Neither fish nor flesh nor good red herring

Carrying on our wonderful conversation from yesterday! With the great insights so many of you shared, how could we not?

I’ll let you decide why I named the post the way I did

Some of the things that struck me in your comments, were how grateful many folks were to be able to take a break from raiding due to real life concerns, or play a character at a different pace than others, and feel that when they came back they could come reasonably close to catching up to their friends without causing their guilds to stop on a dime and go back to re-run 25 person content just to catch them up.

Of course, the flip side to that was how sad many folks were that the current system encourages skipped content to remain skipped forever if you missed it at first release, because the raiding guild you’ve caught up to has little incentive to really run Naxx or Ulduar once there aren’t any desirable shinies from it. As one person put it (paraphrased) it’s sad that a gorgeous, spectacularly designed raid like Ulduar was passed over as obsolete so quickly after release, in favor of arena battles in ToC.

There also were a lot of comments from folks that felt that the Emblem system had, perhaps, gone just a little too far in allowing people to bypass recent content entirely, and that the Badge system in Burning Crusade had hit just the right balance.

Lots of great points in your comments, loved reading them all. Well, almost all. There’s always one that has to interject some pissyness. You know, what we in the Marines called the 10% rule. I’ve mentioned it before on the blog years ago, no matter how kick ass the group of people you gather together, there’s always that 10% that, umm… mess it up for the others.

Let’s move past the “love it or hate it” aspect, though, and move on to motivation. Current motivation to run content.

We’re in the middle of a lot of things right now. We’re not at the leading edge of newly released content, ToC 10s and 25s has been out for a while now. Emblems of Conquest have been out long enough that if you really wanted to, at least one character can easily be fully decked out now. I know I don’t play all that much, I’ve got three specs I gear up at 80, and I’ve still got a solid mix of Conquest gear, heroic ToC stuff, and a couple Triumph pieces on all three. I could be even stronger, I spent a lot of my Druid’s Conquest downranking to get Heirloom chestpieces and daggers and stuff.

Folks doing ToC 10s and 25s are liable to already have things pure Triumph can get them. Or are at least getting close to it.

So we’re at the tail end of one content cycle… but we’re not yet at the next one, and it’s hard to tell just when it will come. We know Triumph Emblems will fall like gentle rain in Patch 3.3, and right now it’s a clawing struggle to get them from Heroic Daily quests if that’s the level of content you’re doing.

According to WoW.com/WoW Insider, it could be the end of December before we see Patch 3.3, based on their analysis of Icecrown Citadel boss testing schedules on the PTR.

Two more months of playing where we are just now… or maybe the Patch will come next week! (Okay, not really, but seriously… who knows?)

So how do you feel when in between these stages? Are you motivated to run things, and if so, what is driving you on?

Are you driven to run ToC or other raids as much as you can, in a desire to see the content, ahem, “As it was intended”? I saw a few comments suggesting that quite a few of you feel that having ever higher gear levels for existing content cheapens the experience.

I’m torn, myself. I really feel the in-betweens right now.

Intellectually, I know that very soon things will change, there will be neat new 5 person instances in Icecrown to have fun with, there will be new loot dropping, and there will be Triumph Emblems dropping in large amounts from normal heroics.

But still… I find myself trying to do the daily heroic on my Hunter as much as possible, clawing my way towards getting 30 Emblems of Triumph so I can get the Tier 9 shoulders. I still have reputation blue shoulders on my Hunter, squatting there like a turd amidst my other pretty shiny gear… and it torques me right the hell off. I don’t even play my Hunter for anything other than fun, and it still irritates me.

For a while, I dreamed of seeing the Hunter shoulders in heroic ToC drop… HAH! I used up my loot luck for the next year getting a turtle mount.

Now I’m at 26 Emblems of Triumph on a character that I really feel bad trying to get guild runs with when it’s the daily, because my Druid is simply more helpful to getting groups going for everyone. We’ve got a lot of tanks, but we’re still a little short on healers from day to day.

