To post or not to post

It’s been a funny weekend, all things considered. A weekend worth a rambling, stupid, tired Bearwall.

It started out with a rather unexpected bonus, and then kinda drifted from there.

I’ve been playing on lower level characters for weeks now, having fun on the Warrior here, the Paladin there, just messing about. It’s been fun.

Along the way, the Rogue that I was leveling hit 80, and the “hey, I’m 80, I should get gear” impulse kicked in, starting a frenzy of Heroics.

That started a cascade effect.

Running on the Rogue just reminded me of the good times on my Hunter, who had never quite finished getting geared from Heroics.

Running Heroics on my Hunter just reminded me of the good times on my Paladin, who REALLY had crap gear on his Ret spec. Most of his early emblems went to tanky stuff. Blech.

Once on my Paladin, I was reminded that, hey, I like my Druid too.

That began a weekend long process of flipping back and forth between the two in Heroics.

That brings us to this last Friday.

I hopped on my Druid to tank a quick one, and what should I get but Heroic Pit of Saron, immediately followed by the Battered Hilt dropping, and my winning the roll.

Hurm, as Rorshach might monotone.

What to do, what to do.

The Battered Hilt sells for around 7500g on my server at the moment, so it’s 7500g sitting there… but, I don’t care about gold. If I need it, I sell some of the tons of mats my various crafters collect. Never really had a problem with gold yet. Sure, I can’t just buy a Tundra Mammoth out of pocket, and I don’t have a motorcycle, but that’s okay. If I really wanted either THAT bad, I’d have gotten it already.

I was going to get a motorcycle for my Engineering Hunter, but she won the roll on a VOA Mammoth a long, long time ago, a nice three seater model, and after that, it kinda seemed like a moot point.

Back to the Battered Hilt… if I use it, who to use it on? And what spec?

This was an actual crunch time for me, because it caused me to really think about what I enjoy doing in the game, how I felt about playing the game, and who I wanted to invest in with a big ticket item for the long term.

I thought of my Druid first, of course, but I have the Orca Hunter’s Harpoon on him, and I really like the way it looks. From a pure graphics standpoint, it’s the awesmome. I don’t like what the weapons Feral Druids get from the Battered Hilt look like, despite how awesome all that Expertise is.

But, but… the weapon would have been better! Yeah, but this was the first realisation to come out of my thinking… I really, no I mean really, don’t care about stats beyond Heroics at this point. Faced with the guaranteed big time tasty weapon for someone, I decided against stats…

And went with looks.

My Ret Paladin has the big honking axe from Heroic Pit of Saron. It’s a good axe. Thing is… I don’t like the looks of the axe.

The Tyrannical Beheader is one bitchin’ looking weapon… but meh. My Paladin is SO over axes this season.

But do I really like my Paladin enough to replace a perfectly good, powerful two handed glowey axe with a two handed sword valued at 7500 gold, no matter how smokin’ hawt?

I thought about it a long time, and realized… yes, I guess I do. It’s only money, and screw stats.

Plus, hey, I’ve heard thats a real fun quest chain. That’s a bigger draw than whatever weapon I eventually get.

The second thing I internalized is, I like my Druid for Tanking and Healing. I like my Hunter for ranged DPS. And I like my Paladin for in-your-face melee DPS.

Any other character I play is, inevitably, going to end up being a good time leveling, before being dumped on the trash heap of MMO history.

Oh yeah, and being a Profession bot.

I did the entire Battered Hilt quest chain, and when I finished I had a massive two-handed Quel’Delar with Berserking enchanted on it courtesy of a rather melancholy player. 🙂

I was, initially, quite pleased.

I was so pleased, so heady with that ‘new gear’ smell, that I dropped the 8 Primordial Saronite I’d been stockpiling to someday craft my Druid a pair of pants to cover my big bear butt, and instead had a pair of stainless steel britches forged instead.

They chafe in places that I shall not mention.

It was quite nice to sit and enjoy the feeling of having significant gear upgrades on a character I used to like to play.

Alas, like any other toy, there’s only so much fun to be had looking at it sitting on the shelf.

I decided to take that new gear out on the road for a spin, see what it could do. Open it up, feel the wind through my fur… um, hair, and glory in ridiculously oversized male compensation, er, I mean brandish my big honking sword, a mighty weapon that requires two hands to lift, no, no, that’s not much better, perhaps I shall leave that line of descriptive narrative, hmmm?

It was at that moment in time when the weekend kinda went downhill. At least it started on a high note.

Now, I’m not going to let this just degenerate into pissing and moaning.

I did some runs using LFD, queuing mostly as melee DPS, and gee whiz, it took a while to get groups.

I’m sure you never expected that.

When I did get groups, there was a pretty even mix of groups that failed due to people way undergeared and not playing well, or people way overgeared and not playing well, and the asshattishness such things see as a result.

When there were no problems, when the runs would go smoothly, which I’d say realistically were about 40% of the time, the accompanying silence and curtness would remind me of playing Unreal Tournament Onslaught in bot mode. Fun group play, but you feel like you’re the only actual person in a field of automatons.

There were about a solid 10% of runs that had friendly people, people who met adversity in some way, rose above it, and became groups that were fun to be a part of, if for no other reason than it was nice to know that for once I was playing with people that seemed friendly and mature.

But the worst of the runs… they do stand out, don’t they? They stand out for what they tell us about ourselves, and what we choose to do.

I’ll grab one example out of the grab bag, because as a proponent of Feral Druid Tanks, this guy just pissed me off.

I happened to pop on my Druid to heal one, since I’ve mostly forgotten what healing is like.

I got a random Heroic Gundrak with a Feral Druid tank. The Feral Druid had over 6k GS, and by the time we were done with the snake boss and hitting the Elemental Boss trash, I had begun to realize that this tank, by my standards, just sucked. Bad.

Why? Because either from lack of skill or lack of give a shit, he wasn’t bothering to actually play as a tank.

First example? I spent most of the first boss with 4+ snakes on me because he went after the boss rather than clear the trash first.

Apparently, holding aggro is for lesser geared tanks that actually give a shit. I spent the entire short time healing myself and everyone else while the other DPS shot things off of me, bless them. The tank, of course, was busy being a 6k GS rockstar out front.

All the snake adds that came in after the boss aggroed? On me as well. 

Really? Just, really?

So yeah, I’m thinking to myself, self, what are the chances that this guy just happened to get so many prime pieces of feral tanking loot in high end raids that he’s an (actually 6.1k GS) rockstar, but he doesn’t know how to tank his raid groups? What are the odds he’s really normally kitty DPS and just stupid at tanking?

Maybe 50/50, I guess.

Either way, he sucks, and it’s irritating.

But here is realization #3; the runs I have with people possessing a gearscore of over 4800 are far worse than those with people in 4000 to 4400. They are more painful, there are more deaths, there is a lot more bitchiness and general pissyness, and people display a complete and utter lack of skill at the most amazing times.

Cassie, having long ago decided the same thing, tells me that I need to start queueing with my weapons and shoulders unequipped, cutting down on my apparent gearscore, so I’ll have a better chance at running with lower ranked players.

Why is that? Because she thinks, and I’m starting to agree, that one of the biggest irritants we see is that people with high raiding gearscores are arrogant, think they are ‘the shit’, feel like they are too good for Heroics with ‘the scum’, and yet do it to get their two Frost emblems each day anyway.

So, they’re slumming, resentful of it, and phone it in, playing with their heads up their ass, and frankly sucking at it. Gear does not equal skill, and I have seen countless 4400 GS tanks do a mind-blowingly superior job tanking compared to the 5.5k GS idiots I see more often.

