Dual Spec? I agree with the Noob!

Forever a Noob posted an awesome rant yesterday. So I’m gonna tee off on it a bit.

Oh, and by the way, Cassieann loves the Forever a Noob blog. There are so few Rogue blogs, compared to the Hunter and Druid craziness out there. She loves the in-depth discussions on all the fights from a Rogue point of view, and even better, Dinaer highlighted a bunch of OTHER Rogue blogs too just a few days ago. So thank you for keeping up the awesome, Dinaer. And if you find some other Combat spec focused Rogue blogs, be sure and give them a shout out too.

Okay, okay, back to the topic.

Forever a Noob posted an awesome rant about Dual Spec Craziness.

Read it, please. You won’t be sorry, even if you totally disagree.

Okay, that’s long enough, get your butt back here. You can read his Rogue strategies on Gluth and Heigan later.

Dual Spec. It’s been talked about a LOT.

I’m sure at some point I talked about it here, and I’m feeling too lazy to wade through my archives to figure out what I said. Hopefully, I will totally contradict myself in this post, it’s fun when I go all nuts like that.

But let’s get into Dinaer’s post a bit.

He says he hates it. I don’t hate it. Not at all.

But I still feel I agree with him.

Confused yet? It’s in the implementation.

Lemme ‘splain.

Where we started.

Matticus posted an article a while back where he made some interesting points about how a Raid Leader/Guild Leader really needs to plan ahead for how their guild will handle loot distribution once things change and players start claiming to have two ‘main’ specs. He said that players came with one main spec to raid, and they will continue to have one main spec. But they will also be able to pick an off set that they can roll for.

Thats what we’re talking about here. In the past, it was not only acceptable but NORMAL for someone to choose a particular, favorite spec of their class, and specialize in being the best at it as possible. The Raid Leader knows what your main spec is, and plans a raid accordingly.

We’ve always had some folks that played multiple specs in the game, because the spec they used for raiding was not really suitable for anything BUT raiding. When loot would drop, they would naturally ask if they could roll on something for their off spec.

An example. In Legatum Ignavis we had a Prot Warrior main tank named Joppers, and he would play Prot in all the raids. When it came time to solo or PvP, he respecced on his own to Arms or Fury. So, naturally he would often want to roll on items that were not strictly ‘Prot’ drops in raids, for his off-spec fun. Everyone agreed, because of course that makes sense. There is more to life than raiding, why only get loot you can only ever use in a raid? But for fairness, the people in the raid that could use it for their main raiding spec got first chance to roll. Once nobody else needed it for a main spec, it was all his.

We also always had folks that played a class that could do more than one thing well in a raid, and at any given time we might have too many of a class, or not enough. Druids are a fine example of a class that can either show up to tank well, OR to heal, depending entirely on the spec and gear worn. And tanks are a spec that, once you have enough, you really don’t want another one. Having three tanks traditionally means you have two useful tanks and one melee DPS that is underperforming compared to the rest of the DPS.

I’ve seen many Druid commenters mention how they love having a Druid off tank because even in a tank spec, the Kitty DPS when a tank is not necessary makes them more useful than most other tank specs. Not even with other DPS, but still better than a Prot Warrior DPS.

That has somewhat remained true, although I’ve seen some Death Knight tank/DPS players that could argue very convincingly about who brings the better DPS in a tank spec.

Still, since a Druid tank might not be necessary in a raid, and there is usually a plethora of DPS, many Druids would gather Healer gear together for an offset, so if tanks are covered, they could go respec and still provide another vital service in a raid.

Changes since Dual Spec was announced.

Since Dual Spec was first announced, the number of folks that have taken gear drops for an ‘off set’ have skyrocketed, though.

It’s as though folks think that, if Dual Spec is built into the game, then they MUST use it. Even if they’ve never had any alternative spec before in their lives.

I’m getting the impression that players whose class is all built around DPS, players that have never before played PvP their entire time in game, will now have a ‘PvP spec’, simply because Blizzard added Dual Specs, and that means you are expected to take advantage of it. 

I can almost anticipate folks saying in Trade chat, “What’s your other spec? You don’t have one? If you don’t have a second spec, you’re not taking full advantage of your class and you’re a noob, noob.” 

The future, and the heart of cranky.

Much like Dinaer, I can see the day coming when a raid leader asks not “what spec are you”, but “what are your two specs, and how much DPS/Spellpower do you have in each”.

And if you can bring DPS, and only DPS… or Heals and only Heals… well, depending on the guild and the raid leader, it possibly leaves you SOL.

Let’s break the source of my crankiness down, shall we?

  • Druids can DPS, heal or tank.
  • Paladins can DPS, heal or tank.
  • Shaman can heal or DPS.
  • Warriors can DPS or tank.
  • Death Knights can DPS or tank.
  • Priests can DPS or heal.

Rogues, Mages, Warlocks, Hunters… they cannot heal. They are not main tanks.

Rogues can Evasion tank, of course, and Warlocks and Hunters have been known in some circumstances to have their pets tank stuff very well. I’m talking normal raid environments and class expectations, not awesome and original gameplay by someone taking their class to new heights of awesome, okay?

Rogues, Mages, Warlocks and Hunters provide DPS and other nice benefits to a raid, but they do not have the capability to switch to heals or tank in mid run if that is what is needed at the time.

This is not the problem. I love Hybrids. I really do. This is not a call to nerf Hybrids.

My problem is, Blizzard originally set it so that you were led to believe that you could either choose a class that did many things fairly well, or choose a class that did one thing extremely well.

I know that when I chose my class, the Druid, I knew up front that I could expect to be able to choose to do damage pretty good (ranged or melee), to cast some decent heals, and to take a lot of hits… but I’d never be as good of a tank as a Prot Warrior, never as good of a healer as a Holy Priest, never be as good of a melee DPS as a Rogue, and never as good of a ranged DPS caster as a Mage.

This has changed over time, but when I started, that’s the way it was. Those are the expectations that were set.

I also knew that Hunters and Warlocks were good ranged DPS… but they weren’t expected to be AS good at DPS as Mages and Rogues because they had the added benefit of a pet to help them out. Blizzard listed them as great SOLO classes. Why? They had a buddy to play with built right into the class, of course.

Over time, I believe that the lack of an easy and cheap way to change specs has led to the way Blizzard has worked more on balancing everyone to be more viable or equal in raiding. 

Now, personally, I think Blizzard has worked pretty hard to at least try and have each DPS, healer or tank spec, regardless of class, be fairly even. They certainly haven’t succeeded, but I think they are trying all the time.

