A brief discussion about my attitude (in fun)

Nobody has said so, but I’d like to own up to it right up front.

I DO have an attitude in the game.

There, I said it. And it’s totally true.

My problem?

I have set an expectation, in my mind, for other people to live up to.

And that expectation is, to my mind, very simple.

I expect people to behave in the game as they would in person. I expect people to be polite and considerate of others.

Someone doesn’t have to ninja loot to get on my mental shit list, my friends.

They just have to act without consideration for someone else’s feelings, or be rude or selfish.

Now, maybe a lot of these folks that rub me the wrong way really act like that in person. Maybe if you bumped into Asdjutdx in the Food Court of your local mall, and your clothes weren’t up to his sartorial standards, he’d tell you that your shoes suck, and that you’re a loser, right to your face.


But the amazing thing is, I have been out in public now, walking around in all sorts of public places, for over 40 years… and I have yet to ever have anyone act to my face the way they do in the game, and then pretend like it is accepted, normal behavior.

Amazing, huh? All these rude people in the game, just being themselves, right? It’s acceptable behavior, right? No big deal?

But I’m walking around in the real world, and where are they? C’mon, if that’s how they act all the time, if that’s acceptable behavior, I should have run into ONE of them by now.

But no! Not even in Gamestop or the comic shop! 

Where the hell are they? Shut-ins living in mommie’s basement?

Maybe schools have changed and kids really do act like this to strangers, but that’s NOT how I grew up.

Kids did NOT act like this in my High School. Not with the same sense of wild abandon.

I went to school in downtown Miami, where we had metal detectors and drug sniffing dogs and shooting-related deaths years before Columbine. Violence in schools didn’t just start 5 or 6 years ago, my friends, despite what the media portrays in the States. It’s horrible, but it was a fact of my life growing up, and I daresay most kids who are now my age dealt with it in one way or another. Miami was just one city in a really big country, and those were interesting times to be alive.

If you got into the same level of rudeness in my school that you see in game… and, sure, it happened… the knives came out not long after. You got a lot of shouting and pushing matches, but they were pretty controlled, there were usually ways you could make sure everyone could walk away with respect. If you backed someone into a corner where they had to put up or lose face, well, you knew that you’d better keep a grip or be prepared for the next step. And the next step was pretty damn ugly.

The point being, people ran their mouth in person just like in the game… but they knew damn well what the consequences were going to be. Some of them did it just for an excuse to start shit, but what they were starting wasn’t a flame war via email. And they didn’t pretend it was appropriate behavior. Everyone knew damn well what was going on. Nobody said, “Wait, wut, lol?”

Now, unless things have just totally flipped on their ear since I was in High School, people who act that way in game know exactly how to control themselves in public, because they know if they act the fool in the Food Court they’re gonna get the shit beat out of them by someone that is totally lacking a sense of humor, and is having a bad day.

So that’s the standard I have set in game in all my personal interactions. That people act in the game with the same level of courtesy, consideration, and politeness that they already know is appropriate in the real world.

If the people I meet in game do not live up to that standard… I think of them exactly as I would if they acted like that IN MY FACE.

In other words, as people that aren’t worth a second of my time. People I wouldn’t want to spend ANY time with, now or in the future, in or out of the game. People that, if I someday were to meet them in the real world, would get told the same as I write here… stop acting like a dick and grow up, nobody is impressed.

If you look over things I’ve said about behavior in the past that pisses me off, especially things that probably don’t seem worth mentioning or thinking twice about, that’s where it comes from.

Pure and simple, if you say it in game, but you’d never in a million years say it in public to someone’s face where they could get their hands on you?

Yeah, grow up.

One of the main reasons I left raiding guilds, about equal to the time demands of consistent raiding, is that in those guilds I have been a part of in the past, there have always been people like that. People that are asshats to other folks, and who are not only tolerated but coddled because they are a necessary class or a reliably present player for raids and progression. Or, God forbid, an officer.