I agree with her… I’d rather play with people that are still cautious and trying to play with skill because they think their gear sucks and are trying their best so as to, ugh, not offend the high gearscores that are deigning to carry them.

You think I’m kidding?

Let me finish talking about that one Gundrak example.

We are just hitting the trash in the room outside boss numero two, the purple goo elemental that inhabits the stone statue, when our masterful Feral Druid tank decides, after a run of dead silence, that he has wisdom he’d like to share with the class.

Specifically, he starts talking shit about the Warlock in the group. Just, out of nowhere.

First, he announces, “Mr Warlock. Stop using Rain of Fire. It sucks. Only Seed of Corruption.”

Now, before anyone has a chance to respond to these words of Heroic Gundrak wisdom, while still sucking as a tank and I’m healing everyone frantically while the Death Knight is pulling one of the mobs the tank ignored off of me, he continues, with the flat announcement “crap DPS pisses me off.”

What, crap DPS pisses him off? Well, eating mobs in my branches pisses me off, bad tanking pisses me off, bad FERAL DRUID tanking freaking enrages me, and I’m not pissing and moaning about it in group, now am I?

And then, right on the heels of that stunning bit of personal sharing, he announces that “I’m sick of playing with crap DPS.”

Now, I’m pretty confused. I hadn’t noticed anything wrong with  the run so far except really crappy tanking, to be honest. Stuff is dying mighty fast, ain’t that what DPS is supposed to do? They’re even grabbing the mobs off me that the tank is ignoring, I’d rate them as a bunch of fine chaps, they’re all right in my book.

I glance at the DPS Meter, maybe there is someone that ain’t pulling their weight.

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one, since I had JUST been in a Heroic Halls of Reflection where a Warrior gleefully announced he was still leveling his weapon skill… he was at 320 at the time. During most of that HHoR run, the warrior averaged 352 DPS, so yeah… I could understand a little aggravation if we had another one of those types of situations.

Oh, that HHoR run? Nervous Tank with 4400 GS, Healer with about the same, my Paladin, a Mage and the aforementioned Warrior… it was one of the smoothest HHoR runs I’ve ever been on, thank you very much. Not a single 5k+ GS to be seen (except me), and yet us poor little peons managed to do JUST fine… unlike the runs in HHoR I had later in the weekend with the 5500 GS tank and healer combo that couldn’t make it past the first boss.

That’s not evidence of anything, by the way, unless you want to think of it as my experiences in reinforcing why I increasingly don’t want to play with strangers in Heroics with really high gear.

now, after that build up, where do you think that Warlock came out on the DPS meters?

He was indeed at the bottom, with a measly 3000 DPS.

You know and I know that 3000 DPS isn’t exactly rocking the ICC hard mode charts, right?

But this isn’t ICC. This is Heroic Gundrak. Heroic GUNDRAK.

It’s not even ToC, FoS, PoS or HoR. The four instances where gear over iLevel 200 drop.

It’s Heroic Gundrak.

I don’t care how you measure it, 3k DPS as the lowest on the chart doesn’t suck.

A couple of the other players, not even the Warlock, talk for the first time in the run, one saying that he wouldn’t exactly call 3000 DPS “crap”, and the other saying “asking a Warlock not to use Rain of Fire is like asking a Hunter not to use Volley, lol” which I thought was pretty damn funny. 

I was initially busy, because you know… getting eaten and having to heal frantically and all.

But I find the manual dexterity to chime in with, “The only problem I’ve seen so far is you aren’t bothering to tank, unless I’m supposed to be tanking all these mobs as part of your master plan.”

The tank, without a further word, runs forward, pulls the boss, hits it once and drops group.

Well, that’s show us, won’t it! That certainly put us in our place.

Without a break in stride, the Death Knight went all out while the Warlock sicced his pet on the boss, we easily killed the thing, and there were no deaths, thank you very much.

Then we requeue for a tank, and laugh at his idiot fail butt. He couldn’t even handle a proper seeing to!

We wait for about 30 seconds before I say “I can switch to my tank spec”, at the same time as the Death Knight says HE can switch to tank… and we get a new tank anyway.

30 whole seconds.

We get a measly 5500 GS tank, who lols at us for wiping, and when we explain the tank abandoned us in mid pull, he kinda metaphorically shrugged his shoulders, hitched his suspenders and away we went.

The rest of the run went smooth as silk, and hey, nobody said anything the rest of the run. We even ran the extra boss, which is nearly unheard of.

That’s just one example of the kind of thing that’s been eating away at the back of my brain, making me nibble around the edges of realization #4.

It’s not yet a full blown realization, it’s still a burning question. 


No, really, why do I continue to play this game?

I don’t like other people’s snotty little kids. I just don’t.

I don’t put up with that kind of bullshit in person, so why should I put up with it on the internet? Serious business? Oh, please. Cry more? Yeah, keep talking that brave internet talk.

I keep telling myself that the number of really nice, mature people that play the game are the silent majority, and the asshats just seem more prevalent because they make SURE they make their presence felt.

It’s always a comforting thought to hold dear. Sure, this guy may be an assclown, but most folks in the game are nice, pleasant, mature folks it’d be a pleasure to quaff Guinness with.

But, is that true?

Are most people in the game nice? Or pleasant? Or mature?

Over the weekend, I ran into two players in a run, both from a guild called something similar to “Sofa king reh todd edd”. That one stands out in my mind as almost demanding a bitchslap, but it’s certainly not an isolated incident.

Others I know told me of similar naming delights they experienced in their pugs, but fortunately my memory has blocked it out.

There is something I’ve long held to be true, and I’m starting to wonder how it applies in an MMO.

“You can’t depend on anyone else to make you happy. In a relationship, in life, in a game, whatever, only you can make you happy. Other people can try and bring you up or down, but whether or not you’re happy all comes down to you.”

I get cranky at times, and take a shot at an asshat or two, or wonder at the idiocy I see around me, but when it comes to having fun in the game, I’ve never had a problem finding the fun. If I’m not having fun at the moment… I move my butt until I’m back in the fun. I don’t expect the game to do it for me, to present me with a covered platter, under which there shall be found ‘teh fun’. Nope, if I ain’t having fun, I go looking for it.

I don’t expect other people in the game to make me happy, or be my good time. I expect to have to seek out things that I find fun, and my good mood has to come from my own point of view.

Realization #4 is that I really have to re-examine what I want out of the game, and how I spend my time… because more and more, max level activities with strangers, any strangers, are just NOT it. 

And from that realization comes some corollaries.

For example, if I ain’t gonna play at max level anymore, why bother getting upgrades for level 80 play in the first place?

I have been riding that edge already, spending every Emblem on my toons to get Heirloom gear to make leveling new alts a smooth experience.

But aside from a kick ass weapon… do I really need Heirlooms? What’s the rush to get to 80? All I’ll be doing is putting another character on the shelf and starting another one.

I still really enjoy leveling new character classes, building new adventures around a new persona. That’s still a lot of fun, and nobody talks about how they raped someone else in PvP when you’re soloing in Barrens with all the chat channels turned off.

What I’m thinking, is maybe I should restart on another server entirely, much like Elystia did.

Just pull up stakes, start somewhere new, and if I want to help a poor low level alt out, I can make a Death Knight to go do some quests in Outlands, pull in a few gold.

Make a new character, go out without Heirlooms, and see the World of a different server.

And before I take that first step… shut off every global chat channel in the game. Make it the equivalent of the biggest single player game filled with random bots ever seen.

I’m getting burnt out. Burnt out on playing a game where the misfits are starting to outnumber the people I’d like to hoist a few with.

It’s too bad that Quel’Delar can’t be Bind on Account, and scale in power like an Heirloom.