I still feel motivated to run the heroic daily on my Hunter, trying to get those silly Emblems of Triumph, for no other reason than because I am annoyed at blue shoulders on my Hunter, and apparently I’m too stupid to just wait a few weeks when I could run a single heroic Nexus in a pug and be done.

I even know what’s going to happen. I’m going to finally get those Tier shoulders on my Hunter, gem and enchant them… and the character will go back to sitting on the shelf. It’s like I’ve got this itch right between my shoulderblades, and once it’s scratched I’ll be able to relax.

How are you handling this period? What is motivating your decisions as to what you play once you log in? I’ll put aside the big one of having fun with friends, I think that’s the big reason we login in the first place. 

From reading some of the comments from previous periods right before big content patches, I see that this is when a lot of folks say they’re bored with WoW or are burnt out or are tired of achieving big things only to have the bar raised yet again, and are intending to stop playing.

Is that where you’re at? If so, are you coming back?

Or are you having fun the same as always, because something that has nothing to do with patch content motivates your fun?

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30 thoughts on “Neither fish nor flesh nor good red herring

  1. I’m not as adverse to replacing gear as a lot of people I know. I’m also not as die-hard to gear up as other folk.

    For my bear, I mostly just hope to replace a bit of my gear out now so whenever our guild steps into Ulduar, I’ll have the gear to make it a bit easier. And then when we do ToC-10, I’ll have the gear for that. I’m slowly getting my way up to get enough EoC’s to get the T8 head piece and to get 25 EoT’s to get the tanking idol. There’s a few drops from HToC I still want as a means to gear up. And the WG pantaloons.

    And when 3.3 comes out, I’ll try to replace what I can again in hopes of making life a bit easier as our guild for things thereafter.

    My mage, as he’s able to pug raids a bit easier (easier to carry dps than a tank), he has gotten some fancy drops from VoA and such. More go-with-the flow as he’s not used to raid with our guild all that much.

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  2. I’m not even close to being caught up on gear. I’ve still got plenty to do on the one level 80 I play. There are good gear upgrades I can buy using both relevant emblems. There’s even gear I want to spend Wintergrasp marks on. I’ve got plenty to do on my level 80 feral druid.

    On top of that I have four alts between level 20-something and 70-something that I play somewhat regularly with friends & family. And another few alts that I’d like to develop, but don’t get around to.

    What motivates me to keep playing is that this is an awesome game. Visually beautiful, intriguing stories, satisfying quest lines and PvP activities. Level 1-80, there is a lot of fun to have in this game. And I have great friends with whom to enjoy it. So we play it.

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  3. I actually like this time the best, in that seems to me like the last few miles of a marathon. The realistic goals that I set for my characters are in sight, since at this point I only need one or two pieces per character, instead of “I need tons and tons and tons of badgers!.” Getting those goals goes more smoothly since I am generally happy with my characters performance due to the previously completed gear upgrades. Plus, there is always the “I can REALLY get better if I just get this one… more… Triumph… piece.

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  4. My goal is to have every class at levelcap in reasonable gear (4/10 done). Because of this I like the gear-resets. But I also like to see every content (including hardmodes) and Blizzards takes this away (whats the point to do ulduar-hardmodes unless for the achievements). I can’t believe that only a few people still visit Ulduar these days (I will never get the tanking-trinket from Ignis I guess).
    With the changes to emblems Blizzard established a grindfest and people will burn out even faster (Ank’ahet was my most-feared-dungeon and now we kill him reliably under 2min, people bypass as many bosses as possible because its boring).
    Blizzards goes to fast for my taste.

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  5. this is the slow before the coming storm.

    I bet a lot of people who quit after Wrath was released and got “bored” of Naxx will come back just before Cataclysm and want/expect to run everything once in a farm raid type setting then go on to the new “stuff”.