Life’s just too damn short for that, man.


Yes, I’ve got an attitude. I am fully aware of it. And I consider it to be a personal character flaw for me to be so judgmental. I really do.

But on the other hand… I have my standards for what I think is appropriate behavior. My minimum standard is that you treat other people just like you’d like to be treated.

And I try very hard to only associate with other people that are the same way.

I will end this mini-rant/explanation with a pretty nice conversation I had with a stranger Cassie and I met in Nagrand.

We were leveling my Shaman and her Paladin in Outlands. I was 65 or so, she was the same. We were leveling on our own, but once we had a zone’s worth of group quests built up, we brought our mains over to clear them out. She had skipped Zanagarmarsh to do Terokkar, and I’d gone the other way. We are both in Northrend on these alts now, she dinged 70 yesterday and I dinged 69.

However, at the time we were in Nagrand, and we both had the Ring of Blood quests available to do.

I told Cassie to get to Ring of Blood, I got my alt there too, and then I logged out and got my Druid to run her through.

There was a group there already, a bunch of appropriately leveled characters and a level 80 healing paladin from Green Dragonflight.

They were just hanging out, so I grouped with Cassie, she started the first fight, I went in and we cleared it together. One after another, we burnt through the fights, my Druid and Cassie’s Paladin.

With Cassie cleared, we swapped. I brought my Shaman onboard, she brought her Rogue.

So here are these two Sidhe Devils at Ring of Blood that blasted through it, and they disappear, and moments later, here are two other Sidhe Devils… I wonder what they plan on doing?

Well, I got a whisper from one of the guys that had been waiting, a player named Korso. He asked if we were going to run it again, and if so could he join us? They were waiting for the healer to return, but had no idea where he went.

I said sure, of course. And invited him to group.

I asked the guy what stage of the quest he was on, so we didn’t get out of sync. You KNOW what a pain that can be, when one person starts the fight before the other is done turning in. Then stuff has to get done twice, it’s a mess.

Well, this guy is just… a nice guy. He is patient, he actually types complete sentences, after every fight he rushes back to the quest giver… then STOPS, and types out “okay, ready to go” and WAITS for me to start the next phase.

How rare is that shit? I know!

So we blast through Ring of Blood with Cassie tanking it on her Rogue, and with Korso helping out. It was fun.

Afterwards, I thanked him for not only being a good player, but for being so on top of things, it was just refreshing, especially after so many other pugs lately.He says, sure, anytime, and then I see him /say to the others that had been standing around, ‘Sure invite me to your group again, I’ll still help you guys finish it.”

So the other group came back fro afk and saw he’d done it already… and he said he’d stay and help them finish. He didn’t bail on them. I love seeing that kind of thing, and I noticed and remembered it. “Note to self, Korso is a nice guy.”

What, you folks think I only take note of asshats? Oh heck no, I have a nice person list too!

We wave and take off… and Cassie Rogue Evasion-tanks Durn the Hungerer with me as heals.

Yeah, that’s right. Cassie took down Durn. She’s a badass.

Anyway, so lately we’ve had a lot of folks playing their alts just like us, right in the “Welcome to frosty Northrend” level range. Probably as many as 10 of us are all at 68 – 72 on various characters, scattered between Borean and Howling Fjord.

Yesterday, I get a whisper out of the blue. It’s from Korso, who I see is now also in Northrend. I think it speaks for itself.



I’m not unique or crazy, and my expectations are not over the top or unrealistic. Because there’s an entire guild of folks with the same values as me right here, and I bet there are plenty of other guilds just like us on every server there is.

It’s amazing how much fun you can have when you decide you are only going to play with people that all feel the same way.

You don’t HAVE to put up with asshats just to have fun in a video game.

42 thoughts on “A brief discussion about my attitude (in fun)

  1. If it would have been possible I would have given serious though about transferring to join you after reading this post.