In fact, it’s too bad all the Legendaries don’t do that. That would make them oh so glorious to have, a true joy to play with rqather than an epeen bragging right on your trophy room wall? If your Legendary scaled and was Bind on Account? That would be just too cool to see on a level 1 in the Exodar.


55 thoughts on “To post or not to post

  1. I’ve been asking myself a similar question, gearing up my 80 shaman alt with Triumph gear for no great reason. But I am still having fun with him, and he’s spending more time these days working on his Netherwing rep with my wife than running randoms.

    But I can offer up one reason I love Heirlooms. See, my Shaman is the only toon that ever wore Heirlooms from level 1 to 80 (Gotta love that one oversized Herod’s Shoulder and for 80 levels, his core appearance never changed. Red chest, one shoulder, and 2 great big hammers. That simple look made him more “real” in my head, which made leveling him more fun.

    It may sound silly, but I grew accustomed to that look while leveling him, and I miss it now that he’s in his T9 (even though Thrall’s Battlegear does look pretty awesome.)

    If I ever get a figureprint made, it’s going to be with his dependable Heirloom gear.


  2. Now is as good a time as any to treat WoW as a single player game. People are bored with the content and it seems for some people it’s a small step from boredom to griefing. Perhaps if you avoid the folks that’s driving you up the wall now you’d have more patience come Cata. (Not saying that you have to stick with WoW at all if it’s not fun anymore though).

    However: There are still a lot of nice folks out there. My baby warrior tank have reached 80 and are allmost done with the “Looking for multitudes” achievent. I’ve grouped with about 85 random strangers in heroics and of those I have only had to ignore 2. I haven’t initiated a single kick (although my first FoS Heroic group kindly kicked a hunter that was being an asshat before I could decide if I wanted to kick him myself).

    Yesterday I was playing on my level 71 hunter & got grouped with a 6K GS bear druid for Nexus. He proceeded to happily run me and the other 2 lucky dps through Several random dungeons. (I still have no idea what he was doing there, as none of the other in our group were even from the same server as him). Perhaps in his case being bored translated into doing something nice for someone.

    I also got H PoS a couple of days ago for only the second time. My measly 4K GS was the highest in the group apart from the Healer’s. We had a couple of clumsy pulls that resulted in adds. The healer kept us up like a master & his only comment was somethinig like: “Boy you like to give me a challenge, don’t you”. For the rest of the run me and one of the dps kept joking with him about earning his keep and it must have been one of my most fun runs yet. Even though tanking H PoS scares the crap out of me.

    I’ve changed servers a couple of times, once for the exact same reason: I was tired of people being asshats and wanted to play “solo” and once just to do Pocketkitz’s Gnome Challenge, so I decided to roll on Argent Dawn US & check out the SAN clan. Both times levelling on my own left me with a rejuvenated interested in my other level 80’s


  3. Okay, I totally agree with you, Kobay. My Shaman’s Enhance set STILL has those two maces, even at 80 with all good healing gear, and I love ’em for the same reason. They look cool, and I had ’em for a long time.


  4. I really feel for you BBB. I’ve been burnt out myself for so long it took a break for me to realise that that I needed to change my perceptions about what I wanted to do, was capable doing, and actually enjoyed doing (inside WoW). Once I did that, and made the call to never raid and not play during the week, I’ve been much happier. Toddling along, working on alts, seeing new quests and new classes is the fun for me.

    One of my mates has even stopped running random dungeons because of all the asshattery that goes on.

    Come to Aman’Thul and have a brew in Dalaran!


  5. I stopped running the randoms several weeks ago for most of the same reasons. Got tired of the jerkbutts, their comments and eliteist attitudes. I’ve just been kind of waiting for the crowd to change over, (lower level players moving up), and went about doing some old rep grinds and achievements. Even managed to upgrade some gear in the process. I also rolled two new toons on another server, just for backup and a place to get away from it all. 🙂 It does ease the mind and further the general gaming enjoyment.


  6. I got nuthin’ to say, except I love leveling alts too. Try leveling one of each class, and don’t repeat race/gender. In fact this is the best time to be doing old world content, since when Cataclysm hits most of it is changing.

    I’ve got a bunch of alts sitting at level 58, just on the cusp of going to Outland, and they each have their own set of unique Heirlooms. In fact one of the reasons I hope they increase the number of allowed characters on one server is so I have an excuse to buy another set of Heirlooms. 🙂


  7. Your observation on the very best play coming from the 4k bracket is absolutely correct. The players are aware (if not downright apologetic) of their low dps and if someone is so new that they don’t even know the instance, you can bet there will be some actual conversation.

    I blood tank ICC, so I don’t have bad runs. Anyone can be dragged kicking and screaming through heroics by an overgeared tank, sometimes even without a healer. In the evening, when I played, I’d usually do a couple runs with healer guildies or relatives, and the healer usually stands around dpsing and spot-healing dpsers. So what I really look for in DPS pugs is some friendly personality or silent competence. The 5-6k divas seem to find that difficult.

    …with that in mind, thank you very much for the idea of setting a ‘queue gear’ item set to artificially reduce gs!


  8. I concur…

    I’ve been playing a Feral/resto drood (75), a PvP rogue (34), a Disc/Shadow priest (42), an Ele shaman (40) and a Ret Paladin tank (52) and none of my 80’s

    On all of them, I’m either PvP’ing or tanking a silent run because I don’t want to play with the other people in this game. I dont’ want to play with the dicks, the tards and the moron’s.

    None of them are in guilds. None of them are aiming for ‘endgame’ beyond X6-X9 BG’s (where I ignore everyone else).

    Should I keep playing?… who knows….


  9. I still tank a random every now and then on my ICC10 geared DK, Several weeks ago, I got a full group of fresh 80’s where the best dps was 1500. H HoL took a full 45 min and I enjoyed the hell out of it. The best thing about them is that they knew what they didnt know. They were willing to listen and it was fantastic.

    Other times I’ll get a full ICC geared group and the hunters pull for me and i get a lot of gogogo. That I dont care for. I can do a speed run but its not my preferred run.

    Anyway I started a Horde rogue to run bg’s with and it is the most fun I’ve had in the game in a long long time. She is getting up into the high 40’s and i am almost sorry to see her leveling to almost outlands.


  10. I ran into one of those “pull mobs, drop group” tanks the other day. I healed the DPS hard while we waited, popped a new tank, he picked the boss up seamlessly, and we didn’t lose anyone. So stick that up your jumper, Mr Spiteful Tank.

    I also had one instance where we went through three tanks, and a bunch of instances where the tank joins and then instantly drops – either, I assume, because it was an instance that he didn’t want, or because he looked at my (newbie druid) gear and decided it was a bad idea (I haven’t had any problems yet, though). And of course the ones who drop group after Boss X or Boss Y, presumably because their coveted item didn’t drop.

    So selfish.

    The absolute BEST one, though, was the one I blogged about ages ago – where I queued up in my 40s, got ZF, the tank announced “get back, or you’ll die”, I asked why, he said “I need to get to the GY” then ran forward and killed himself, released, and dropped group. TLDR: He wanted a free port to Tanaris and used the LFD (and its instant queues for tanks) to get it. Wowwwwwwwwwww.

    I certainly have nothing against tanks in general (I don’t want to generalise) but I’ve seen some real asshat ones lately. Those insta-queues seem to be the green light for a lot of people to act like jerks and not worry about the repurcussions. There should be harsher penalties for dropping group instantly, or immediately following a boss, but especially for dropping group mid-pull to spite the group.


  11. I usually end up tanking if I want to grind out some emblems… when anyone starts to gripe about anyone else, I simply state that as long as we’re not wiping, I don’t bloody well care how bad someone’s DPS is.

    Too many people have forgotten the days in which we were just discovering the heroics and finding them a challenge, forgotten how it feels to hit 80 and have a bunch of new skills to learn how to use.


