before. We can all say we’ll keep in touch, but the fact is that when you aren’t bumping into people on guild chat or Teamspeak, you tend to form new friendships in the game, especially when the friends are hardcore raiders. You log in, see they are online, go to say hi, and then note they are busy in SSC or Gruuls, and say to yourself, ‘I’ll whisper them when they get out.”

It’s sad, but true. I hope I will see them around and have the pleasure of chatting with them again.

But, it is done, and there you have it.

Big Bear Butt is now back in my little alt guild Sidhe Devils along with Cassieann, there to bum around mostly solo or in two person teams, doing quests and dailies and the other things that the game has to offer that are not WoW.

In time, I’m sure I will find some new friends, and they will want to have some fun in 5 man content, and we’ll start the guild game anew.

But let’s be honest here… I doubt I’ll ever find a guild that fits our rather unusual dream.

Looking For Guild; Feral Druid and Rogue on Kael’thas looking for a guild that is not raiding hardcore, and doesn’t ever really want to. Must consist of mature, friendly people, preferrably married couples or having children, but being emotionally mature and possessed of compassion and patience will do nicely. Interests include Karazhan runs for group activites once every week or two, occasional heroics and regular 5 man instances, doing dailies and chatting and questing. Must be willing to be patient when we have to go beddy bye time during the week. Must love Irish music and Guinness. Be prepared to have anything and everything that you do be recorded or blogged about without warning. PST.”

Yeah, we are so totally going to be guildless forever, lol.


68 thoughts on “The Dr00d with no guild

  1. Seriously. Seriously. Consider coming to Proudmoore US and raiding with my guild. We’re that casual group you’re looking for. We raid no more than 2 nights a week, with other nights reserved for group play and team stuff. We’re a great bunch-of-friends guild that values maturity, camaraderie, and a team atmosphere.

    Seriously. Talk to me. I will be pleased to give you more info. I think that you and Cassie would love our environment.

    #51 or so,


  2. I just commented on Cassie’s post, and now this. You guys act fast!

    Kudos to you for realizing that the guild’s vision did not match your own. I’ve been in the same situation (pre-BC) but incorrectly attributed my frustration to the guild progressing too quickly when that is what they wanted to do all along.

    For over a year now I’ve been unguilded or in a guild The Hubby and I have created for our characters… until last month when some RL friends started playing with us. They have a baby and are of the same mind that RL schedule determines gaming schedule. We have a lot of fun fooling around with them!

    Hang in there because there are such guilds as the one you seek. It may take some time, or a transfer (see Rhoe’s comment above) to find one, but they are out there. Heck, your guild could be it – there has got to be some players in the same boat on your server… we aren’t that much of a minority.


  3. I say you start running Kara / ZA pugs without a guild. It’s not uncommon for raiding mains to have decently geared alts that want to run these places. My guild is in BT now (only Illidan left OMG), but we run a couple of Kara pug on Friday evenings.

    You have experience. What’s more, you have the gear to fill the most difficult pug slot in a raid (der tank). So, Friday after the kid is sleeping, do a call out for a Kara pug. See if you get any bites.


  4. I hear ya, man. S’why I’m thinking on switching servers. I love my guildies and my RL friends, but what i really want in a guild, I’m not going to get on Ravenholdt.

    Best of luck to you!


  5. ““Looking For Guild; Feral Druid and Rogue on Kael’thas looking for a guild that is not raiding hardcore, and doesn’t ever really want to. Must consist of mature, friendly people, preferrably married couples or having children, but being emotionally mature and possessed of compassion and patience will do nicely. Interests include Karazhan runs for group activites once every week or two, occasional heroics and regular 5 man instances, doing dailies and chatting and questing. Must be willing to be patient when we have to go beddy bye time during the week. Must love Irish music and Guinness. Be prepared to have anything and everything that you do be recorded or blogged about without warning. PST.”

    That sounds like you are describing our guild: “Golden Dawn.” The problem is that its on Maelstrom. Its mostly parents and/or middle-aged people. We raid Kara once a week (although most guidlies don’t make it to each raid). Personally, I manage to hit it about once a month because of family committments. Apart from that there are nightly heroic groups and PvP groups, even arena teams — basically anythting that only requires about am hour or two of committed time.