Each one brings it’s own flavor, it’s own style, and despite the way the mechanics are starting to get so damn similar, each one has it’s own strengths and weaknesses.

So, sure, Hybrids have been allowed, in each of their specs, to creep up to be equal to those with only one strength, but it took a conscious decision to spend gold, gather gear, redo toolbars, and basically revamp your character every time you respec to fulfill the other roles. You have to take those extra steps of hearthing to a trainer, paying the money, putting your gear on, getting your macros and toolbars straight.

It’s not hard, but it takes a determined effort. You don’t do it on the fly in the middle of a raid without shutting the run down for 10 minutes.

It still felt unfair that you got to have one character at max level that was able to do whatever your heart desired while someone else got a rock, but at least you still had to work for it when you chose to change.

The crankiness?

If my Druid can now, all in one character, walk into a raid or instance and, within seconds, either be a main healer, main tank or equitable melee or ranged DPS, whatever the Raid Leader wants at the time, AND be as good at it as the other classes are in each role, and the Rogue or Mage can only be a DPS, a DPS or a DPS?


Why would a Raid Leader want a Rogue or Mage anymore? The Rogue and Mage bring nothing but DPS. 

Why are we supposed to want to bring the Rogue? Why are we supposed to want to bring the Mage?


But ARE they?

You tell me.

Apples to apples, pre-Naxx gear to Pre-Naxx gear, are Rogues and Mages more powerful DPS and more useful CC than any Hybrid class can be?

Well, from personal experience, I know that when I look at DPS scores, I see Hunters at the top, Retribution Paladins and Death Knights coming REAL close behind, and Rogues and Mages have to work their ass off to squeeze every last drop of utility out of their class to hang tough on their heels.

Excsue me, but thats just bullshit.

If Blizzard really are going to open the gates to Dual Spec without any negative side effects, in a raid, without a cooldown, with the only stipulation being that you not actually be in combat at that particular moment, which is what they are saying right now, then they need to return to the heart of the classes that aren’t Hybrids.

Read the descriptions on Blizzards’ own WoW website!

Let’s break this down;

From Blizzards own description of the classes;

Mages wield the elements of fire, frost, and the arcane to destroy or neutralize their enemies. They are a robed class that excels at dealing massive damage from afar, casting elemental bolts at a single target, or raining destruction down upon their enemies in a wide area of effect. Mages can also augment their allies’ spell-casting powers, summon food or drink to restore their friends, and even travel across the world in an instant by opening arcane portals to distant lands.  

Comments: Excellent primary ranged damage dealers  

Rogues are a lightly armored melee class capable of dealing massive damage to their enemies in a flurry of attacks. They are masters of stealth and assassination, passing by enemies unseen and striking from the shadows, then escaping from combat in the blink of an eye. Rogues can also craft poisons that damage or cripple their enemies, reducing their effectiveness in battle. Groups will find rogues valuable, for not only do they deal massive damage, but they can open locked doors or chests, and disarm hidden traps as well. 
Comments: Favorite among those who like to deal damage 

I know this is long, but by God I think it proves my main point here.

Blizzards’ whole design concept of Mage and Rogue was to say, okay, you have all these other options, these neat classes open to you. And they sound very, very cool. But, even though they can’t heal, or have a pet, or tank… if you want to be the most destructive ranged DPS or the deadliest melee DPS… you should pick a Mage or a Rogue.

That’s what they said!

Thus endeth my rant. So long as you had to pick a spec, and stick with it, having Blizzard claim they were trying to balance each class/spec to be roughly equivalent, and have you bring the player not the class, well it was just fine. It’s been tons of fun.

But, if you’re going to open up Dual Spec to have no cooldown and be usable in a raid instantly, the only stipulation being that you’re not in combat, then I see two choices;

Either let Rogues and Mages have a Tank or Heal spec that is on par with other Hybrid classes… OR freaking make them the absolute best there is at what they do, which is kill shit!

Personally, I don’t care which. Wild wool gathering here, maybe buff up one Rogue spec Talent Tree to really focus on maximizing Evasion tanking. That sounds like a ton of fun to me. Go for it. Maybe give Mages a Talent Tree that takes the rarely used Amplify Magic and Dampen Magic abilities, and transforms them into a style of group healing or mana regen, where so long as your fellow team members have your buff on them, then whatever damage you do to a target, then those team members get a percentage of Health or Mana back, depending on which buff you gave them. Make it a damage/group healing/mana support spec.

I don’t know. I just know that, the way it’s going… as much as I dearly want Dual Specs so my Shaman can be Elemental while I solo, and Restoration when I group, nice and fast and easy.. I think Rogues and Mages, and to some extent Hunters and Warlocks, are all getting hosed.

At least Hunters and Warlocks were told they were getting a pet, and weren’t expected to be DPS gods right up front.

Whew! I’m glad I got that out of my system. I now return you to your regularly scheduled time wasting activities. Have fun!

93 thoughts on “Dual Spec? I agree with the Noob!

  1. Hmm I can relate to what you are saying, BBB. Although it’s not about damage. In our raids, mages and rogues are were they should be – on the top of the DPS-meter. If you made different experience on your server that’s another thing. I don’t know the players you are playing with. I just know that a realy good mage/rogue can still triumph over every hunter. Maybe your hunters are just really, really good? 🙂

    But I know the hybrid-problem from my former days as tree-healer. Should a druid lead the heal-meter? Probably not. But it was reality. Blizzard should really think about what they want pure-classes and hybrid to do.
    .-= mage leveling guide´s last blog ..Frost Mage Leveling Guide – How To Level Fast And Easy =-.


  2. I should also add, I played a Paladin BEFORE they got some really sound buffs, but my Warlock became my love and main char. I am no longer playing WoW for various reasons, I do not like the direction the game is taking, less because of some issues I have with class balance.

    People usually use Health Stones as paperweights and often do not use them, or I have to produce them like a factory… erm well. My debuffs are not special anymore, many classes can provide now the very same buffs/debuffs under different names, to make it easier to create a raid group and so on.

    My friend played a rogue before he switched server and became a shaman… he felt even less useful, he said in instances his stun/CC abilities were no longer needed, and that he cannot AoE as well as a Warlock or Mage. It was not really a solace for me that players of certain classes even felt more useless.

    Mages can live very well with dual speccing due to their amount of unique extra abilities that they bring to the raid, portals and healthstones also have some use… Rogues also have some abilities, but not that much in comparison.