  12. Also, to Feature: It is definitely a possibility, re: friendly bored ICC tanks re-queuing with cross-server pugs whilst bored. If you’re with a fun group who are actually going to get a =benefit= from more runs, I’d rather farm heroics for cash and enjoy the company whilst helping someone than farming herbs and dailies alone. Feels better, more warm-fuzzy. 🙂


  13. It checks gear in your bags, Besides it really does make much difference. I leveled a new disc priest a few weeks ago, The very first heroic I got? H Hol with a 25k hp pally tank. He took it carefully , no real issues. this week? The disc priest is +1200 on gs or so but still only 4k. I get a 47k hp tank, he says good luck and drops, Replaced with a 50k tank, so we get the first 3 bosses down and we to the packs that throw poison spears and have mobs that ww. Tank decides its ok to double pull these. They ww the melee dps goes down in seconds, we end up killing them with just me and the tank alive. The tank hassles the melee for not getting out of the melee fast enough, we res and rebuff, and the tank does it again. Everybody goes in down in about 5 seconds “fail” from the tank and he and 2 dps leave. We get a 53k hp tank who single pulls and finish the rest of it with zero problems.

    A destro lock is supposed to use rain of fire, But i have tested all the aoe’s as desto, They all take too long to ramp up. I do 10k single target in icc and 3k or less on heroic trash with other good dps. /shrug.


  14. Wow, that really struck a chord with me! I, too, got tired of dealing with jerks on my 80. I also got tired of people acting like jerk 80s on my lil 62 twink druid. I decided to take a break from the randoms and leveled up my dwarf BM hunter. My hunter twink is currently lvl 71, has nearly every hunter-friendly BoA toy known to dwarfkind, and is happily working on her reputation with Kurenai and Netherwing for mounts. I’ve been having fun doing it. And getting a whole lotta ore for my engineering. (Which I’m saving up to make the epic flying machine.)


  15. I was only doing HC’s. No time for raids now a days, so my time was spend doing HC’s.
    Then I got a bit tired of this and got some heirlooms and lvled a few alts. And of course when they hit 80 I did some HC’s so I got 2/4 pieces of T9.
    When I had 7 chars at 80, 1 at 74, one at 71 and my bank alt at 38 I told my guild that I am rerolling and dropping out probably until Cat.
    And I rerolled on another horde server.
    Got a DKl, got a few 100 golds and put him in Undercity as a bank alt.
    Then I rolled a druid (again). But this time with the sole purpose of never do damage as feral. Gave him some big bags and let him be leatherworker/skinner.
    At 30 I was so tired of him. I had a lot of feral gear and was on my verge to decide to go feral for the next 10 lvls. But instead I just parked him for a while and started a pally instead (as tank. Can’t loose all my tank skills, can I?)
    Got him up a bit. A pain tanking before lvl 20 (should have specced ret for a while).
    Realised that I had problems getting enough skins/ores for my profession. Noticed that when my lazorchicken started to need a lot of thick leather. So I started a hunter as my farm toon.

    A couple of things that do surprise me.
    Those heirloom alts on lower leve (under 48) is often doing less damage than chars without any heirlooms.
    A lot of people have no clue about their toon. As an example, there has been nobody being able to beat my hunter on the charts (as long as they are not higher lvl) and I don’t really play the hunter to its fully potensial.
    You do see tanks that should never have entered a dungeon. Had one today. An arms warrior (no shield) decked in heirlooms. We were in Maura and he had a “slight” problem keeping aggro. Even with rage. As an example. He has a single target. I wait one GCD, then I FFF, Swarm and MF the mob…….. and started to run in circle around the tank with the mob after me (hate it when they are immune to root) After I was nearly dead, I saw his first taunt. I guess he suddenly found it. Because he had not used it when the healer was pounded to death a few pulls earlier. At last he did the usual tank trick that bad tanks often do. Pull a boss and then leave. Which was no problem. The 3 dps’s where kind of playing pingpong with him and the healer kept us up.

    Hmm, seems like I am rambling.
    What I am trying to say, is that I have never regretted to leave (temporarly) my old server and level from scratch on a server where I don’t know anyone and nobody knows me 🙂


  16. I have tried all the different tacts in Heroics. I have tried being nice and chatty, i have tried being helpful offering advice, and i have even tried being an asshat myself but the only thing that truely helps me enjoy the game is to say nothing. I zone in and say Hi and thats it, i will say nothing more through out the whole run. I think that this is a real shame though, as the biggest part of the game for me at least was the social aspect. I enjoyed running Heroics in Burning Crusade because you was almost guaranteeed of finding friendly people from your server that you enjoyed playing the game with. Before long you had a nice long list of people on friends list that meant you could always find people to run with. I personally think that the LFD tool is to blame for the change though. People can now act however they like in HC’s because they have no fear of reprisal from people in calling them out in /trade. In fact its quite fun to whisper someone who has been a right plank in a HC and have them almost visibly be shocked because they didnt realise you was from the same realm as them 🙂

    I say carry on doing the things you like doing but shutout the twats, its easily done and you are almost guaranteed of enjoying the game but without the stress 🙂


  17. Haha … we were just talking about this yesterday when i semi-pugged a group with my pally tank – I went with 3 guildees and 2 pugs joined us, both high GS, one a kingslayer. The first thing the Kingslayer said was “omg, I have more health than the tank lol” – all three of us said something rather pointed back, along the lines of “you know where the exit is”, my OH (on a boomkin) being particularly pointed in his remarks. The kingslayer was rather taken aback – “not sure how to take that coming from a chicken” – after that we had a cool run, simply taking the piss out of each other.

    Another run, only me and one other guildee, running heroic Pit of Saron (I think .. the first of the “new” 5 mans?) – the tank was dreadful. In fact, the whole group of puggers were dreadful – the only one I ended up not healing frantically was my guildmate, who had the common sense NOT to get aggro. First boss in there – the one where you kite him away from the blue fuzzy soul thing? – he decided that he would actually, after all, tank everything he could see – so kept TAKING THE BOSS to the soul jobby and healing him up. I actually spent a moment out of healing (I don’t care if he dies now!) to call him an idiot. The only reason I stayed til the end was because I was there to help my guildmate. However, if I’d been there by myself, I would have dropped group. After letting the tank get way ahead and pull stuff without checking to see where I was, again. At the last boss of that one, the tank insisted on standing in the purple puddles – perhaps he thought it was a weird version of Twister. And after that, he had the audacity to immediately queue us up for another instance … or try at least – he got dropped quicker than hot poo.

    The majority of runs I do, involve no puggers AT ALL. If I have to, I don’t mind too much if there are just one or two strangers in the group, because we can gossip about them in-guild 😛


  18. I also feel for you mate. I have 3 max level ICC25 geared healers all sitting on a shelf as I have retreated to only playing with my guild which is what I think has happened to a lot of people. We were quite fortunate in that we were slow to get into ICC 10 and are now enjoying the hard modes (7/12) while everyone else is a bit burnt out so this is the first time being late to the party has been an advantage for me.

    After reading your blog I have been levelling a bear/tree for the first time and one thing I have noticed is that the high gs raiders are less and less on my server (EU Saurfang) doing the RFD runs as they are probably swimming in EOF anyway. This has led to a vastly improved experience as you gear up with similar ilevel characters. I must add lastly that I have found the level of idiots to be far less than I hear people talking about on other servers, I do not think for a minute this is beacause it is a European server as we are more than capable of rudeness but we do not have a massive raiding population, in fact the more competitive guilds have transferred off. I think this may be the answer.

    So in summary I pose this question as a raider:

    Are raiders in fact arseholes?