    We all play this game to have fun and enjoy ourselves, and so does everyone else, and if people are nice to each other it gets much more enjoyable. The problems are those who are just thinking of themselves, and maybe their close friends, but never give a though to what someone else is thinking or feeling.

    In my mind my reputation among other players are even more important then then reputation of whatever faction. My major flaw though is that I tend to forget that not everyone know as much, or more, about the content we are attempting. It’s so easy for me to forget how little I knew and how it was to be new to the game, your class or the content. And therefore I tend to have a bit high expectations, but I try to remember every now and then.



  2. Hiya, found your article linked through my guild forum (Ad Astrum, Duskwood realm). While I’m relatively new to the guild, we do have an ‘asshat’ policy, though it’s not called that exactly. I’ve played on several different servers, both Alliance and Horde, and there always seem to be a few people on each server whose sole purpose is to mouth off, act up and irritate people. Why?

    I don’t know. Maybe they’re the ones who get picked on in school and this is their way of ‘getting back’ at the world. Maybe they hate their jobs at McDonald’s and Blockbuster. Or maybe they’re just socially maladjusted and this is their sole source of attention-getting. Whatever the case, it seems as though each month I have take time out of my play to go through my ‘ignore’ list and remove people just to make room for the new irritants (why is there a limit on ignores, anyway?).

    I’m sure there’s a small universe of reasons that these people do what they do but the fact of the matter is that it really doesn’t matter. I propose that Blizzard create a new, special realm exclusively for those people who just can’t seem to get into the swing of things and are compelled to act the fool. Call it ‘Asshatatonia’ or something. I’ve written Blizz several times and have even offered to help with suggestions, but they have yet to respond. Ingrates.


  3. Oh my gosh! That’s me! I really don’t know what to say. I’m very flattered. I was bored at home today and googled Sidhe Devils and found this here bear blog. After years of dreading dealing with other people in WoW due to the almost required “asshattery” that comes out of a PvP server, it really has been nice to be somewhere and see other people acting like humane humans. Hats off to Sidhe Devils! Anytime, any place you guys need anything, you let me know. Man, I am just tickled pink! (Which is hard to do when you’re an undead gnome in the frozen north:-)


  4. I hate alliance, every race, every dance, every animation and laugh sound effect.

    I hate them, ugly ugly pinkskins and squidfaced spacegoats.

    May the heads of the alliance be infested with the fleas of a million camels.

    And after reading this, I want to re-roll ally just to be a part of your guild, because of this post. Cheers brother


  5. Thanks for the spot-on post, BBB, you hit the nail on the head. I’ve found that my

    Now. I’m not quite sure if I’m feeding the troll here, but Gevlon: Comparing a bunch of undisciplined 12-30 year olds playing a computer game in the unstructured safety of their own homes with the conditions in a professional army is the pinnacle of self-delusion.

    There are no consequences that matter in this game. None. Purp boots not shiny? So what? Who cares? Who thinks that is truly important? Are you going to get banned for a week in WoW for not having the “right” gear? Are you going to be grounded? Is mommy not going to cook your macaroni for you? Oh, your “friends” aren’t going to let you play with them? Some friends they are. You’re not a soldier, you’re playing a computer game.

    If you truly believe that farming for purpz while sitting in your underwear is akin to serving in the armed forces, I think you need to sign up to serve and get an attitude adjustment. We’ll set you straight.


  6. When I was a kid, it was basically like your childhood as well. Yes, there was the problem of violence, but kids learned to show respect even to their opponents. The same was true when I was in the ROTC.

    Then I became a teacher, and the complete lack of consequences that kids do not have to face now seems to coincide with their utter lack of respect (both for themselves and others).