    If you decide to make an alt check us out.


  6. I am very much in the same head space as you. I was at one time interested in doing everything that there is to do in this game. Now that my wife and I are expecting a baby, i know that my 4+ hours a night on the “Wowcrack” is limited. I now enjoy the nightly interaction of my guild of friends. We’ve all geared our main with whatever we could claim from heroics, and augmented the missing pieces with the pvp welfare epics. I long ago gave up my dream of being a hardcore raider because I know that it only leads to the inevitable burn out.

    Running Kara more than 2 hours at a time makes my skin crawl. I enjoy Kara, but being in those situations wiping over and over again with no change is the definition of madness. Thankfully on our low population server Drak’Thul, those who want to raid are in the few large raid guilds. Everyone else is content with what else is offered at the solo end game. I my self find that a night in a 5 man pvp squad squishing alliance to be well worth $15 a month.

    So thank you for pointing out that there are some of us playing this game because it’s a game, and not a occupation.


  7. I’m sure you’re being inundated with offers for guild invites. This is probably not much different.

    On Earthen Ring. I’m an officer in a guild called Lemming Juice. We’re a mature, both physically, and emotionally, guild of people that enjoy playing all aspects of the game. We’re not a raiding guild. We’re not an RP guild. We’re not PvP. We’re a social guild, that does a little bit of everything. If you would like to learn more, feel free to read our forums at If you’re interested in coming, I’ll find a way to handle the interview process before you have to commit to a server transfer.

    Fair warning, as one of the sticky notes in the application folder will explain. Being a member of Lemming Juice does not mean you’re given a spot on any raid. The raids are best looked at as being run by Lemmings, but not by Lemming Juice.

    If you’re interested, feel free to send me a message on the forums, I check it regularly.


  8. Yeah probably a wise decision. As mentioned, I’m in a hardcore raiding guild. I raid only twice a week. We only have 3 scheduled nights of activity. Anyway those types of guilds are out there if you want 25man content. I refuse to be in a guild that is doing stuff 5x a week, and requires you to be there for all that time.

    So guilds you can use. The above guild is hardcore but has rules: no more than 3x a week of guild progression nights, you can do less but you may not have first priority on raid signup.

    Another guild (my old guild), very much a ‘we’ll go to kara with whoever’s on’ type guild. Attendance aboslutely not mandatory. They usually do a heroic every day. This type of guild might go well with you.

    Most important thing is to have fun.


  9. Congratulations on your newfound freedom!

    I second (or third, fourth, whatever) the idea a few people have stated already.

    Start your own guild and set the requirements exactly the way you want.

    Somehow I’ve been lucky enough to be Guild leader of a ridiculously laid back guild. Lots of people have left, a very few have been kicked because we are a little TOO laid-back about the loved/desired/dreaded PROGRESSION – but after (almost) one year of being in existence… we are finally getting into Kara, or at least getting attuned, even though it’s not required anymore.

    And now that we can go into Kara – we’ll get there sometime. But there’s no rush. We’re having fun, and we’re REALLY enjoying playing together.

    Good luck in your endeavors. But I say take control and do it YOUR way!


  10. By the way, and totally unrelated… a feral druid and rogue husband/wife team is great fun!

    Why is that? So your significant “stealthed” other can sneak up on you while you’re hybernating and backstab you with annoyance? ROFLMAO


  11. Hey B3 – As this is the end of a long, but fascinating, chain I just wanted to say that I respect you even more for the hard decision you and Cassie made here. I am in a great guild very much like you are looking for on Mok’Nathal. We recently lost members because we are not hard core enough for them. We have done Kara, or at least a few have, but we are not obsessed with raiding and stick to 5 mans pretty much on a casual basis. Most of us are leveling alts, questing, doing dailes, bg’s and arena, or grinding for rep. When not doing any of the above, we are helping each other level up. We have developed the core belief to have fun, stop not having fun, and all you have to do is ask and we will come running. Promotions are actually based on how much you are willing to help others. I myself am the ultimate “completist” and having hit 70 on my first toon 6 weeks ago (DPS warrior) have vowed to see as much as I can to get my monies worth. Great blog and I hope you appreciate the community and discussion your decision to leave the guild has generated. I know I have.