    Still, can this beat switching between roles like TANK/HEAL/DPS easily? I bet many people would not have gone for a very specialized class if they had known that classes that were Jack of All Trades now can switch between different specs for Master of All Trades. This dual spec feature is favoring hybrids to the extreme. I.e., which rogue can spec heal or tank or dps as needed, they are rogues, they have no choice in this matter. They did not know that the future would bring something with such far reaching and game changing consequences like “DUAL SPECCING”.


  3. I wonder what the point of classes that have 3 different specs for one thing only, DPS, is if all others can spec between TANK/DPS/HEAL or at least two of the options easily.

    I know that in former times hybrids were not brought along because they could not compete in the domain of pure classes, but this is no longer true. It probably never was in terms oh HEAL specs, and in DPS specs, a slight lead in DPS … is this really an incentive to NOT prefer a hybrid class that can offer 2-3 much more distinct styles of gameplay?

    I like that summoning the lexicon to switch the class at least requires a group, but I think that Hybrids are favored by this system, and many new players will rather go for the Hybrids if they do not blindly just pick a class before checking if it is doing OK or has issues.


  4. Duel specs opens a big money maker for inscribes or those looking to level inscription. The glyph market is going to be doing well right when they are llaunched, so it may be a good idea to stock up on inks and glyphs to sell during that time.


  5. I have an 80 mage, and I’m quite looking forward to dual-spec myself. I currently run with the 57/3/11 spec, meant to maximize arcane damage in raids. However, its use is limited outside of said raids–say, when I’m doing my dailies and have to worry about Horde a-holes cramping my style. This is really where things like Improved Counterspell, 80 extra spell resist, instant-invisibility, Slow, and increased damage to slowed/snared targets would come in VERY handy. In other words, I need a spec that, while I probably wouldn’t use it exclusively for PvP–being the squishy type that I am, I tend to avoid it–but would get me out of a sticky situation in a pinch if I needed. And I will gladly pay 1000g for that privilege, ’cause gawd knows I’ve spent hundreds enough trying to make a hybrid raid/questing spec that won’t leave me running for my mage trainer every day.


  6. As the Big Bear Butt, Larisa at the Pink Pigtail Inn, Aurik at /hug, and many others have mentioned in recent posts, Blizzard’s tweaking of Hybrid class performance along with dual-spec implementation is making Pure class players wonder what their future holds.

    I believe there are two inherent problems present in this situation that will keep this type of balance issue from ever being completely solved…


  7. I will immediately admit to skipping down the page (I read the first 1/2-2/3 but only have so much time). And as near as I can tell, the problem is not dual specs so much as it is parity in dps. Like most everyone else, I am looking forward to dual specs. I have an 80 druid and a 44 spriest that I really want to be able to heal. I have no use for it with my 80 lock, but there is not a lock shortage (actually… on my server there is, just nobody seems to care). Dual specs may just exacerbate things as they will potentially create more competition for DPS slots in a raid.

    Now here is what annoys me as a dps class (my lock was my first toon); looking at the tank nerfs coming up bears, it is looking very likely that I will go resto. I used to pvp on my lock and when that went to hell I switched to raid dps. Going into a raid with comprably geared ret pallies and dk’s, I would have to fight tooth and nail to top them on the dps charts. I do not feel the need to be at the top of the charts, but as a dps class I would prefer to be. Finally getting to the point, I got tired of dpsing on my lock. I have my druid so I could jump on him to tank (if I could find a willing healer), but what if I did not have a druid? Then I am SOL. Tired of doing “meh” dps using a dps class? Too bad. That is your only option. Contrarily, I do not like what I see coming out with feral tanks. With them, I can change over to dps. Or heals. There are options for what I can do and I love it. And you know what? I do not expect to be the best dps out there. If I had a huge armour advantage over other dps classes (such as leather and bear/moonkin forms or plate armor), could heal better than them, AND could dps as well as them it would be unbalanced. And not just in pvp, but in soloing and raids as well.

    Do you people who think all dps should be on pretty much equal ground honestly find it fair that when leveling toons, a hybrid would the same damage output as well as greater damage mitigation and/or heals? Let me change the to just “and”, because I have yet to do anything with a dps warrior that complains about not having dps as good as mine. Pallies and DK’s (yeah, I am calling out specific classes here) seem to complain the most, but I guess right now they also have the most to lose. Druids seem to roll with the punches and acknowledge that we will never be Blizz’s favs (but would still like new skins, please). Making dps fairly uniform across the board IS unbalancing the game, not balancing. Increased dps makes up for lack of survivability.

    Back to the dual specs widening this gap. Let us assume that all classes have the potential to put out equal dps (I have no idea why this should be expected as nobody expects every class to tank/heal equally well). Now, there are 9 non-dps positions (3 tanks 6 healers), then let us look at the numbers. Tanks only have a 3/25 chance of making the raid, and healers 6/25. On 5-mans they were each 1/5 of the make-up so there will be a slight problem with having enough healers, which seems to be what dual specs is all about, and a slight excess of tanks. That leaves 16/25 to dps. Look at how 5-mans are arranged. All the way up until the endgame, it is designed that 3/5 of players on dps, a difference of 2/25. Compound that with the straight dps now having to compete with the odd healer/tank (more likely tank) that was not needed this particular time. We are already theoretically in excess of dps, but now tanks and healers can jump in and say that they can do that too. Please do not tell me about gear either, the raiding content is such a joke these days that it is not that hard for anyone to have good enough gear for any given spec. My guild has a prot pally with enough healing plate to do 25-mans easily just because plate drops with nobody needing for main spec is a common enough thing.

    My point is that there is already too much dps and this only adds to it. I am not asking for the main dps classes to be monsters with 1k dps higher than hybrids, but is it really too much to ask that they have some slight advantage to make up for the fact that those are the only slots for which they CAN compete? Oh, and that little thing I threw in about solo content as well. Making every class have near-equal dps IS unbalancing the game, Balance will occur when classes that can do nothing else but dps have the leg up in that category.


  8. My main is a paladin, guild’s main tank, and has been prot all the way until recently, when I started using some of my ‘well, if it’s just going to be sharded’ off-sets for some playing around. Long story short, I now carry around *5* gear sets (Tank, PvP ret, PvE ret, PvP holy, PvE holy, plus some extra tanking bits for optimising the role), and tend to respec 2-3 times a week, despite having only one raid role.