    The most annoying other consequence about this is that, as a result, they assume that I do not respect them either; and not just in real life. Recently, in-game, I was helping my spouse’s alt complete the final step of the Drakuru quest line. I waited on the roof where a Horde Death Knight was also waiting (probably for the same reason that we were). My spouse began the event and promptly got aggro, but did not get her mind-controlled troll to attack Drakuru swiftly enough so she died. My gorriladin also died and I FD’d. The DK, however, started attacking when I feigned and I thought “How kind… he’s helping out.” He kept Drakuru’s attention on him long enough for my spouse to come back and rez to continue where we left off (all this time, Drakuru remained “red” to us). With the trolls being properly handled, we “killed” him, watched the Lich King event, and looted the skull. I went up to the Horde DK and /ty him.

    And he spat at me. Not once… he virtually spammed the spittle at me. I couldn’t understand. He logged off… into his lvl 1 Alliance toon and said “WTF, why did you steal kill.” I was too shocked to reply, so I went “Excuse me?” He demanded why we stole the Drakuru kill for him and his group. This, despite the fact that we started the event and, as I had already experienced, it doesn’t matter who kills him everyone can loot the skull. He was frothing at the mouth and it was all I could do to placate him (I was taken by surprise).

    And later he kept insisting that they can no longer try to finish the encounter because they cannot “loot” Drakuru. And it was all our fault.

    It only occurred to me later (l’esprit d’escalier) that actually he had tried stealing our kill, hoping we can bring him down low enough for him to solo effectively… and thought that we did to him what he did to us. How does one deal with such things? Even if I had been on a PvP server (which we were not), and managed to exact retribution, would I have been able to clear our reputation (I know Greedy Goblin says nobody cares or notices, but there are so many instances I can name that shows that it isn’t always true)?


  7. I would have offered Korso an informal invite to my guild. Sounds like a class act. Which is saying alot, since my guild tag is reserved for my wife, myself, and our closest personal friends. (We run with a raiding alliance between several guilds on Medivh which is very casual friendly– casual timeframe, hardcore skill.)

    I will say that even the immature leet speaking kids that organize my Arch10 PUGs try their best to be good to the folks in the run, in most cases.

    And no, it’s not “Kids these days.” It’s parents. Kids are insulated from repercussions of their attitude by no tolerance to fighting in schools. They can run their mouth all day because even the teachers are afraid to discipline them for fear of lawsuits from enraged parents. It’s “never” the kids fault, because precious little Jimmy and Sally can’t possibly be at fault, right?

    Sigh. Now I am all depressed.

    Anyway, it’s Tuesday, so I get to Pug vault on my 80’s! Wheee!


  8. I think too often we forget that faction rep isn’t the only thing we get in this game. I’ve been blessed with a low pop pvp server for quite a few years now. Most of the server knows one another by name – either via forums or game – and it is awesome to know those quality people that just make things fun. It has been hard to see tranfers hit our realm in the past weeks but at the same time it is a lot of fun to immediately see those same quality names show up in the transfer’s discussions of people on our server. And who knew, nice people transfer sometimes too so we got a few more to add to the pack 🙂


  9. I’m really of the opinion that your behavior in-game is very much indicative to your TRUE personality – the person you are when you aren’t putting up appearances for your boss, family, or “real life” friends. The way you behave to others when you think your “real” friends aren’t watching, or when you won’t get “caught.”

    Are you an ass in game but a nice guy in the real world? Then you’re probably really an ass, you just pretend to not be an ass outside of game because you can’t so easily get away from “real” people. Now, everyone has their day of just being in a bad mood, it’s the general trend that’s the real point.

    So when I see people in game who are polite, courteous, or respectful, that tells me that this person is likely a genuinely decent human being. And that’s the kind of person I’ll go out of my way to hang with over the asshats.


  10. 100% with you on this… If I commit to something in game, it’s the same as committing out of game. I can’t stand people who make up outlandish “real life” excuses, after no-showing. The reason people act like dicks in game, I think, is down to consequence. In reality, behaving like an ass will get you punched, or impact on your life in other nasty ways. In WoW, you can’t do anything to an asshat – there is no penalty for behaving badly.