  12. Hey B3 – congrats on the hard decision.

    As others have said, there are guilds out there like the dream guild you described. In fact I would say my guild is exactly like that (Soulbound on realm Proudmoore). We only have to serious raid nights a week (sat/sun aussie nights) with kara runs tossed together when people are keen on other nights.

    If you guys are keen for this type of guild and havent had any luck yet – Tabby (Tabatha) is always keen to have more mature couples joining up.

    Great blog by the way – I Hope whichever way you decide to go that things work out well 🙂


  13. good post.

    i am in the same situation and have been for sometime.

    pre -bc i was in a guild that started off fairly casual but ofc with new members coming on board seeing us progress it got more hardcore and people began to fall out with previous ‘friends’ who were there from the casual days.

    i got dispensation to actually only raid 2 or 3 times a week when they required new members joining to raid 4 times minimum.

    with a job and a wife 2/3 times 4 hrs a night plus time for getting consumables etc was a lot.

    by the time BC came this raid guild had imploded with the hardcore all joining the guilds regularly running Naax (we were farming MC / BWL but were still moving slowly through AQ40).

    i moved servers – a few friends came but soon got bored of wow / moved on to consoles etc.

    after taking a break i came back as the only member of my guild ! Lol.

    i got to know a guy through some quests together and he joined my guild after he got kicked from his guild cos he could not raid several nights a week despite being in the guild – a casual guild – from its inception !

    so i doubled the membership at a stroke 😉 and with him having a holy priest we suddenly found ourselves with a tank and healer for lvl 70 5 mans – which meant we always found a grp for a 5 man 🙂

    we now have the sum total of 4 members ! and we run heroics most nights with someone we know whose in a bigger guild usually but on an off-raid night ! and for a while we actually had 5 members :p but one left for a Kara guild.

    it works for us and its enjoyable. 2 of the 4 are married and are big pvp’ers so if nothing is happening 5 man wise they are more than happy to return to pvp.

    i would like to be seeing more of the end game content but my life – now including a 19 week old baby boy – does not and will not allow it.

    GL in your future WoW BBB.


  14. When you find that guild, let me know. That is exactly the type of guild I am hoping to find on my server.
    My wife an I find ourselves in almost the same situation. We are in a 3 person guild, the remmants of our first. The “boys” started it after they got us to playing. They have moved on, burned out or just gave up. Meanwhile the Mrs and I and my brother are still plugging away.
    Shazira, mt wife, is a BG maniac. Shercules, my brother, too has decked himself out in BG PvP gear. Whle poor ole Clapus has his early Kara tanking gear, some cat gear and 20 badges, 3 from the new Sunwell dailies.
    What’s next for us, who knows? I guess we are just 3 ronin wandering the wilds of Gurubashi doing what good we can. It works for us, we are still having fun.
    Good luck to you and Cassieann.


  15. Hey BBB, always love reading your blog postings though I really don’t play a druid. Though I’m sorry to hear about your situation you made the right decision in leaving. Its what makes you happy within the boundaries of how you interact and play the game and what’s fun for you and the Mrs.

    Im on somewhat of a Hiatus from WoW but your situation is not that far from mine what happened to me about 2-3 weeks back. Its was a tough decision to leave my casual guild as one of 2 dedicated tanks and me being a very good geared Kara OT. Due to looking at direction the guild/members was going and many other things that was problematic I decided to leave on my own after talking with the GM. Its a tough thing to decide to leave a guild you also help gear and participate in building. But all the same I left back in to the wilderness of being Guildless. Its not so bad being guildless you just feel more free without stress. Instead of making any decision to do anything for a while or consider my decisions going forward. I just decided to take a Hiatus from WoW for a while. So yeah i know how you feel and what your going through.

    I’ve read your blog on and off for a while and looking at what your looking for in a guild those are really great ideal to look for as it fits what you and the Mrs want in how you play WoW. The best thing I would say is to “Create Your Own Guild” and thus you have the foundation to create the guild you wish to be in. Whatever you do hope it all works out and Im sure to read about it at some point.


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