    By this I mean the statistic obsessed idiots that are attracted to 25 man raids.



  19. Hey BigBearButt,

    Been following your blog for some 2 weeks now and it’s fun to read – I even did some backtracking
    on old posts. The reason I started was that I’ve been levelling my own druid together with my wife’s warrior
    and was looking for some sorely needed druid advice! Needless to say, your blog is a very good starting

    My main is a priest that is geared quite well and I have some alts that are not geared that well. Whenever
    i’m in a heroic (and it really does not matter with what toon) I try to gauge the atmosphere of the group.
    I never ditched one, though I have been kicked out of a group 1 or 2 times just for slacking in dps. I must
    say I don’t even mind being kicked, but why do people never give a reason. Suddenly you are out of the
    instance because some tank gets it in his head that he is “über” and does not need to spend his time with
    lowgeared measly me…. If i’m in an instance I try to perform to the best of my gears ability. On my priest
    that is easy (time enough to throw in some dps now and then). On the others I have to work a lot harder,
    but that is the challenge….

    At this point in time I do heroics only when I feel I want to do the effort – emblems, gear and such are all
    nice, but trying out new stuff, getting away from the ICC-healing-stress and looking for some fun with people
    are the thing i’m looking for – needless to say i’m sometimes disappointed. But i’ll keep going!

    Now – when my druid hits 80 I hope that i’ll be one of the good tanks….. Keep your fingers crossed for me!

    Kind regards,


  20. The battered hilt dropped for me on my shaman. It was the first and only drop I’d ever seen out of the 100s of heroics I’d run on my battery of alts. I rolled, not even expecting to win it. Much like you I debated who I should allocate it to, and much like you I went for the non-hardcore option and gave it to my druid because she was my LoreMaster and if there was one quest line she should have under her belt, this was it.

    It just so happens that my druid is my main, but really that’s what finally made the decision for me.


  21. My basic rule of the LFG tool is this – you get one warning that you’re being an asswipe & then I’ll leave the group. No dramatics, no persuading someone to chage their ways, nothing but a ‘Sorry, this isn’t working out, see you around’ and drop.

    It’s just not worth it, especially with a stable of alts and no real need for the daily heroic on most of them. Do the good runs outweigh the bad? Yeah, even when I queue on the DK to make repair money after a hard day wiping in raids I seem to get mostly good groups. And lets be honest – a good tank, or a good healer, can compensate for a lot of silly behaviour. Good DPS – well, it’s harder, but every now and then you’ll see a hunter trapping mobs or a warlock fear kiting and you think ‘Yeah, they can play their class’

    However, if I see someone having trouble DPSing, or healing in the wrong spec, or not managing to pickup all the mobs while tanking, does it annoy me?

    No. I actually kinda LIKE healing a really bad tank, I actually have to think about things again : ). When I leave the group is when someone’s just being a dick, plain and simple.

    Odd really. I can deal with someone being incompetent but trying much easier than someone who’s a good player but has an attitude problem.


  22. I’m having fun leveling alts in SAN over on Argent Dawn. It gets quiet there at times, like anywhere during an expansion, but a nicer crowd you won’t find anywhere. Check it out! Just stay away from Goldshire.


  23. This is that time in an expansion’s life cycle when it’s best to find solo ways to entertain yourself. I’m still using the Random Dungeon Finder, but the experience seems to have gotten worse in the past couple months. All I can say is, there are people out there who don’t seem to enjoy playing with other people, but they do it anyway because they feel they have to for those measly two Frost badges.


  24. This last week or so I have been chain running heroics. I have a wish list of heirlooms I want to get for my planned Cataclysm levelling. It works quite well to queue as DPS and grind Wintersaber rep in the 5-15 minute waiting gap between instances.

    I’ve had some good ones like the one were the tank ended up soloing the whirlwinding 1st boss in Nexus with me healing as often as my mana ticked up enough so I could send off a heal. The tank was a bit ropey (he struggled keeping aggro in multi-pulls) and the healer was worrying me at times (though I am a backseat healer, so…). I was convinced we’d get people dropping group or the very least do some serious name calling when the tank proceeded to charge the group on Telestra’s platform and pulling her with it (wiping us). But no, people just explained to him that he needs to pull them back rather than charge in.

    Some bad ones, like the one with 3 people from the same guild in Culling of Stratholme. The warrior DPS is still in IF, but the tank starts working on trash anyway. Warrior finally deigns to join us in the middle of the Meathook fight and promptly dies as he ran straight in while the healer was chained. Once he was rezzed his comment to the healer was “Learn to heal”. The healer said “I was chained”. To which the warrior said “Learn to heal”. The healer droppped group and so did I. Sure I got a debuff – but I don’t want to play with people that treat others like that.

    It definitely feels like there are more lower geared people playing atm though. On my shadow priest I am often low on DPS as things die to quickly for my DoTs to do much damage, but lately I have been in several groups where I’ve done 30-40% of the damage done – so things are definitely living longer. I don’t really mind either way. One way is fast, the other way I get to quietly gloat to myself that for once I top the damage meters (would never happen when raiding with my guildies) – like you say – one has to take one’s fun where one can find it. 🙂


  25. I switched to almost entirely guild runs quite some time ago. At the very least, guild tank and healer (healing on my druid the other day and the guild tank I was running with was getting irritated by a pug elemental shaman that could not control his aggro worth a damn, hitting Chain Lightning before the tank even reached the mobs, that kind of thing – the tank advocated letting him die a few more times to see if he would learn anything, while I was actually having fun seeing if I could keep the shammy alive in spite of what he was doing. An ICC geared tank in Heroic Culling of Stratholme is not particularly challenging to heal, even with my relatively dodgy healing gear, so it was actually kind of fun having something else to focus on)

    So yeah, I log into the game to play with my friends in guild, or to fool around doing solo stuff. I *may* jump into the occasional pug or random BG, but those are rare, and I generally go in with low expectations anyway (although Bloodlust seems to be a moderately competent battlegroup in general, perhaps an artefact of it containing so many launch day servers).

    One of the things I do like about my guild is that we see participation as more important than progression. While there is a core raid group trying for Kingslayer (currently at 11/12), they actually run their raids over two weeks, so that other nights are free for guild activities like the raid weekly, VoA runs and a non-progression run through ICC on the weekend (that usually aims for 6/12, but sometimes manages 7 or 8 if there’s enough DPS in the group). This works particularly well with so many altoholics in the guild – the non-progression runs mean they can swap to different toons to gear them up without feeling like they’re letting anyone down.

    I’d extend the same invite as LP (to wander over to Proudmoore and look me up), but we’re a primarily Australian guild so I expect the times we generally play would be pretty lousy from your point of view.


  26. BBB,
    I had reached a similar conclusion and advised my guildies that they would not be seeing my tank probably till Cata comes out. What I had realised was I was willing to take a lot of crap while I was tanking to get my druid bear to be the best he could be, but now that I’m all frosted up and in 4t10, the only upgrades I’ll get are from ICC and RS raids and trying to find a PuG raid group that works for that sort of content is very few and far between – and you have a weeks downtime if they manage the 1st boss and then fall apart 😦
    I imagine that the stock answer to the above problem is to join a raiding guild, but as a mature player who has kids and a wife that are much higher priorities than any game, I can’t/don’t want to commit the time that the guilds I’ve seen demand.
    Also made me laugh to see that I’m not only one going back to leveling an alt – I have only ever really had my druid (kids have dozens of alts, but I had so far remaind ‘above’ this) – but I’ve now got a hunter to level 30 and really enjoyin quests that I last saw over 18 months ago.
    At the end of the day, it made me remember what I liked about WoW – the flexibility to play in different ways, that I had “blanked out” in my slavish determination to get my bear to the top of the tree, only to realise that the point of the game, like life, is “its a journey not a destination”.
    And what I’ve found – when I list of LFD with my ickle hunter, there is SOOOO much less hassle and bitchin in the groups, and everyone just plays!
    Guess what I’ve realised is the only thing that was making WoW not fun anymore was what I was trying to do – the funs still there if I look for it.