    I think it’s terribly sad, but this appears to be a reflection of real life. If people feel like they can get away with something, most will do it, without regard for consequences, especially not to other people. That’s the world we live in.


  11. Good on ya BBB. Keep the attitude and pray that one day a pug 25 man raid of all Asshats implodes on itself from shear stupidity and Asshatedness.
    On another note you have that eternal highest Asshat award on your blog (Kael’thas Hall of Shame) drop some of the negativity and do one for the stars as well. They deserve more recognition than the asshats.

    Echo Isles


  12. a nice ending to the post 🙂
    seriously though i totally agree, treat others like you want to be treated etc.
    it’s such a simple thing and yet it appears to be too hard for some people. *shrug* asshats will be asshats. they don’t have the capability of anything else.


  13. I genuinely don’t understand people who act like idiots in game. It’s not that hard to be pleasant to people and it makes for a better all around experience.

    On the other hand, I’m sure there’s been at least one Pug I was a shouty idiot on myself. A VoA 25 man, where half the hunters (my own class) were doing less DPS than my pet and were taking aggro off the off tank by never feigning or MDing.

    Frustration can kill manners in any area.


  14. Maybe it’s that those people who subscribe to blogs and read up on the game are those who are more mature in years (or just uin general) than those who spend all their time in game thinking that for some reason their own opinion or game time has more value than someone elses. I consider being in a good group a privilege rather than a right and treat it as such. It’s jsut a shame that a decent pug is the exception rather than the norm.

    I totally agree with you BBB.


  15. I’m surprised you don’t think most people would agree with you because most of the replies you get to your posts seem to be from reasoned intelligent individuals and most of them don’t dish out the same kind of crap that you’ve been writing about :).

    Because of the issues of abuse I simply don’t PUG any more. I have a pretty well geared tank, I can tank any heroic you care to name, have been working through Spider and Construct quarters recently with no aggro issues but I only do it with my guild for 2 reasons. First, because I know them well and most can play their class superbly and second because I’m tired of all the crap that gets dished out in PUGs, mainly to tanks and healers, by idiots who think it’s the right thing to do.

    Everyone gets frustrated with other players at some time or another. Even guildies sometimes have off days, but as you’ve stated there’s no reason to act like a dick.


  16. you do see that kind of behaviour in day to day life. you are just not looking the right way.

    let me elaborate. ever met a group of well build of huligans? a large bunch of them? ever seen a guy picking on another smaller guy? yeah well it’s there. you may not see it as often in game but it’s there. what makes it less obvious is that .. well when they act like that they are taking a risk. as you sayd the risk to get reprimanded by someone else. this risk goes down in numbers usualy or if they think they are stronger then the other. yeah it’s like the bully attitude. it’s not just the bully attitude .. sometimes it’s the way people look at you or talk you behind your back.

    in real life you are not usualy disrespectfull to someone else because you take a risk and you are responsible for your actions. it doesn’t stop you from thinking it thow. you just don’t say it out loud that often. (ps. i’m talking in general here .. “you” beeing any person not someone specific). ofcourse this behaviour differs from person to person .. some are more considerate then others .. but in a smaller or larger degree everyone does it.
    so what makes it so much worse in the game. the lack of risk. there is no risk on the internet (not just the game btw). you can be a complete jerk on the net .. and nothing happens to you. well yeah you can lose some friends if you are a jerk to them .. but unless they are real life friends .. you don’t lose anything tangible. this is worse however in kids and teenagers. why .. well because they have very little sense of responsability. they are at an age they should be learning it and francly some of them learn it the hard way. you see that less in older people because moust of them have a higher sense of responsability for the actions they take, be them tangible or not. doesn’t mean they are all saints but moust don’t act that way(this is the reason our guild has an age requierment).

    so basicly .. it’s a bit of psicology. anyways .. i don’t know what you can do about it. aside from befriending and supporting nice people.
    what is worse is that kids are very affected by this. because moust of them spend alot of time on the internet (not just the games) and they lose touch with the reality. they thus have a harder time adjusting and learning to take responsability.