    Main problem with this is that the guild has a tank shortage, so if I’m not prot, that’s often a heroic run that can’t happen. Dual specs, to me, mean I can go and heal battlegrounds, but still be available for guild runs. (I like instances, I like tanking. I’ll do something else if they need me to, but they like my tanking…)

    I’ll spend the 50g/100g for a repec if raid progression requires it, but I won’t for an hour of battlegrounds. This isn’t opening up any new options – it’s just making them more convenient, and thus making my life more fun. I can’t complain.

    (Our raid progression *has* in the past required that a couple of our players respec mid-raid, and they’ve done so without complaint, but it does take time and faff. Also, we’re a casual guild of friends, and we used to do a LOT of switching alts in and out as we farmed BC raids, in order to make sure as few drops as possible went to waste, since well over half the guild had at least one raid-capable alt).

    As far as loot policy goes, when I’m doing loot assignment, my policy is ‘pick a main spec for the purposes of loot assignment, and you’ll get priority on that gear. If you’re in another spec for the sake of the raid, I’m not about to penalise you for cooperating in that manner’. Conversely, it’s only one spec they get to prioritise. Can’t see any reason to change that policy, really. I’d run the same for PuGs, but probably use pen and paper to keep track of what people claimed as their main spec – *before* they saw the drops. I tend to avoid any PuG raid that isn’t Vaults.


  9. Let me make some clarifications:

    The Mage brings and Int raid buff and food/water and a portal.
    The Warlock brings health stones and summoning.
    The Hunter brings party buffs no matter what the spec.
    The rogue brings nothing to the raid except dps with the liabilty of being in meleee range in leather.

    Time to put my rogue on the shelf for the 3.3 nerfs/buffs I guess.


  10. I think that a lot of the pure dps classes complaining about this are being rather shortsighted about the possibilities for dps performance. The class I am most familiar with is Warlock. I am specced affliction currently while raiding Naxx. It owns most boss fights, under ideal circumstances I am able to out dps the other warlocks with different specs. But, on trash, I am terrible, and there are a few boss fights where I am completely abysmal as well because they require a type of burst dps output that the affliction spec is bad at. I will love it when I can make a second spec that caters to burst damage versus DoT’s for fights and trash that favor it. It will improve my overall dps immensely and ensure that I can be top dps on nearly all fights. It adds a level of complexity and decision making to my game play.

    I’d assume most other pure classes will have similar options. The problem right now is that the benefits to hybrid classes are obvious, but the pures also need to get out of this mindset of “well, it’s only good for having a PvP spec for us”. Because, I think, when explored deeper, this will provide more utility and damage output capabilities for pures that creatively use it.

    Just my 2 cents… I welcome the change as a pure.


  11. Just as Warriors have been forced to get with the times in the tanking world, so too are DPSers going to have to wake up and realize that the playing field is different. Frankly, it makes no sense that you’re worried about this. If someone can switch from being a healer and then move to a dpser and be a BETTER dpser than you. You deserve for your spot to be taken.

    I’ve been mastering my class as a tank for years. I still learn little things and come Ulduar I know I’ll be learning all kinds of new things about tanking all over again. It’s no different with dpsing. You don’t just fall into a role and suddenly be amazing at it.


  12. I think it relatively balances out as the “Hybrid” can only spec one spec at a time and if he is greatly Worse in that one spec than a Pure class, then why would anyone take Hybrids along?

    He can only perform 1 role at any given time, like a pure class, but the pure class is better.

    The way Hybrids were meant to work originally was to spec somewhere in the middle of atleast 2 of their specs and offer an offtank/offhealer/offdps to raids, but the way Blizzard made raids and slowly changed the class, and the mechanics behind specs they have forced us into speccing 1 role. And in this 1 role we are (meant to be) weaker than pure classes 1 role, making us last choice.

    Dual specs may counter this.

    (My post is refering to the idea that Pure class = Better at Hybrids equivalent role… I totally understand this is often questionable.)


  13. No human is able to tank as well as a dedicated tank, heal as well as a dedicated healer, and DPS as well as a dedicated healers. Its pure hubris to imagine that you can play all three rolls as well as someone that does just one, full time.

    The capacity of the class does not equal the capacity of the player. You’ve probably met a Ret Paladin that can out DPS a rogue. That same Ret Paladin cannot out heal (in his dual spec holy set) the dedicated paladin healer, who in turn, cannot out DPS that same rogue (when dual-spec’ed Ret).

    If your worried about someone else taking your spot – start learning how to play your role better. This goes for everyone – pure class or hybrid. If you can do your job better then anyone else, you are still the one getting brought to a raid. Not the person that pretends to do another job sometimes – they will still get sat out when their main spec isn’t needed, on difficult content, for someone who does the needed job 100% of the time.


  14. I agree with you BBB.

    I Played a mage for 2 and a half years in this game, slowly leveling a paladin alt who hit 70 during the end of TBC, Once i got to 80 and started raiding in Naxx (i’m in a semi-“Hardcore” Guild) Seeing the Ret pallys and Druids beating me on damage while barely trying really discouraged me from being a pure-DPS class, so i switched to my paladin. I truly do have sympathy for the rogues and mages out there who do not have the versatility that Us Hybrids do.


  15. I think this goes back to the “pures vs hybrids” question. Your commenting that mages and rogues should be top dps because they do nothing other than dps. My elemental shaman doesnt do anything other than dps either though, my prot warrior does nothing other than tank, so does that mean just because i can respec resto i should be doing less dps or since i can respec tank i should do less damage?


    I hate dpsing on my warrior and i dont really like healing on my elemental shaman. But just because i can people ask me to respec to resto sometime and I dont want to do it. Honestly i think the dual spec will be nice for my warrior but i dont think im going to get it on my shaman. Why the warrior? because when you have 2 tanks in a 10 man and the boss only needs one, i would rather do 2k dps than 1k that i do as a tank specced warrior. I would honestly rather tank but our prot paladin has no dps gear and is worse off than i am when it comes to dpsing because of mana issues.

    Why should i be penalized just because i chose a shaman and chose to spec him elemental. you’ve never raided as an elemental shaman in BC im guessing, if you did you would have a different prespective of things. Heroics were out of the question because of lack of CC, raids above tier 4 were out of the question because everyone else did way more damage than us etc. It was frustrating to say the least. Now however i can actually do competitive damage. I was top dps the other day in a 10-man naxx. Now before you say “nerf shaman”, note that in the 25-man naxx i did a couple of days before I was 5th on the damage meter. It was because our mage, lock and hunters(rogues really do need a boost, no arguing about that point) kicked my ass in dps.