  27. The exact same reason my two 80’s are collecting dust on another server. It got to be a pain running heroics with Asshats. I never thought about taking gear off to get in lower groups also so I would constantly be running HOR or Pit. But my one server is all alliance toons I moved to another server and started all Horde toons, and even have a feral bear on a PVP server that I started, just curious how different it was. But way to many asshat 80’s who are bored and feel that ganking a level 30 is fun. So that one also is collecting dust. I look forward to cat because I again get to start off leveling new char’s like a worgen, goblin, etc.. If it wasn’t for my wife I would consider WOW a single player game now, but the two of us rock, whether its our two priest combo or warrior mage combo or priest pally combo. All rock nothing like the two of us finishing those require 3 player quests with just the two of us. Or very slowly 2 manning a dungeon with a healer tank combo avoiding many asshats in the LFG.


  28. “Make it the equivalent of the biggest single player game filled with random bots ever seen.”

    I’ve played it like that from day one. Then again, I’m weird.

    I’m actually more social out of game, like the Raid events and blog blathering. It’s easier to find good people that way.


  29. Sounds like a break may be in order. My feelings have been that the 5 man game is broken. Terribly broken. I’ve leveled 5 alts to 80 and have had my most fun in the normal dungeons…you know, those places where your lack of gear makes the adversity something challenging? I’ve had reasonable luck lately in heroics and I’m attributing that to a few things: avoiding weekend daytime “kiddy time” play and the fact that most ICC raiders are pretty much done with EOF’s.

    Anyway, feel good about the Battered Hilt…the quest line rocks and that’s a great experience. As far as playing the 5 man game, I would really think that if that is where your enjoyment of the game is, then don’t do it while everyone is bored and the LFD tool has destroyed it. Maybe some /2 recruiting “at level heroic runs”…you get rid of the epeen gearmeisters and you’ve upped your odds of a good group considerably. Oh, liberal ignoring of the bad folks too…my theory is that if you aren’t running with them, you’ve upped your odds of running with other people who aren’t running with other idiots and perhaps, just perhaps, this may be why my heroic runs currently aren’t filled with frustration?

    Ah, but I ramble. Anyway. I bet that the 5 man game is gonna be spot on at the release of cataclysm and through the first two tiers of raid content. After that, unless Blizzard introduces an “i’d rather be challenged, thank you” option to the LFD tool, I’d say its gonna break again sometime after that. And either other fun should be had in game, or suspending the account until you’re inclined to reactivate…or the expansion after cataclsym comes out?

    Bottom line, for me, is that I don’t look for my wow satisfaction – in either performance as an individual, or the great feeling you get when a group pulls together against adversity – at the 5 man level. I’m lucky to have a great group of people who are in ICC and I can work on my tanking, healing, and DPS there and enjoy the gear. Everything in the 5 mans is a yawner. Unless its an appropriately geared alt that is!

    Hope something in this helps. I feel your pain!


  30. Cassie, having long ago decided the same thing, tells me that I need to start queueing with my weapons and shoulders unequipped, cutting down on my apparent gearscore, so I’ll have a better chance at running with lower ranked players.

    I hear conflicting reports about whether this works. Some say LFD groups you with people with similar gear, others say it tries to match low-geared characters with high-geared players. Maybe the low 4000s is the median of the latter algorithm.

    Supposedly it weights the dungeons by difficulty and matches that to your gear–lower gear would get you Utgarde Keep more often, but higher gear would push you toward more ICC 5-mans. I hear about a lot of undergeared characters repeatedly put in over their heads in the Halls of Reflection, though.


  31. “But aside from a kick ass weapon… do I really need Heirlooms? What’s the rush to get to 80?”

    I played for 2 years before I got my first level 80. I had heard the refrain “the game doesn’t start until 80” many times but I had my doubts. Which were half-realized. Yeah, it is nice getting fancy, purple armor. But I’m not a raider and other than that, you are just doing the same things over and over and over again, whether they be dailies or heroics. My small guild is tipping its toes into the raiding pool – both wrath and older ones – just now, but end-game just isn’t that exciting to me.

    Related to that, before I even reached 80, I was discouraged at how quick the experience points accumulated. I hated seeing quests go to green then grey and being faced with choices of continuing chains/zones and “wasting time” by not getting experience or dropping them and just moving on. I’m not sending xp heirlooms to my alts.


  32. As much as I love all your posts… this kind is my favorite. Reminds me that I’m not the only one dealing with jerks in the game.

    After playing since the beginning of WoW and raiding at 60, then at 80, I too am burnt out and just looking for people who are competent to play 5-man Heroics. I’m gearing a new holy priest at the moment and get the typical… “oh… an undergeared healer…” response at the beginning of most runs. I have taken to asking my husband to tank for me in his 6k gear just to have a tank who’s not ignoring my miniscule mana pool and pulling a room at a time, while not bothering to actually “tank” anything. All the players we get with over 5k gear scores make pithy comments the entire run. Sadly, I’m finding that even lower geared “alts” who have mains with high gear scores are uppity…one more tangle in the sticky web of WoW.

    Thank you for your posts… serious, funny, political, rational, venting… your writing is a joy to read.


  33. BBB i totally agree with your questioning about whether to keep playing or not. The asshats that i get grouped with via lfg repeatedly astond me. Just the other day i got on my disc priest and my gf was on her combat rogue both of which we havent played since the days of Naxx. So undergeared as we were (i wasnt even at 4k) we still tried for a heroic.and we got hfos. As soon as we entered i told everyone i havent healed in almost a year and to please take it easy. Our marvelous 6.3k gs dk tank replied with ‘fuck you’. I was astonished that anyone could be so concieted that they didnt need a i decided at that point to only heal him if he was about to die and death strike wasnt healing him enough. Every one else had their pw:s up as fast as i could spam it on every one and i kept renews up as needed unless it was the tank…he only got the occaisional penance. We get to the first boss and i didnt even heal him…he swithed to dps popped his army and the boss was dead in less than 45 sec. He knew what he was doing just was an asshole about it all. Next ime i get greeted in a foul way i will go out of my way to make the tank have as many issues as possible until he understands one of the golden lfg rules…the healer is just as important as the tank.


  34. John, your post is making me want to rant. . .

    I often hear folks say the Gearscore does not equal skill. I am a firm proponent of this thought. As a matter of fact what I have seen most in game is as gearscore escalates so does elitism, and asshattery, as play becomes increasingly more lazy. I am knocking on the door of 6K GS (5960) and I even occasionally find myself feeling compelled to become lazy and callous. Once I hung the “Kingslayer” title over my head I started to realize that on one hand there wasn’t much more for me to do, and on the other hand once Cataclysm hits, everything that I’ve done will mean nothing. What ensues is a strange feeling of angst and restlessness.

    Sure I can still do stuff, but why? I’ve done it before, and that really cool gear that drops is going to be dog poo the day Cata releases. I think that lots of end gamers are feeling this and for some it is exploding into a very unhealthy in game mentality.

    On my server, Whisperwind, the top progression raiding guild, Obsolete, just broke up. The postmortem that is being circulated on trade chat is, “When you have done everything in game, what else is there to do?”

    But wait, there is hope:

    Last night I queued with three of my well-geared Guildies; I was in my Balanced spec. We three DPS can knock down huge numbers and pretty much waltz through all the heroics. We were with one of our Resto Druids that heals like crazy. All we needed was a tank, and pretty much any tank would do.