  17. I definitely agree with you, I don’t put up with that type of attitude in real life and I won’t tolerate it while I’m enjoying myself within WOW. I treat people how I want to be treated in the real and virtual world, just because you’re anonymous does not give you any reason to act like a total ass. People like that make it to my Karma Addon with a big negative score, and a comment on why they earned that mark. I put the many friendly people I’ve met on that list too. 😉


  18. I replied to your message on the VoA run with a story of major asshattery my wife ran into. It’s her second occasion to be reamed out by idiots that don’t understand aggro management or how to avoid pulling adds. Last time this happened she wouldn’t group with anyone but friends and family for months. I hope this time she has a thicker skin.

    I’ve cleaned up the language, but Penny Arcade summed it up: Anonymity + Audience = Asshattery. I’ve seen it since I first got a Usenet News feed in the 80s. It is no better today.

    I don’t mind the Chuck Norris jokes in the Barrens. I don’t mind some joking around and letting your hair down. But the torrent of stupid vulgarity in Trade Chat is wearing. If I didn’t need to watch it for LFM pleas and Enchant requests, I’d disable it. Sigh.

    I’ve also found that chatting in complete sentences with punctuation and captial letters seems to raise the tone in discussions in WoW.


  19. You said it well. I try to do the same. I can’t always help someone and sometimes I’m just not in the mood to help someone, but if I can’t come up with a really good reason not to help I usually do anyway. I also try and remember that people have bad days, so I usually give people a bit of slack, which I get the impression you do as well.

    I’ve always felt that the players on the other side of the screen deserved respect, unless and until they show otherwise.

    As for kids nowadays, I suspect that they are no more or less rude than we were, they just have different ways of showing it. Every generation seems to think the younger one is screwed up, all the way back.

    As for rudeness online, I’m sure it’s just what everyone suspects. Anonymity makes it easier to be a jerk. It’s much harder when your actions and words might turn into a beating. Jay and Silent Bob may have had the right idea 🙂

    Comparing WoW to military service is like comparing one of those paper poppers to a nuke. Seriously, not even in the same realm. Even so, when I was in the service, if you were a jerk you could guarantee there were repercussions for your actions, both official and unofficial. The service is not what you watch on TV and showing up to a raid with crap gear _is_ the behavior that is poor, whether through asshattery or ignorance. The former should get you booted, the latter could hopefully be remedied through polite instruction, if offered.


  20. one of my favorite podcasts (Octale and Hordak vs the World) maintains the idea that when you say something in a chat channel people should be able to get your address when they shift click your name. I think that would cut down on a lot of asshatery.


  21. I totally agree BBB, I expect the same thing from other players and sometimes, I am just let down. I can not believe that some people say the things they say. Some people are just so rude, and I do not understand how they can think that is fine in the company of others. Well, thank you for voicing your opinions, I thought I was one of the few that felt this way.


  22. It consistently amazes me, the comments you folks make.

    I publish some of my honest thoughts EXPECTING to get flamed for being judgmental or for taking how people act in game too seriously, and instead of getting flamed by the majority, it seems most of you, if not agree with me, at least agree that there is no reason to have to put up with immature behavior either in game or out, and that it’s not something that we should just accept as ‘the way things are now’ and put up with it, suffering in silence.

    You folks rock.


  23. BBB,

    Your point is well taken, and though I’m asking you to take it on faith, I am NOT one of the asshats of which you speak. That said, I frequently act differently in the game than I would in real life. I am the first person to admit that I act a little more vulgar, perhaps sometimes a little more immature, and certainly have a lower threshold for impoliteness. Is that bad? Maybe, but I spend my day at work, well dressed, infinitely polite and courteous; so when someone ganks my herb node and I whisper “Have some manners you [censored]” and /ignore ignore them, I don’t sweat it at all. Would I curse out someone who stole my parking space at the grocery store? Nope.