    So whats my point? skill vs class is the real issue, if im more skillful than a mage, shouldn’t i be doing more damage than him/her? If i geared better, read EJ and learned my class, whereas the mage was basically just winging it and didnt know anything about rotations, specs etc should he/she still beat me? this was the case in BC. Even if i played my heart out i couldn’t get into heroics because of lack of C.C for one thing and also I couldn’t match a geared mages dps no matter what i did.

    So this is another case of bring the player not the class. If a moonkin and a mage are equivalent in gear but the moonkin is more consistent and a better raider, im going to take him instead of the mage. the mage might do more damage but i couldn’t care less. I’m going to take him for his dps not for his non-existent healing ability. My paladin,shaman and druid healers are great at what they do and I’m going to take them because they are great healers, not because ret pallys do more damage than a shadow priest.

    I take the player to my raid, not the class or spec. On a side not my raid group dps is mage/hunter/moonkin/ele shaman/lock. and they all are very competitive when it comes to dps and they are great people to raid with. The lock is the best dps though because he knows exactly what he is doing. Perfect rotations, perfect spec, perfect gearing. Its insane. I have never asked the moonkin or ele shaman to spec anything other than what they enjoy. They are collecting resto sets now because they want to, and if my healers ever want to switch on a night for fun, they are welcome to.


  16. There’s another massive issue here, in that dual-specs are great for say, Naxx, as it wasn’t designed for it. It’s awesome that the off-tank can help out with DPS or healing on a fight where only one tank is needed.
    I always loved running Kara as off-tank as I’d kitty-dps (with dps gear) when only one tank was needed, and strap on healing gear to help HoT the tank for Maiden. But it was fun because it was optional. It gave us a little boost.

    The problem will be if Ulduar onwards are *designed* with the knowledge that players have dual specs. Currently Naxx 10 seems to be built for 2 tanks, 3 healers and 5 dps, then you switch to 2 healers and 6 dps as you gear up to make things quicker. Some fights only need one tank. Others can be done with 2 healers quite easily. But that’s all fine, because the thing is balanced around you having 5 dps players.

    You let people change specs on the fly, and the design has to change, or things become far too easy. You can’t not balance the encounters around people switching specs, because everyone will, making it trivial. But if you do, suddenly everyone needs two full sets of gear to be effective.


  17. But you get comments like Kal’s, the tone he uses, and the arrogance that just seems to drip from the page… and his reaction when I suggest he should be friendly… “Not sure I ever said that my comment was all that friendly.” No, you didn’t, because it wasn’t. And if you know you’re not intending to be friendly here… why ARE you here? No, don’t bother answering, I don’t care.

    I did apologize. It wasn’t my intent to not be friendly, and I didn’t mean any ire.

    I don’t honestly know what I did wrong or where the tone of my post was so horrible. I did think that you were wrong and I did think that it was pretty easily provable, and it does bother me when someone decides that something is one way when it’s very easily shown to not be. That’s a personal failing of mine, and I admit to it. I probably should’ve just taken it to my blog instead of commenting. For that and for rubbing you wrong, I apologize.

    I realize that this seems to be a continual pattern between you and I. I don’t know what I’ve done wrong other than correct you when you got some issues incorrect publicly, and this misunderstanding that I have to get why you’re so easily upset by me is my failing as well. I don’t know how to correct it, so I’ll bow out and cease commenting on your blog. That will likely make us both happier.

    Continue the good work and good luck with your new job, and best wishes to your family.


  18. Malphailuron,”Ah, another point—what’s to become of people below max level? ” yes and no.

    Not sure if you you realize it but you can dual spec from 40. Over the years ST and BRD were where you started to feel the pain healing as shadow or ret or tanking as ret. I have done things like 3 ret pallies and 2 warlocks for zf and tanked & healed RFD as a enhance shaman at the same time in the past and it was fun. Thats the NO part.

    On the other hand instead of taking a shadow priest to heal Sunken temple with a Fury warrior tank- and doing fine, People will soon expect hybrids to have the dual spec they desire. /w level 47 ret pally, Can you come heal Mara, Sorry I am ret, Why dont you have dual spec noob. So YES I can see less acceptance for hybrids below Max level who dont have mains to twink them.


  19. Nefer… as I said earlier in the comments, for me and my guild, and by implication other guilds where the community is small, it’s more about bringing the player you like playing with than a specific class, and Dual Specs are going to be a great addition. We don’t care who has what DPS, or can bring what to a raid. We get together and have fun.

    I still see a few problems other people will have to face, loot drama other players will end up dealing with, other stress players will deal with being expected to learn another spec to perform in top raiding guilds, and more annoyance by people who still have one potential role to play in a raid rather than two or three.

    But yeah, it’s not going to affect me much at all. My Hunter will keep the same single BM spec, my Druid will keep the same tanking spec, I’m not even going to have a kitty one… and my Shaman is likely the only character I ahve that will buy it, because all along I’ve wanted to be healing, but Elelmental is so much fun for questing. So I’ll maximize my Shaman gear for healing, and have a spec that gives me Thunderstorm with gear that ain’t perfect for Elemental for my questing fun.

    Some folks agree with some of my points, most disagree… no worries. I’ve been wrong plenty of times before. I think 74 comments shows this is one of the times most folks feel I’m most wrong.

    The one thing I love more than anything, when I post something like this, is seeing HOW people choose to voice their disagreement… and what tone they choose to use. It shows me who they are, and what they really think.

    I love a post like /Hug, because he completely wins me over… and has me cheering while he does it. 🙂 I don’t totally agree with what he says my points were in some cases… but that’s because my post was a total mess. Really, my post was just terribly written. As clear as molasses on a winter’s day. Poorly thought out, too, I’m sure.

    But you get comments like Kal’s, the tone he uses, and the arrogance that just seems to drip from the page… and his reaction when I suggest he should be friendly… “Not sure I ever said that my comment was all that friendly.” No, you didn’t, because it wasn’t. And if you know you’re not intending to be friendly here… why ARE you here? No, don’t bother answering, I don’t care.


  20. Sharvhan, I love the idea of using your dual specs to have a trash spec and a boss spec. (Or AoE and single target).

    I know that Cassie prefers Eviscerate against trash with a short life expectancy, and Rupture agasint longer boss fights where the target has ebnough health to squeeze the most out of the dot.

    With Dual Specs, she could focus one spec on boosting Eviscerate, and the other spec for boss fights, and feel very solid about it, if she wanted. A great point, thank you!