    The only thing they did wrong was leave no incentive to run Ulduar for those who play it for the gearz. I like going into Ulduar for the challenge, but people don’t even want to attempt normal mode Yogg because like sprinks said the reward/challenge ratio is just so bad compared to regular ToC. But since even the emblems are useless for current content (unlike Kara was in the Sunwell era people still ran it for those 22 badges they could use on T6 equivalent gear) people have dumped it like a red headed child. People deride Ulduar as too easy while it’s quite obvious it’s too hard for casual players who don’t really want to be challenged. If Ulduar 10 hard modes and Ulduar 25 had Emblems of Triumph right now there would still be people lining up to go in there for a romp. But that was for last post…

    Right now I’m trying to get a stupid ass squashling for my DK, it’s the last achievement I need for the holiday meta and it’s so RNG dependent that it drives me crazy. Considering it’s “festival” primetime now with Beerfest gone and Hallow’s End almost done only to roll into Thanksgiving in a few weeks and Christmas/New years stuff™ to do. I don’t even really need to look for extra things to do.

    I kind of like this time in the cycle. It’s relaxing and you’re not all panicky to get stuff done. Raiding 4 nights a week gets tiring. I might even start playing alts that have sat neglected for months or work on silly grinds I haven’t spent the time to do.

    After all My Shaman and DK will want 2 full sets of T9 going into IC and that’ll be the crazy time.

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  6. I like this point in the expansion. My druid is still my main, and I still run the guild raids and see/do everything first and appropriately geared with him, but this gives me the opportunity to change my “main alt”. I don’t like my hunter much, so this announcement gives me that motivation to level the mage I’ve had sitting around, knowing that I will be able to catch up.

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  7. The way I’ve handled this period right before the next patch is to work on alts. My main bear/laser chicken is ToC10 ready and my bear spec is probably solid enough for ToC25. Nevertheless I got bored. So I’ve leveled my hunter up about 25 levels and my dk should ding 78 this evening. I also just recruited a friend and created a shammy to level with him.

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  8. I continue to raid on my Paladin. The guild is starting to work on ToC hardmodes, and now that I’m geared enough to tank raids, I’m running some PUGs myself.

    At the same time, like you I’ve started to feel the urge to play another character. My vanilla character was a Warlock, and he has been steadily falling behind. Even my Druid has done more WotLK content that my Warlock. So I’ve been trying to get into PUGs. And last night I was painfully reminded why my hybrid characters have done more content. Instead of building a group around myself as the tank (or healer), I’m just one of a dozen DPS players trying to get a spot.

    Hopefully the new LFG tool will help with this – but I doubt it. Adding a larger pool of players isn’t going to help when the larger pool is still mostly DPS.

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  9. My main, a protection warrior, has not run any heroic dungeon in over six weeks. I am not alone; I believe only three of the thirteen regulars of my 10-man unaffiliated raid are running heroics these days. Sure, we could use some of the emblem gear as upgrades but what is the point? We enjoy the challenge of hard modes and we believe we are geared sufficiently to conquer them. We choose, and it is a conscious choice, to beat these encounters using better startegy and better execution of said strategies. We don’t believe this choice is intrisically better than the alternatives; we are simply doing what we enjoy.

    My main alt, a well-geared holy priest, will heal a heroic from time to time, but only if members are willing to run it with 3 or 4 players only. You would be surprised how many players refuse to run heroics with 4 players only.

    My 3 other 80s will never the inside of a raid and are geared right for heroics (maybe one green and an epic or two, the remainder are rare items). I often volunteer them for heroics if the guild needs a fifth and I am just questing on a lower level character at the moment. Some members are happy to invite them, others prefer to invite a well-geared friend or PuG for an easy walk in the park. I am fine with either choice.