    I’m a different person with my girlfriend than I am at work. I’m a different person in the game than I am in real life. Heck, I’m a different person when I play my rogue than when I play my Druid. Just something to think about. That said, I think it’s awesome that your guild is well mannered and helpful, keep it up.


  24. Cannot agree with you more 3B, live in and grew up in North Miami (American High Class of 88) so I remember that same time period you are talking about. If the lights went out at school you got your back to a wall FAST. The point is children (and I know we thought we were adults, but we were children) did not behave the way they do towards adults today.

    The internet has empowered these kids to behave in ways they never would in real life. I think this comes from the fact that there are no real consequences (in their minds) to their actions. Even if they act like an asshat today and you refuse to group with them at a later date they just find someone else, and claim you are the asshat for taking this “game” to serious. The only way to truly “punish” this behavior requires actions that we neither want nor would we waste our time doing. So they just keep acting this way. I guarantee if they were playing this game on the family TV and their parents could see their behavior they would not act like they do, and the adult asshats (and there are plenty of those) would not behave that way if their peers could see them.

    It’s my guild (Delu Elvellyn- Blackwater Raiders) has an 18 an over policy unless it is a child of a guildmate. It’s amazing what a difference it makes in play experience. I keep general and trade chat off unless I need it, and I enjoy the game SOO much more.


  25. HEY! Keep it up with that attitude BBB and you’ll overpopulate your server. Count me in as one that is thinking of popping over there – like you need another feral druid though. 😀

    Totally concur. Although I’m a bit of a hypocrite in that I’m much more vocal in calling out asshattery in WOW than I ever would in r/l. In r/l I usually just walk away and leave the obliviots to their idiocy. In WOW, I’ll call you out, email your GM, smack you upside the head and call your mother.

    @Elearin – know your guild and I’d agree with your assessment – good folks (Eilthoras – The Squirrel Squadron)


  26. I totally agree and I have to admit that while I am very shy in game (as in, I tend to not whisper people I don’t know and avoid organizing anything), I try to also be very polite and speak up and speak in complete sentences most of the time.

    It’s pretty shameful how some people act – I know my guild has a pretty great rep because we try to treat everyone fairly and respectfully and we try very hard to just have fun.

    Anyway BBB, it’s great to hear that there’s still people around who have gratitude when they get helped out.


  27. @gevlon

    No, they still deserve to be treated politely. You can tell them that maybe next time they should have more knowledge of a fight or you can tell them they have itemized poorly, but just because they failed doesn’t mean they deserve to be treated with contempt.

    Not everyone has time to be up on all boss/mob tactics or the intricacies of their class. If you were willing to invite them to group with them, you signed up for the possibility. I would bet that every person you look at in this way is trying to the best of their ability, but given a lack of knowledge as it pertains to the situation, they fail.

    And no, this is not the military…that’s what raids are for. I would expect better in a raid. A 5-man is another story. That’s more like the 5 friends wandering around in Shaun of the Dead 😛


  28. I expect people to behave in the game as they would in person. I expect people to be polite and considerate of others.

    This this this this this. I am 20 years younger than you and I agree.

    You’re also making me want to roll an alli on kael’thas, your guild sounds awesome.


  29. I could not agree more BBB. In real life I do occasionaly have to put up with asshats, in a game not so much.

    @Ara, no one has to change their expectations simply because the world is virtual. If others want to have an asshat subculture they can do it without me. I would rather quit than deal with it, fortunately silence is just an /ignore away.

    @Asara Every time I read one of these I am tempted to roll an alt over there, so it’s not just you that thinks that way.


  30. We have suffered a big split with the WOTLK and at first it was very hard. I switched mains because I did not want to deal with all the grief. I have recently realized that this split was for the better. This post helped me remember the old days when I used to hear things like this about my guild all the time. Thank you for reigniting this flame of reality. Yes the internet culture fosters this type of behavior, and NO we do not need to tolerate, coddle, or support it. Thanks for the great post.