  21. Someone probably already pointed this out but if i wanted to go to a raid as a hybrid in any spec, I should be able to perform just as well as any other class in the type of spec I am playing.
    Otherwise there is no reason for the raid leader to ever bring any hybrid class at all to a raid because that hybrid couldn’t tank/heal/dps as well as a not hybrid class.

    As for the increase of loot rolling for nonspec/other/off spec, raiding spec should always get priority and if in doubt, check before raiding.

    With the duelspecs coming, I am looking forward to being able to level some of my alts without the need to level prot or holy to be able to group for dungeons.

    *omg, I have only ever had one good pug group, most of them disolve after the first death or two just inside of the instance


  22. Ah, another point—what’s to become of people below max level? As things stand, you have one spec at max level, and switching is expensive and difficult. If you want to fill another role, traditionally you’ve had to roll an alt. And while the grind back up to max level was exhausting and sometimes boring, at least it didn’t leave newcomers to the game stranded and unable to find four other people to accompany them into Deadmines or group up to kill Hogger.

    Now much of the community has two, three, even four characters at or near max level, AND the ability to switch specs. Plus the DK, who starts at 55. Isn’t this change really cutting off newbies?


  23. My guild leader brought up an interesting point. While his main is a feral druid, he also plays a mage with some regularity. His point was that in addition to pure DPS classes dual speccing for PvP and PvE, they could also choose to spec for trash and bosses, boosting their AE and haste rating for trash, then switch to a “boss” spec focusing on single-target damage and hit rating. This could possibly ensure pure DPS classes are ahead of hybrids at least in PvE. They may not bring the utility that a hybrid who could respec to tank/heals, but they could at least provide optimal DPS in any situation.

    Myself, I’m iffy on dual specs. My main is a DK tank, and I utterly loathe DPSing as a DK. My main alt is a BM hunter and I have no intention of switching to any other spec – therefore the only use I myself have for dual speccing is possibly switching from PvE to arena specs. Is it worth shelling out 1K gold? Possibly, if I intend to regularly do arena and BGs, but I doubt I’d utilize it much myself. What I see happening is more forcing people into playing specs they didn’t originally set out to play – say I played an enhancement shaman and was continuously forced to dual spec into resto for lack of heals. Yes, I could have resto as my secondary spec, but does that mean I want to raid as resto? If I chose not to switch spec for that raid, would I get my spot replaced by someone who was willing to switch?

    We’ll see what happens when dual spec comes out, but I’m very much on the line about it.


  24. Lot of stir in the community over this. People way smarter than I have commented on the potential fallout for raids or pvp or gear controversies, and that’s all good food for thought. While I’m not happy about dual specs turning out the way they are (why not a two-hour cooldown? That would solve plenty of issues), I’m more concerned about what might happen to the five-man PUGs …

    Think back to when DK’s were first loosed upon us, and think of how many thought that simply because they were wearing plate and had a taunt they could tank. Think about how AWFUL they were … remember that? I see that happening with every hybrid class. Now every boomkin will think he can tank, every paladin will think he can heal …

    I wonder how I shall save enough gold for dual specs when I’ve got so many high repair bills to look forward to. The concerns of regular raiders and all are valid (although I think the way gear distribution works will still keep most people in one role), but I’m finding just as much to hate in the world of PUGs.


  25. I have to respectfully disagree with you BBB, both on dual specs and on hybrid DPS.

    My guild is a “casual” raiding guild. “Casual” in that we raid two days a week, for 6-8 hours of raiding total. Because we only raid a little, we take our raid time seriously. People have to be fully repaired and in raiding spec/gear. We don’t min/max for raiding, beyond having 4 tanks, 7 heals, and 14 DPS. Some nights, when we have 5 tanks sign up, one of the druids gets to be kitty all night long. Some nights, we’re taking 11 melee DPS to fight KT.

    Right now, due to RL, we’re in a healer crunch. Two feral druids, two pallies, and a spriest have all volunteered to switch to heals on the nights it’s needed. Dual speccing will not ultimately change how my guild raids; it will simply change how we raid in extenuating circumstances. Loot will will still go to main spec first (and everyone has one main spec). We’re not going to be switching specs between boss fights for max DPS — we don’t do that now and have fully cleared 25Naxx. I’m looking forward to being able to take whatever raid comp we get and being able to down KT, even if we have 11 “melee”….who are able to switch for that fight alone.

    As for hybrid DPS and how it should be less than pure DPS, that’s a dangerous road to head back down. In vanilla WoW, this was the case. How many raiding boomkins or kitties or enhance shammies or ret pallies were there? Very, very little. If you could heal as a hybrid, that’s all you could do to raid. Simply because a class has an option to tank or heal doesn’t mean that’s the only option that should be raid viable. It also may not be what the player wants to play. I’m feral — I love to OT and only heal if the guild absolutely needs it. We have a tree who doesn’t even roll on feral gear because he will never go feral. We also have a boomkin who only wants to play a boomkin and only heals under duress. As long as you’re above the tanks and healers for DPS, my guild could care less about DPS numbers. Stuff dies and people survive. That’s all the matters. Where you are on the meter only serves one purpose: self-satisfaction. For me, taking down dragons and monsters with people I call friends is enough.


  26. I really feel mixed about dual specs. On the one hand I cannot wait to be able to heal when not need as a doomkin (4 horsemen as an example). However, I knew this nightmare of a loot situation was coming. It have almost come to hate raiding because people are rolling on gear that was never really meant for them because they “need it for an offset.” My wife and a rogue friend were screwed more than once in Naxx thanks to the future implementation of dual specs.

    Our rogue friend is so irritated he types in, “Oh I need that spell druid gear for my healing offset O.o” as a little stab at the greedy people. When asked what the hell does he mean, he replies that he’s speccing healing rogue and running around bandaging people during fights lol

    As a person who never raided before WoTLKr, I think I know see what all the hardcore raiders are complaining about now. Everyone and their half-witted friend can raid now for the most part. I can’t tell you how hard I worked to gear for Naxx only to see people in greens and blue get pugged into our group at the last minuted to fill a dps slot. Even more irritating is that the pugger will invariably win a roll on a purple drop that is my only possible upgrade in the game! All of that effort and grinding to be geared and that idiot gets a huge upgrade for being carried through Naxx by the rest of the DPS? It’s sickening really.