    Several guild members are upset I no longer tank heroics or heal full groups, enpugh for the GM to have a requested a meeting with me. I find it rather ironic members a casual non-raiding guild want to force one of its members into content he has no interest but we shall see what the GM has to say.

    The gear reset is not something I care about either way. I was lucky enough to find a dozen friends who shared the same vision. We are happy raiding at our own pace and the fact many players who have yet to defeat any of the hard modes we have completed are better geared than us is not relevant. We are raiding the content we want to beat.

    I am not sure whether this is relevant but everyone in my group is a parent or grandparent. My yongest raider is 28 year old and the 3 oldest are somewhere north of 65. All are good players but I doubt anyone of us would amaze you with our skills. Good but unexceptional skill, combined with patience and a willingness to adopt new startegies, appears to be good enough to defeat hard modes.

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  10. I can’t remember the last time I even did a heroic or raid. Over a month ago, probably. My guild has been slowly falling apart lately, so most of my time has been either offline not wanting to deal with it or trying to figure out ways to fix the mess with my fellow officers.

    Before that, though, we were going strong in all the 10-mans, clearing ToC every week and getting up to Yogg in Ulduar. 25-mans have always been our bane, so we’ll always have something to improve upon. Be it hard modes, 25-mans or getting the hang of Yogg.
    .-= Vaadren´s last blog ..The nail in the coffin =-.

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  11. i want to play a druid like nobody’s business. i’ve got every other class above 60, 4 at 80 and a 79, and my druid is like 35. however, i really really want a troll druid. basically, i hear what you’re saying about your hunter, and feel it that much worse since i know i have to wait nigh on a year to play him.

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  12. I like the way the game has changed, since i moved a few months back im stuck on dialup leveling alts, so far on dialup i have leveled my shaman from 24-80 and now im working on my priest, just got 60 and flying will speed northrend up, but i am glad that once i get a job, and get this dialup upgraded to cable, i will be able to jump into raiding again fairly easily on any toon i have leveled.

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  13. I’m still pushing for higher gear, but that’s because I have limited playtime and I’m working on multiple gear sets, so I’m slow about getting gear. I know it’ll be worthless (or at least worth less) in a bit, but until then it continues to be a goal of mine.

    If I ever did get to a point where I was completely “done” gear-wise… I have a bunch of alts I would like to get to max level…

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  14. I prefer to experience every instance I can along the way, however impossible a hope that is. I may not run unnecessary instances time and time again like was required of them in their glory days, but I still would like to go there while I’m roughly the right strength to get a challenge out of it, and not after-the-fact when it’s just an achievement gathering stomp session.

    I’m really looking forward to the PUGing system that’s apparently being kicked around out there. Where as I may not find a full group to do the glazed over dungeons on my server alone, it should be doable out of the 18 servers in my battlegroup. I can’t be that alone in wanting to experience as much as possible in the game I’m paying for every month.
    .-= Skip Cocoa´s last blog ..PTR PUG System Gushing =-.

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  15. Really I just like playing. I never have much time between work/school/kids. I am very slow with progression. I want to see everything just because it is there. I don’t mind if it is three content patch later or not. Right now I am happy becuase most everyone is geared now and are just working on fine toning there play style before Icecrown. It will not take much effert for me to play catch up with the others.

    I am really excited about the up coming changes I really hope they make it easier for us busy people to play. I just hope it doesn’t cheapen the play for those “hardcore” players.

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  16. On a side note is there a way to change the little picture next to my name? Or is the picture just randomly assigned?

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  17. @ Redaurora, I’m pretty sure it’s random. My avatar seems to change from time to time. I guess BBB can’t get enough of the RNG. lol

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  18. Your little avatar will at least stay the same =)

    While I’m really happy with my guild we can only rarely get together to do things. So I raid with other folks, get upgrades, save up badgers, and work on my skills. When we do get together, I’m glad that I can help make the run smoother.