    We found ourselves in Heroic Nexus with a Warrior Tank that couldn’t have dinged 80 more that two days ago, very under geared but surprisingly good at holding aggro, even with a boomie and a lock in the middle of an AOE fest. In the hall with that silly Commander dude, the tank started suggesting strategy, “Okay target the dark. . .blah blah”. . . I forget. After I blew up the whole place in a starfall and a few Hurricanes, I chatted back, sorry who was I supposed to target? He Lol’ed I lol’ed and the group all had a good laugh. Then he asked, “Since you guys are so good, do you think that we could do Split Personality?” Well I said “sure.” As a mater of fact we will do all the achievements. This turned a boring ho hum run into something worth doing, not cause I needed the achievements, I already had them, but because our group could do something for this lower level player. By the end we got him his achievements plus his achievement for heroic Nexus, yes it was his first run. Not to mention some gear that will really help him on his way. He is going to remember that run for a very long time, and it made me feel better than anything I have done in game for a very long time.

    So I hereby challenge all who have a gearscore of 5K+ to become the champions of the lower geared, run the extra bosses, do the achievements, help them to feel good about the game, and make a positive impact. Am I dreaming?


  35. This is pretty far down in the comments, so I don’t think anyone is really going to read it, but I felt like sharing my views on your experiences.

    I am a tank, I tank dungeons. I have a few other classes that I occasionally play if I can sucker my wife to play her tank, but I am almost always the one driving the car, so to speak. I almost have 6k gs on my druid tank. Probably 90% of the instances I join, people see my gearscore and decide to go balls to the wall crazy. And guess what, they’re all around 6k GS too. Those are probably the worst instances to tank, and I think about dropping group every time. But I usually don’t. I sit quietly and tank to the end unless someone says something about my tanking. Then all bets are off and I usually will drop group after my tirade and making sure we aren’t in a bad spot.

    But the most endearing groups, the ones that I always enjoy, those are the runs with the low gearscore people, the ones with blues on and half a clue. I like to take my time tanking, I like to do all the extra bosses because skipping them seems like cheating. I sit and wait between pulls so people have an out of combat break if they want to drink. I clear to the group’s pace every time, and it is one of the things I pride myself on. When I can sit and enjoy the game I love, then I am happy. I am not happy when people blow their cooldowns before I’ve even hit the mobs. I’m not happy when I am in a run and my taunt button is on CD more than half the time. I’m not happy when DPS are pulling more mobs while I am still on the previous pack.

    Basically, 90% of the time I am not happy doing randoms. I see all these people complain about how tanks are so self entitled, and how they’re jerks, etc. Well, they’re probably like me, jaded by the constant asshats you see in random groups. Now, there are certainly tanks out there like the one you described in that Gundrak run that are just being assholes for the hell of it. Maybe he’s a kid and doesn’t know the proper way to tank because noone is on vent telling him what to do. But, maybe that guy was a nice guy and liked tanking, and maybe he just doesn’t have skin as thick as mine (aka stubborn). Maybe now he just criticizes everyone and his tanking suffered because he just doesn’t care anymore.

    Something to think about.


  36. I’m really feeling you here, BBB. Recently I’ve started playing my feral more, getting him to 80 and geared up for tanking, and a lot of the time I’ve been getting shit for his gear and being unable to keep aggro off multiple T10-geared dps (most often mages). It really keeps calling into question just how much I want to deal with other people’s crap. Even got kicked before the first boss in Gundrak the other day after a wipe, when the shaman and druid (same guild) swapped who was doing healing/dps, and the druid just didn’t even try to keep me up (UI showed virtually nothing in the way of incoming heals). This wasn’t a gear fail on my part… there’s just no excuse for having 3 stacks of poison on me with EITHER of those two classes doing the healing. People are expecting to be carried through even the most basic instances on T10 tanks and healers, and have no concept of threat control anymore. I keep finding myself waiting and hoping for Cata to show them just how bad they really are.

    Cassie, having long ago decided the same thing, tells me that I need to start queueing with my weapons and shoulders unequipped, cutting down on my apparent gearscore, so I’ll have a better chance at running with lower ranked players.

    Unfortunately, that doesn’t work. The game uses everything in your bags and on your character to determine your top gear level. Just picked up a new pair of bracers yesterday for my cat dps setup and it unlocked heroic HoR, despite neither cat nor bear gear being sufficient to do that place.


  37. I came to the realization that I don’t really want the MM in MMORPG. What I really want is an rpg game that allows me to play cooperatively with my spouse.

    Too many of the LAN sized games are competitive. The only LAN sized game that scratched this itch was Neverwinter Nights, but even there playing as a duo was a bit of a hack. A fact that became very obvious when hordes of the Underdark was released.


  38. I feel the need to post a reply, I don’t do it very often but I just felt like I should post some kind of light at the end of the tunnel.
    The LFD asshattery and elitism can be bad, infact I can’t stand it, but since I really really really badly wanted to raid I had to put up with it, it gets worse as you do raids of course. I was and still am a very capable tank (Was tanking in BC and absolutely loved it, ain’t touched my warlock since), but it’s hard to break into raiding, so what I’ve been trying to do is hold together a guild that is half social, half serious. We’re having trouble with find a core 10 to keep doing icc10 with. We’ve downed 11/12 and we just don’t have the commitment to learn LK tactics. Just don’t give up completely, because there is alot of fun out there, but since I have 5/6 people who are an absolute joy to raid/instance with 24/7 I rarely have to put up with asshats. Although I tend to find that I give as good as I get.
    I think so many lose sight of the fact that this is a game, do what you want, and have fun. If anyone wants to start on a new server, and wants to know someone is around (I’d happily drop a few g’s for a kind stranger who just moved to my server) come over to Burning Steppes (Horde). Think positive and I’m sure eventually things will work out if people are grating to much, go play Fable :D!
    Xaeth, Burning Steppes.


  39. We’ve all had moments like that, although, I find that on my server the ones with gear are the only ones who aren’t asshats.

    #17/25 on the dps meter making fun of my hunter for wielding Rowan’s rife because it’s a tanking gun (I was #3/25).
    A freshly dinged 80 DK in a heroic doing 335 dps with outdated spells being carried by the tank “because he’s a guildie”.
    Being kicked by a HoR group just prior to a boss kill to remove competition for loot (prior to it being fixed).
    DPS rolling needing on offspec items that the tank needs because they feel they’re entitled.
    The list goes on.

    I keep out of heroics these days with the exception of my alts. Everything else, I do with my guild or my friend’s guild.


  40. I think Wrath did the game a disservice in that it a) allowed many people to have levels of gear that they never would have normally and b) dumbed things to down to make it relatively easy. With the game being made easier, those less mature players have free reign to gloat and parade around in their loot and gear and to also never really learn how to play their class properly.

    I firmly believe in choice and consequences and I just sigh and finish my badge runs with my toons and ignore the obnoxious little kids. A guildie of mine once remarked about the attitudes and elitism in game by saying “You can’t expect to go to a nursery and not smell a dirty diaper or two”. If you put yourself in that situation then you have to accept it.

    I can’t wait for Cataclysm and heroics that actually might be “heroic”. I hope Blizz keeps the difficulty of the mobs in Beta as they move it to Live. I hope the dungeons require all the classes to open their pantries and get out Hex, Frost Trap, Enslave, Banish, Mind Control, Sap, Shackle, Hibernate, etc. I hope Gearscore goes away to stop the Its the nature of the game for people to not appreciate what they didn’t have to work for.


  41. I would disagree that there are a lot of jerks out there. Having run dozens upon dozens (maybe even a few hundred) heroics since the dungeon finder launched, my impression is that most people are nice and do their jobs well enough in a group setting. Of course there are always under-performers but we all were at some point.