  31. I agree with you completely, BBB. I have the exact same standards for people that I group with and so does my guild (Order of the Brotherhood on Thunderhorn). In fact, that’s really the only requirement that we have of our guildmates- be nice!

    @ ARA: I don’t agree that you have to change your standards for video game. Are you going to have a harder time finding nice people in-game versus out-of-game? Yes. That’s because you’re 100% right about the internet anonymity fostering asshat behavior. However, I think that there are enough decent people out there that you can find plenty of like-minded folks to play with if you look hard enough and maintain your standards. It will certainly make the game more fun.

    The truth is for me that I would play this game 100% solo if there weren’t people in Azeroth like Korso and BBB.


  32. BBB, you should write a book like “Life: The Rules of the Road” or something of that nature. This post is spot on.

    Why is it that people think that hiding behind a bunch of pixels automatically gives them a license to act the fool? I think it would be fun if the emote system included more descriptive things like:

    /wtf? “You stare at in disbelief not really sure that they just did what they just did.” has automatically been added to your /ignore list.
    /youarekidding “Really? No, I mean really? You’re THAT stupid/rude/much of an asshat?”
    /kingasshat – gives the offending player the title of “King Asshat of ” for the next 24 hours, changes their head-piece to a Dunce cap and lowers their intellect, stamina or strength by 500.
    /bitchslap – well, this one is self-explanatory.

    Anyway, just my two pennies.


  33. You tempt me to change servers, BBB.
    I find myself getting tired of the asshat-coddling attitude from time to time, but suck it up for lack of anywhere else to go. I’ve stuck to the same guild for so long, I only know a few people outside of it. One has offered me a place in their guild, but I don’t know if I could handle the flak I’d get from my GL, because I’ve been there so long, and he’s one of the best WoW friends I have. So if I go anywhere, it would have to be to a new server. I hope I can look you up if I ever get completely overwhelmed and have $ saved up to transfer all of my necessary toons. 🙂


  34. Personally I think you have to adjust your expectations in a video game. Its internet culture – its different from RL “flesh” culture. It just is. Its different, and there are good reasons why. So I think its an unrealistic expectation. Do you see the way Blizzard get abused on their official forums? And yet they hang in there, and respond with dignity and respect even to the worst posters… because they know internet anonymity fosters that culture. They ask for a higher standard of players for sure – but they dont expect every player to rise to the occassion. That’s what thread locks & forum bans are for. So I believe you’re fighting a loosing battle if you expect people to behave the same on the internet as they do in RL.


  35. I know a place where people would definitely tell you that your shoe suck and you are a total loser: the military.

    Imagine that you show up to a mission deployment in tennis shoes, some trousers from the salvation army, a worn worker shirt, a cowboy hat and a BB gun in your hands. Obviously without reading a single line from the briefing material, having no idea what the enemy has and what the mission objective is.

    I guess you may get some really nice comment from the others.

    This is not the Sims, were players live in a simulated town. We are in a simulated army fighting the Lich King. Those who show up ungeared and without knowing the boss bring us to our simulated death and don’t deserve politeness.


  36. I totally agree. Unfortunately, I think many kids *do* act this way to each other nowadays. Our house is adjacent to a park, and I see a lot of the neighborhood kids come up here, where they think they can’t be seen by adults. Their behavior and language is TERRIBLE. It’s really sad, and part of the reason that my 4 kids don’t go to the local public school. My 8th grade “geek girl” also frequently complains about how disrespectful kids are to each other in her classes.

    Every once in a while, I’m pleasantly surprised by someone in game, usually when I’m feeling like the only sane person who plays. 🙂


  37. I expect people to behave in the game as they would in person. I expect people to be polite and considerate of others.

    Wow. I thought that was just me…


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