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  19. @Redaurora

    The default is random, though having an account lets you set it. On this blog, I think having a comluv.com account tied to the email address you enter lets you configure it there. I just set mine up, so if I have a custom image (The Honorable Skip Cocoa giving the thumbs up!) on this post, then it worked and I’m right. If I have the same randomly generated sentient geometry, then I failed.
    .-= Skip Cocoa´s last blog ..PTR PUG System Gushing =-.

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  20. At this point in the game, I’m doing the same thing I’m always doing, really. Obsessing over alts, making more of them, leveling them as far as I can. My situation never really changes to be honest. And Bear, as long as you want to do the heroic daily on your hunter, you’ve got a healer do help you out with that as long as I’m on, which if nothing else is later in the day.

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  21. I run the dailies faithfully on my main, and then I take a break and go do something mindless. I have a couple of Triumph pieces I really want, but at the same time I’m enjoying a break form really focusing on Heroics.

    Been going back and picking up the Classic instance content that I missed or skipped on my 80s and helping out a couple of guildies by bringing them along. It’s fun and relaxing just cruising along and chatting as boss drop after boss drop gets sharded ’cause everyone is in BoA stuff.

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  22. Thanks to still needing to train a number of guildies, I am spending a lot of time in Ulduar as those of them without the time or the understanding of which Conquest pieces are best for them, Ulduar is a nice point to train in. Many of the fights require a high element of teamwork and if too many people are dying on Beasts, Faction Champs or even Twin Val’kyr, they may need to go back to Ulduar and learn to not die due to avoidable raid damage.

    A few weeks in Ulduar has got a few people the couple of items they really needed, since as a 10 man only guild, we miss out on a number of important gear slots getting useful upgrades and taught people the value of pushing through and learning boss fights where there’s a lot going on, like Hodir or Mimiron. This tends to make them better players and more valuable members of other content and has helped people go from causing Whelp wipes on Ony to oneshotting her every week. Not that Ony is hard, but getting players to be more situationally aware is of great assistance to a raid.

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  23. i believe that on the aspects of getting all this amazing loot from heroics and it destroying the seance of achievement from boss fights on my druid the guild i was in grinded naxx 10 for a while then in our naxx 10 gear we started doing ulduar 10 and getting better every time because the loot, then when we finaly did do yoggsaron most of us were still in naxx mixed with ulduar 10 gear and that felt like an achievement to me because tbh i was still wearing some hateful gear,but now on my druid still i have just tanked Ony 25 with no problems but at the start of this week i wasn’t even geared for naxx 25 but because of the badge system ive just been able to skip over the most of the content tbh i just believe it has gone slightly too far and i believe that in tbc they had it just right =]

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  24. I still run the dailies I’ve got 30 EoT for my Feral druid but just when I wanted to go and buy the tier shoulders I realised 15 more and I can get the Emblem shoulders which everyone seems to rate higher. So I’m still grinding 🙂

    Since I’m casual player and RL keeps me quite busy (2 kids 2yrs & 4 mnths ol respectively) I’m not nearly bored 🙂
    I’m sorry that I cant really make time for raids, so I love the new system coz It means I will continue to have items to work for and improvements made available without needing to find 3-4hrs for a raid.

    Without this system I would hit a gear “glass ceiling”, run out of upgrades and probably stop playing eventually.
    So yes skipping raids is an unfortunate side effect, but since I’m not seeing them in any case because of playing time, giving me new shinies in Heroics and new Heroics keeps me going 🙂

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  25. I’m in a guild that tends to be in the server top 10 or even top 5 when new content is released. When TotC came out, we were downing the bosses the day they were released. However, as the weeks go by, we settle quite inevitably around 12th to 15th. We’re a Finnish only guild and don’t have as large a base of players as other guilds have to recruit from. As a result we have a guild where we have both rather hardcore and very casual players. All of us are good at what we do, but our goals are different. It doesn’t matter as much when we are first clearing the content but you start to see during these slower periods.