    (Although on the last point I have to admit I was surprised the other day while running with a dps DK who was wearing ilvl 251, 264 gear and was doing only 600dps)

    I’ve had my fair share of assholes and the ones who piss me the most are tanks who pull a whole room intentionally and then leave group. I had such a retard just last night who summoned his army of ghouls and pulled the boss along with all the other mobs in the room, then simply dropped group.

    To be honest I don’t know what drives these people. I guess it’s their way to have fun. But we can be certain of one thing: there’s a high chance that they’re assholes in real life too and I just feel pity for their pathetic lives if they choose to vent their frustrations in such ways.

    My way of dealing with asshole tanks (or other types) is to add them to my ignore list. Thank goodness for that.


  42. I guess I’m fortunate in that I get do randoms mainly with my guildies. With the exception of my DK (serious tank shortage in the guild) getting to max lvl as quickly as possible has never been my goal. On my first character I almost exhausted Kalimdor of quests, pvped a ton, and wandered the world. Took me about 8 months to reach 80 but I had fun. Took my warrior quite a while to hit 80 too but then again I pvped with that toon to the point I had a mailbox full of marks. Working on my shaman now I think they’ll be at 80 around the time cataclysm drops. But I’m going to be queuing for the harder vanilla dungeons before I hit 60 and when I get to outlands I plan on doing the same for the ones I’ve yet to run at level. And when I’m done I’ll have 3 80s but 2 tanks, 2 melee DPS, 2 ranged DPS and a healer so that the odds of my guildies and I ever having to pug someone for a dungeon run at max level will be as close to zero as possible.


  43. I have found joy and fun on Argent Dawn, with Single Abstract Noun. As people above me in comments already mentioned, I started treating the game as single player, with one really fun instant message channel – that being guild channel. The European branch of SAN usually has 10 – 20 people on line, which is more than enough for occasional random heroic or another kind of instance. Everyone is an altoholic, and people enjoy the journey.

    I still log into my main’s server, but that’s mostly for some AH action because I’m slowly going for gold cap there. And yes, it’s fun for me 🙂


  44. I noticed a pattern while LFDing with my resto druid. Any toon wearing the “starcaller” title was 95% of the time a total jerk. I’d start swearing when I got a tank with the title, as I knew it wasn’t going to be a nice run. My hubby found it hilarious that I dreaded someone with a title that indicated they’d done a hard boss – I find the attitude that comes with the title to be poor. I find the silent majority that goes along with the vote kicks to be disappointing as well.


  45. Aww thanks Wind 🙂 I love the leveling part and you still get idiots at the lower levels. I got told on my lvl 44 mage that I was just in ZF to be carried cause i was lowest dps, go figure. On Ely i’m just happy if my dps is higher than the tanks but i still have fun. I told them I like to wait for the tank to have agro so I don’t gel killed, they said I don’t have to wait at all if my aoe’s don’t do any damage to the mobs at all (we were pulling scarabs, tank runs ahead and with swipe by the time i get there they were almost all dead anyway 😛 ) I said fine I’ll be an ass and pull mobs and do dmg before the tank is even ready or anywhere near them, they said not to worry that I was gone anyway and to have fun being carried thru the game. They were from Maiev so I went and posted on their forums about how pitiful they were specced and glyphed and that they should learn how to play their toons before dissing anyone else.

    I do agree that you should try rerolling on a new server for fun and to get away from it all, and with the real ID thing from blizz I can still talk to hubby back on KT where he’s having fun with his horde toons 🙂


  46. Hey there, long time reader, first time poster! I wanted to say that I hear ya, sometimes I get fed up with all those pesky other people in the game. I’ve been leveling a feral druid tank (using your advice, it’s been great), and I’m way too timid about my abilities to use the LFG tool with that toon (actually, more my memory than anything else…I have a terrible memory, and it’s impossible for me to remember all the different things the different mobs in different dungeons do, so I’d be a terrible leader/tank. 😦 ). I mainly use my druid tank to help out a friend of mine who has trouble playing her Mage. She really keeps me on my toes, it’s great tank practice! 🙂

    My main, Grizelda, is a rogue. I’m a casual raider, managed to get a good way into ICC before my freelance work went nuts over the summer, but my gear is decent. I wanted to share a story with you, about a time me and 2 other guildies queued up together. All 3 of us were DPS, so the wait was a while. When it finally popped, we set to work…and immediately noticed we had a bit of a problem.

    The warrior tank…as far as we could figure out…was not using any of his abilities. I was doing my usual thing of keeping Tricks of the Trade up on the tank each time it came off cooldown, but soon I realized this wasn’t just a courtesy…it was a necessity! Our guild chat got more and more incredulous as we were comparing notes (“he’s got a full rage bar!” “Is he doing anything?” “I swear, I’m doing Tricks of the Trade every time it’s up…I *AM* his aggro!”). I was running around like crazy, popping Tricks and pulling mobs off the healer, everything was pretty crazy (but no wipes). After a while, we thought…wait…maybe this is his first time tanking?

    So after slogging through a good part of the dungeon this way, one of my guildies said politely in Party chat, “OK, hold on a minute…[name], we need you to start using Thunderclap when you run in.” After a short pause, the tank said, “Thunderclap?” We all groaned in guild chat, but kept going with it. It became obvious as we continued to talk with the tank that he was a) VERY new to the class, even with an 80, and b) not a native English speaker (so props to him for doing his best to talk with us!). The tank was very apologetic, and looked through his spell book, and we compared notes as to which spell he needed in his language. I hadn’t known before that run that if you shift click on a spell in your spellbook, it appears in chat in your native language! So we all had to do a little translation to help out.

    Slowly, patiently, we used the run to teach him how to tank. To this day I don’t know why the healer didn’t drop group…maybe he/she was as bemused as we were by the whole thing!

    By the end of the run, the tank was holding aggro pretty solidly, and had a basic grasp of how to do a quick AOE grab on a group of mobs, then how to hold onto them, how to Devastate, etc…and we cleared the whole thing! Afterwards, we all cheered and congratulated him, even the healer whom we didn’t know joined in and said it was a good run. We brushed off his apologies for his bad tanking, and wished him well as we said our goodbyes.

    To this day, I think that’s been my favorite random heroic. We had fun, cleared a dungeon, and helped someone become a better player. Yeah, it wasn’t a quick run, but who cares? 🙂


  47. Tanking really boils down to holding aggro while staying alive. If a tank can’t hold aggro, he isn’t doing his job. If DPS negligently pull aggro, they aren’t doing their job. This *usually* isn’t an issue for me as a healer except in heroic Halls of Reflection, where it can make it either very difficult or impossible.

    I have had the fortune not to be grouped with too many out-and-out asshats, I guess, but I’ve definitely had my share of behavior from people that boggles the mind. In the end, I just try not to run randoms more than I need, and enjoy the time I spend either playing the game single-player mode (i.e., leveling alts) or in raids with my guildies.


  48. Yes, as Ngita and Erthshade said, you can’t fool the LFD by equipping lower ilevel gear. Even “valid” changing of gear: one leveled as DPS but now are in healing/tanking spec, and the heal/tank set is waaaaayyy lower than the DPS gear, means one still gets put into dungeons based on the DPS gear.

    And my hubby’s experience of getting matched to dungeons almost seems inversely based on gear… His 5k+ characters see the ICC 5s once in a blue moon, but it seemed his new 80 got slung into FoS every other dungeon. He refused to do the quests to unlock the other two until he felt adequately geared to heal them, even though LFD thought his gear was good enough.

    It would certainly be nice if LFD looked at what you had equipped. Dual specs seem to get especially busted there.


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