    This dual spec thing is probably only going to make things even worse for raiders, raid leaders, and guild leaders. I honestly think Blizzard is killing the game I love in order to make it “more accessible” to casual gamers. I’m really not liking where this is heading. Has anyone tried Warhammer Online?


  27. It’s probably pointless to comment further on this, as people just skip them all and post their own comment. But, I have one thing to add to this; what is all this “Raid Leader FORCES me to go resto…” stuff? Nobody can force you to do anything in this game. Period. Don’t like being a resto druid? Then don’t spec into it. Feel like your guild is not letting you run because you refuse to change specs? There are 100s of guilds on your server, go find one. Or make your own. Nobody on your server when you play? Transfer servers to one set to a different time zone.

    I personally will go dual spec tank/resto. I’m already geared and experienced at both. And I hate, hate, hate DPS.


  28. Grats, you and noob inspired me to rant as well.

    I wanted to clear something up too… Warlock pets DO NOT = Hunter pets in terms of DPS. We’re more mage-like now than we’ve ever been… it just takes us longer to kill stuff through dots…

    Even a full demo specced lock is not going to kick out the pet damage of a basic huntard. Our pets are sort of a joke right now. Some decent buffs, nice to have around for a chat, but not all that and a bag of mana biscuits in a fight. We had some wicked scaling issues at the level cap before gearing up too. Horrible DPS numbers. This whole change is a big slap in my face. FTL.


  29. Mages and Rogues got the shaft due to PVP. Dual-spec has little to do with it. Thy both have high DPS and several CC/defense/escape mechanisms. That’s what they do. I agree with buffing them in raids, but asking hybrids to take a penalty is foolish. Why bring a hybrid then, ESPECIALLY with the advent of dual-spec, because the hybrid will possibly have the “need” (please notice the air quotes) for 3 gear sets (or more for us druids).

    Dual spec is an issue for raid leaders/guild leaders to deal with. Period. It’s great for the game, becuase a casual player like myself can play PVP again without being required to do “chores” (daily quests) just to afford it (and I have RL chores to do, I want my playtime to be just that — PLAY). It great for the game because your 3rd tank in a 25-man will never be asked to sit in a corner for Najentus (one notable instance) because his DPS is so low that he’s not worth the healing required on any melee unfriendly fight. It’s great for small time 10-man folks who are stuck on a few fights due to low DPS, who don’t have reams of player at their disposal, or have the time to re-roll. Large guilds will be uneffected, other than having a potentially even easier time blowing through content and having more loot issues. A simple “spec decalaration” or “tiered DKP” or “Eff it all just roll in the window and let the dice decide” system is all that is needed. Loot wh0res are now easier to spot. Good. Black list the folks that can’t decide on a main spec and move on. Gold star the folks that are willing to spec swap to fill a role as needed by the group.

    I really can’t understand what all the fuss is about. Other than 1000 gold price tag. That sucks. But hell, at least that’s a target I can grind toward in whatever manner I want.


  30. Here a more absurd way to show why penalizing hybrids for being hybrids is bad. There are 4 tanking classes. Druids can be tank/healer/melee DPS/caster DPS. Paladins are tank/healer/melee DPS. Warriors and Death Knights are tank/melee DPS. Its not fair that druids and paladins have such hybrid flexibility. There for tanking:

    Warriors and Death Knights are benched at 100% effectiveness for tanking. Paladins are 75% of that tanking benchmark. Druids are 50% of benchmark. This is the penalty for having extra flexability as a hybrid. ie the hybrid tax. If this came to pass (which tankfully we know won’t), there wouldnt be any more druid or paladin tanks. All tanks would be death knights and warriors.

    Likewise for DPS, if pure classes were benchmarked at 100% for DPS, then
    Warriors/DK/Priest would be 75% (2 viable specs)
    Paladins/Shamans would be at 50% (3 viable specs with shamans having 2 dps specs)
    Druids woud be at 40% (only class with 4 specs)

    hybrid DPS would cease to function as pure classes would be the only ones chosen for the DPS role.

    If we penalized druids the same way for healing, then druids would be a useless and redundant class as well as paladins and shamans. Therefore a hybrid must be competitive for the role the hybrid specializes in to be able to participate in the end game. They cannot suffer a performance penalty. And its not fair to pick and choose which specialty is viable – all should be if that hybrid has access to it.


  31. If you boil down the argument, it really is, “Should hybrid DPS have a role in the end game of Raids and PVP?” People who say hybrid DPS should do substantially less DPS than pure DPS classes are basically saying hybrid DPS should not be viable in the end game of raids and PVP. This was born out in Classic WoW where the only tanking class was warrior and the hybrids (paladin, priest, druid, shaman) were effectively pure healing classes. So in the end game, hybrids weren’t hybrids, but basically pure classes synced to their strongest spec which was healing.

    In TBC you saw more tanks become viable (druids and paladins) but hybrid DPS still was not up to par. As such, a complicated and powerful buff system was introduced where hopefully the buffs a hybrid brought would justify a raid spot. The problem was that the healing spec could still bring the same buffs. Certain classes were discriminated against in favor of raid buffs (ie stacking shamans for bloodlust/heroism). Hybrids were still left out in the cold and were effectively pure healing classes except for Paladins and Druids which found niche tanking roles.

    Now we are in WotLK where hybrids have truly become hybrids where they can fulfill the role they want to specialize in. So to answer my own question. I believe hybrid DPS should have a role in the end game and as such, do comparable dps to that of pure DPS classes. Otherwise, hybrid DPS will be locked out just like in classic WoW.


  32. My two cents. They already said Ulduar is gonna be much tougher then naxx or all the raid content out right now. And that CC is gonna be needed again (at least i think i read it somewhere). More utility for rogues and mages right there, CC. I think the “AOE the fuck out of everything, the tank should hold aggro even if i nuke in the first second of the fight” thats going on right now is gonna be dead on the next xpac. AND maybe some strategy will be back in the game.


  33. Since hearing about being able to change specs wherever you are I’ve had a bad feeling about this.

    We’ve all been requesting an easier way to change specs for years, but seems Blizzard have tried to one-up themselves, without thinking through the full connotations.

    If it was limited to cities only (maybe the lexicon of power) I’d be 101% behind this.


  34. well I’m a hunter, have been for over 2 years. I spec and gear to put out the highest dps I can. I have almost all best-in-slot gear and I have my rotations nailed down with lots of theorycrafting and practice….

    I’m never top in raids (unless PUGs). I work my arse off but still get beat by mages, fury warriors, feral / balance druids, shadow priests, dks and ret pallies. sometimes I come in the top 5. Mostly I fall in between 5-10 position on the damage meters.