    The more hardcore players would like to finally down those Northrend Beasts in 25man hard mode, but the more casuals would like to take a break or continue raiding Ulduar. At the moment our “compromise” is to run hard modes in 10man and to have one good day of 25mans (TotC, Ony, VoA) and 2 more days when we may raid Ulduar or not depending on whether we get 20 or 25 names in the calendar.

    I would like to see these periods as an opportunity to experiment between progress periods. Either to see how far we Can reach in terms of hard modes, even in older instances where the only real gain are the achievements, real and virtual, or to provide an opportunity to temporarily raid on an alt or off spec. There isn’t as much pressure to get the guild geared up in the latest content as that’s kinda happening on its own now.

    I’m one of the guild’s two main tanks on my druid but at the moment I’m on a break from tanking and raiding as a moonkin instead. I’m not quite providing as much dps as our top dps, but I manage, and I’m pretty sure I’ll be better at it in the end of my break. (And I have the badge system to thank for being able to gather a pretty decent balance gear in two or three weeks from scratch) At the same time one of our social members gets a chance to try his hand at main tanking and, if the other officers allow it, one of our balance druids might get to run on his resto shaman. I’m still available if I’m needed for hard modes as opposed to having completely burned out and taken a real break. A win-win situation from my point of view and somewhat undoable in a situation when we’re clearing new content.

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  26. Ah Bear

    I have similar problems. What to do next? I have 2 tanks (paladin, DK), 4 healers (paladin, priest, druid, shammie), 4 DPS (Rogue, Shammie, Druid, Priest). With 3.3 incoming, I am scaling back my “gear upgrade” plans, and focusing on leveling up my remaining alts. I expect with 3.3 and the new LFG and LFR enhancements to the game, to be able to gear up a new 80 in 2-3 weeks to be raid-ready (not Icecrown, but Naxx, Ulduar, etc). Also to get all of them gear-wise ready for assaulting the next 5 levels in Cataclysm.

    However… your fishing story is making we think about my only fisherman abandoned at skill of 117. I might need to go grab a pole, some bait and see if I can teach my 5year old a new game!
    .-= Dracomage´s last blog ..Well that was great! =-.

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  27. Lets assume that a group goes to Ulduar and spends 2 hrs getting 2 or 3 bosses down. So that earns them about 4-6 conquest badges?

    Alternatively a group of 5 spends those 2 hrs and knocks out 4 heroics and gets 15-19 conquest badges plus the 2 triumph from the daily.

    Hmm, less repair bill, more badges, easier runs. I think the vast majority of the people will go the easier route because you get more for less effort. Its for this reason that it makes me sad because I’ll never be able to experience this content.

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  28. I am at the point where blizz has made me feel like if I dont play my first 80 then i wont be raiding. so many ppl are getting geared from emblems that they dont need to do ulduar or naxx. I have a few 80s now who have never seen ulduar cuzz of the lack of ppl doing it and that irratates me…

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  29. I’m at an interesting point I think. I have a bunch of 80s, 3 in a horde guild which I co-lead, a tank, healer, and dps. I have a healer in another guild on another server, that I am finally starting to do raids on (took a really long time to find a good guild for my alliance toons). The horde guild is very social and really cares about things like parties and 5 mans. They dont really care about progression raiding. Its a very different midset from the raider guild which is build on progression. And I find it so eternally frustrating that I just can’t get the horde guild to run stuff like onyxia, or TOC or something. No they want to do the first 5 bosses in ulduar and naxx. Or HTOC. Give me a break.

    So anyway for me personally I’ve gotten all the upgrades I can’ reasonabley get on my toons. There are a few things I could get but at this point I dont have any major upgrades. So i am not doing heroics and am waiting until the patch where I plan to run a zillion heroics and get the tier 9 stuff very quickly. I’m also leveling an alt just for kicks (a paly – i swear everyone has a DK, druid or paly these days or all 3).

    But yeah t this point in the expansion I’m extremely frustrated with my social guild who could do so much more if they put their minds to it. ;(

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  30. It’s interesting to see what this point in the game means to different people. I’m in a guild that is semi-casual but does progression raiding by partnering with a sister guild. We have raids going most nights of the week, but TotC threw a wrench in our raiding when it first arrived. Our 10-man raids were downing Yogg and working on some hard mode fights, but our 25-man was banging their heads against Yogg’s big ugly inner sanctum. As a guild that’s been around since Vanilla, we had several traditionalists who wanted to finish what we started before moving on, while many other members wanted to leave Yogg behind and move on to TotC. In the end we run several 10 mans, including an alt/funrun Uld 10, Uld10 Hardmode and Algalon attempts, several TotC10s, and a TotC10 heroic. Week before last, we decided to go back in after Yogg (and realized we’d lost the lockout >.<), but this past week we went in and killed him, which has prompted much discussion on our guild forums about what to do next.
    My guilds have decided to continue with the several raids we're doing each night, doing two nights of 25 man, one regular TotC and Uld, and one heroic TotC and continuing reg Uld or attempting hard modes in uld as we go. We decided when Ulduar hit which healer was recieving Val'anyr, and the guilds have united to farm Ulduar at the very least until he gets his last 11 shards.
    Unfortunately, the gear reset causes issues here, because you have people who see easier opportunities to get better gear, and don't want to return to Olduar since they can get shinier purples in less traumatizing places, and then you have others who have used the reset to gear alts, and want to bring characters they rarely play in leu of the mains that would make it a quick easy farm, so you get several people who start looking at instances more as gear checks than mechanics and believe they can do anything because they have a higher item level. This isn't just alts, these are new players as well, people who may not understand their class role or basic fight mechanics who expect something like Ulduar to be cake because it's already been replaced by newer content.
    I can't make many of my guild raid times, but I dread pugging the new raids, though I've witnessed them being pugged often, for this very reason. I spent long enough learning how not to stand in fire or run through clouds that my patience for someone making entry level mistakes in what should be a progression level raid for most is virtually non-existant.
    I have no issue with new players or alts in raids, but they need to progress in the same way we did. No the gear isn't as good as the gear you get from badges, and you don't earn badges quite as quickly as you would running 5 mans, but running in a raid teaches you things heroics can't help you with. Healers learn how to trust other healers and how to work together and communicate so that heals and mana don't get wasted. Tanks learn how to work together to taunt from each other or position mobs and bosses. DPS learn when to be moving, when to be close, when to spread out, how to maintain range and not be in the fire or too close to other dps or too far from the healer.
    It saddens me to go in to TotC 10 and watch my fellow melee dps fumble with the concept of forming a triangle around a boss. Let's go back and kill Kel'Thuzad. You can wear your shiny purples and do your big numbers, just pay a bit of attention too. :
    I hold myself to the same standard. My playtime at the moment is spent almost entirely leveling alts. My druid main is the only one I sign up on, though I have a pally tank I've done occasional raids on since my druid is currently cat/boom. However the pally started in Naxx and continued doing pieces of Ulduar and then TotC 10. I don't bring her to 25s. I have two healers, a shaman and priest in Naxx25+ and though I'd be willing to bring them if absolutely needed, I feel I'd rather get them through Uld before daring to step foot in TotC. I enjoy that my alts all have the gear to passable in higher level raids, but at the same time there's a learning experience involved in doing various raids, and even though I could probably play any of the toons effectively enough based on gear level and the learning curve (or lack thereof) on reg TotC10, I feel like reacting to and learning the mechanics of Ulduar and Naxx will serve me better in the long run.
    (And while I'm not raiding I've started a caster druid, so I can bring my main back to offspec tank and play all four pve specs across the two toons. It Is a good time for alts :P)

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