    I dps, It’s all I do. If I wasnt topping the damage meters due to skill, then fair enough. But thats not the case. If in a raid group with equally skilled and geared classes hunters cant top the recount. We normally take 5+ mages to raids as they are the best dps class hands down. All i ask is blizz fix it so that I have a chance to compete, especially with hybrids.


  35. /signed

    Not being pissy about it, but this could very well spell the end of WoW for me. Why should I have taken the time to learn my class, tanking and tanking as my class to have some other joker just flip a switch and claim they are a tank? What was the point in me learning the craft of tanking, or healers doing the same? Dedicated DPSers tend to extort amazing amounts out of their class by virtue of having spent the time to learn it.

    And what about gear? “I’m rolling need on this for my dual spec.” Like we don’t have enough loot problems already.


  36. I was looking forward to Dual specs, I’m a MT in my guild, but we’ve recently started running 25 man content with another guild. These runs I’ve been relegated to kitty DPS. Now I’ve been keeping my kitty gear, my secondary set, pretty up to date as much of it is mixed and matched situationally with my “tank” gear. With my potential secondary spec I intended to set up a real kitty DPS spec, drop a few of the more DPS oriented talents from my tanking spec to shore it up a bit more. Or… During a lot of runs I’ve also picked up a pile of caster gear. Heroic stuff just going to shard? Mind if I take that for off spec? It’s better than whats in my bank. Cool. Not even sure if the set of gear is viable for boomkin, I upgrade it piece by piece without a real view of how the set of gear is working.

    The one thing that recently bugged me about it was the sudden 1K cost. I got over that fairly quickly, fine it’s going to save on respec costs in the long run, but then it occured that I haven’t been respeccing so it’s a flat out big cost. Honestly, when the 3.1 talents hit I was planning to respec to grab the bleed crit talent (whatever it’s called), I think this respec will cost me 5G. On my Shaman, which was my main in BC, I respec’d quite often between elemental and resto. Resto was horrible for questing, but we needed the heals in raids. So the idea of dual spec was appealing for that too.

    Then they removed the reagent cost, no more bouncing to a city or needing the not-yet-implemented portable Lexicon. No cooldowns. Now you can respec anytime, anywhere. WTF? It really takes the accountability out of choosing your spec.

    One other note, I know people think that the hybrids like Druids, Shaman and Pallies are getting the biggest value out of this but I’m not so sure. I think it’s the opposite, we’re getting an extra ton of junk dumped on us. Elemental and Resto shaman have much in common, but I can tell you that you will find yourself very dead very fast with a resto sham in elemental gear. Likewise Trees in Owl gear. There is overlap, but not as much as people think. Tree/Owl is miles from Bear/Cat. Ele/Resto is miles different from Enhance. Last I heard from my Pally friends there is almost no overlap between Ret, Prot and Holy. I’m going to /palmface the first time some raid leader says to me “What do you mean you don’t have a tree offpec and gear?”
    Druids do it like animals! Rawr!


  37. I would disagree slightly… I believe Blizzard’s aim is to make it so the raid leader doesn’t have to care what classes are brought to a raid… that seemed to be the point of 3.0 talent builds and so forth… and the raid design for WotLK… so long as you have the basics covered, you could bring anyone… and each class brought something unique to the party to make it different and worthwhile to be any class.

    This seems to be a step in that same direction, espcally for smaller guilds who can field 10-12 people for raiding… such as my guild. In Naxx I would be switching between bear, Kitty (thank God for kitty swipe!), and a respec to healing to cover extend the mana of our two healers for patchwork… Needless to say, my respec bill is quite high, even with donations from other raid members (since I was making it possible to progress) I look forward to this change big time, and look at it as giving us a little wiggle room for small guilds in raiding.

    I would also argue that the pure DPS specs would possibly benifet from this… Survival hunters with their mana regeneration talents… or potential Marking buffs for marksmanship (dodges BRK). Frost crowd control on mobs is a potent strength on some bosses with tons of adds, while no add bosses would be a fire paradise…

    Although I would tottally agree to let warriors have a medic tree (combine fury and arms as a damage tree), that way Gnomes could have a healing class that involve bandages, potions, and the latest tech… then they can stop whining.


  38. As a resto druid, I most likely won’t be bringing anything extra to a raid.
    Yes, I am a hybrid. However, I plan for my offspec to be a feral build that can allow me to solo old BC content, as well as being able to kill regular 80 mobs (without taking hours as resto).

    My primary gear set will be resto. My off-set will be a feral set. However, I find it unlikely that my offset (which will be rolled on after people’s main sets – just as it is now) will ever be good enough to even tank in raids. As it is now, I can barely tank heroics… <_<

    I think, that with the way rolling is used (although DKP can alter this a bit), main/offsets will still be used much similarly to the way they are now, just without the hassle of having to actually having to go and respec (choose your talents/reconfigure action bars/replace glyphs) each time.


  39. i have to agree with kal.

    i have been playing a mage and a druid, have been with both to kara, gruul and the eye. did pve and pvp. i stopped amost a year ago and just came back.

    what i always thought was bad about blizz implementation of raids was, that it was more important what class you chose at the beginning (chose my mage nearly 4 years ago- nobody knew anything about raiding back then) than who your friends were. dualspects reduce this problem a bit and i think it is a step in the right direction.

    even as a mage i would have profited a lot by dualspecs. for raid i would have been able to go fire for max dps and for pvp frost.

    as i detest healing i would not have switched builds on my druid but well…


  40. “Until I hear one Mage or Rogue honestly tell me that he has no problem, in equivalent gear progression, to matching DPS with Hunters and Death Knights, then I call BS. “

    I’m a Mage with no problems matching DPS with other DPS. In fact, our Mages normally take the top 3 spots in all WotLK raid content encounters. With the new Dual Spec feature, I don’t feel like our roles in raids will be lessened because we don’t do anything else but DPS. The new feature will just make it more convenient for players who normally respec alot.

    As for why you would bring a Mage over a Hybrid?

    Polymorph, Counterspell, Decurse, AoE, Arcane Intellect, Food/Water, Portals.

    All in one class, with one spec. To get all that from other classes, you would need a Druid for Curses, Shaman for Interrupts, Warlock’s Fel Hound for Intellect, and Hunter for CC (not spammable though). Warlocks, Boomkins, and S.Priests can cover the AoE. That doesn’t even cover the Food/Water or Portals.


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